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AI in cheat shocker horror

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Crdnl Richelieu, Dec 20, 2005.

  1. Crdnl Richelieu

    Crdnl Richelieu Warlord

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    On Prince level, on an island with the Americans to the West, me in the middle, and the Englisht to the East...

    I play with "Show Enemy and Friendly" moves turned on, so I can see what they're all up to (and let me tell you, usually it's no good). Anyway, first foray the US make into my territory is with 3 axemen. Oh-oh, I thought, this guy's on a mission.

    However, he wasn't coming to give me a shoeing.. he sauntered past my cities, into the English territory, and made a beeline for the easternmost tip, where there was a Barbarian City slap bang next to some iron...(I know this cos I'd just discovered it. I sent down a squad to take it over, together with a Great Artist, but they got done).

    Anyway, how on earth did the US know it was there? The only way they could have known was if they'd had boats, which I'm almost sure they didn't. The only other way would be if Victoria had told them, but is that possible?
     
  2. AL_DA_GREAT

    AL_DA_GREAT amour absinthe révolution

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  3. Crdnl Richelieu

    Crdnl Richelieu Warlord

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    Map trading? Doesn't that require paper? The Americans are still wiping their arses on leaves, so that doesn't explain how they knew it was there.
     
  4. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    The AI does have some knowledge of resources in unexplored terrain, but I think it's been shown it doesn't know about cities that it shouldn't. There are several possibilities here though. Why are you so certain they had no boats? Do the English have paper and so could trade maps? Are you sure that an ancient American scout isn't still wandering round the English territory having gone over there at the start of the game? Is any religious scouting possible?

    There are plenty of ways the Americans could know about that city without 'cheating'.
     
  5. Crdnl Richelieu

    Crdnl Richelieu Warlord

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    English definitely didn't have maps and I'm almost sure that the Americans didn't have any boats or scouts. However, I could easily have been up making a cup of tea when the Americans sneaked a scout past so maybe I'm mistaken.

    Mind you, the city was slap bang next to some iron but you'd hardly send 3 Axemen down just to stand about and admire a clump of iron.

    And another thing which was weird, the English didn't seem too bothered about having a Barbarian city right next to her. They occasionally attacked the city with a single chariot, but never tried to take it over. It was almost as if she was waiting for the US to come over and take the city.

    Or maybe I'm just being paranoid! Cheers for the answer.
     
  6. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    I see the AI wander around at random with big stacks of units all the time. I'd be surprised to see them do anything else.
     
  7. HeadBlend

    HeadBlend Chieftain

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    There has been alot of anecdotal evidence that the AI knows where the resources are when they don't have the techs that reveal it. Haven't seen anything myself that suggests it, but from reports from others I assume that the AI does know.

    Many people have been puzzled by weird AI city placement that has been explained once resources have been revealed .....
     
  8. Fanaza

    Fanaza Warlord

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    I actually really disagree with this. In my experience with this game I've noticed it's more LUCK than anything. Sometimes the AI places cities in very bad, resource dry areas, and other times the AI gets lucky.

    And also -I- sometimes getting lucky later when resources pop up. I really do think the AI is just outright blind, but also smart enough to know that exploration is important. For instance ever notice that when you allow open borders, the AI almost always sends at least one stack with 3 units into your territory to explore it all, and also hunt for barbarian cities? The AI doesn't always find barbarian cities, but sometimes they get lucky--such as the situation mentioned in this pose, that of which I've seen repeated a few times in my games, while other times the AI totally misses the city.

    I've even laughed once when the AI exploration stack found a large open spot to the south of me. They were quick to deploy settlers to walk through my territory to get to that open area. It was too late though, since I dropped two settlers down there and filled out all the gaps with this. The AI, with it's 2 settlers and troops, continues to trek to this open spot though, even AFTER I claimed it, and upon getting there explored it, and then turned around. If that isn't proof the AI is blind, I don't know what is.

    And another very important point. Often if the AI is exploring it always has a settler ready somewhere, either in a ship or a town or even a fort, to quickly run to any open spots left. It's not the AI being able to see open spots and resources, it's just the AI knowing that expanding is important. (Ever notice that even in the modern age, when all the land is eatern up, the lower level AI's who have yet to explore the entire world, and even a few of the more advanced ones, always keep a few settlers waiting?)

    And also to explain strange AI city placement, I notice the AI likes dropping a city rather far from their territory, especially the expansive ones, so they can either block off another AI, or make the land between this city the capital easier to claim, a technique I've used many times myself.
     
  9. Puzzlinon

    Puzzlinon Insomaniac

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    There are posts about this AI-information bug on RB or somewhere... there is a bug with the AI's information, but it's not specifically about resource locations. The problem is that the terrain evaluator tells the AI the true value (potential production bonuses included) of land when there hidden resources under it. So it does tend to settle near hidden resources, just for the land value... it doesn't "know in advance" about the iron, but the city placement calculator weights placements near it highly because of the production value. It's an admitted (by Soren) bug, or so I've read.

    Back to topic, I've also seen the AI make some remarkable forays across continents to snarf up Barb cities. But the AI is so methodical about keeping its scouts and whatnot always on the move to maximize information, that I usually figure it's legitimate.
     
  10. zafyro

    zafyro Warlord

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    I suggest other option. It might be that you are under the influence of america´s religion so they can see in your territory.

    Also if america is nº 1 in your game or just has been harassed by barbs from that direction he might have sent a patrol to check the posbilities of finding a barb city to conquer... Or it´s not yo but the english have fallen under their evil religion.
     
  11. Crdnl Richelieu

    Crdnl Richelieu Warlord

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    For the first time, I'm actually the daddy of my continent. I own the religions, I say jump, America and England ask "How high?".

    To be frank, I think the likeliest explanation is that the US found the city early doors and I missed them trooping past me to scout out the other side of the island.
     
  12. Jantis

    Jantis Chieftain

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    Well... what you didn't know is that the English AI and the American AI were both on Teamspeak, so she just told him. Those AI can be really sneaky sometimes.

    :D
     
  13. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    Even if the AI explored that part of the map with their scout it's highly unlikely that a barbarian city requiring axemen to take would've been there during that initial exploration. The AIs seem to know the state of any land they've had revealed to them for all of time. How else can you explain them sending naval units half way around the world to pillage coastal resources outside their LOS or every AI in the game sending settlers to grab any land you free up via conquest.
     
  14. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    The human player does get to see any resources in areas that he has ever explored. Why wouldn't the AI get the same information?
     
  15. rcoutme

    rcoutme Emperor

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    As for the AI sending ships to pillage coastal improvements... I send ships to do the exact same thing! If there are fishies available to a civ, it is reasonable to assume (once you can cross oceans) that they are being harvested. I saw the AI send ships to pillage coastal improvements against another AI after I had already pillaged them.
     
  16. Cotton_Eyed_Joe

    Cotton_Eyed_Joe cookie monster

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    They probably sailed there before but not going through your territory but going around the world.
     
  17. hollebeek

    hollebeek Chieftain

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    The city founding advice suffers from the same bug. I've had it suggest
    bizzare settling locations, only to find out later that that was the only spot
    that would allow the city to use both copper and iron (neither of which I
    could see ...)
     
  18. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    I think this is untrue. People are good at spotting patterns where there are none. The AI suggests bizarre locations all the time, just because its algorithm isn't all that sharp.
     
  19. Aeek

    Aeek Chieftain

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    I've watched the AI ships navigate through an IMPASSABLE southern icecap,
    and there's working the fish outside their culture zones.
    Many little things. Does it matter?
     
  20. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    @Aeek, do you have screenshots of this? These are the kind of things which are almost invariably misunderstanding gameplay mechanics, since it would make no sense to program them in. I have never observed either of these two in any games I've played.

    For the icecap, submarines are allowed to cross them. Are you getting confused by two diagonally connected water tiles with a narrow strip of ice between them? Any unit can cross these.

    As for being able to work fish outside their cultural borders, no they can't. Even if they could it would be of no benefit to them, and in any case this is not the knid of rule the AI can break, since it would have to be deliberately programmed in.
     

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