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- Thread starter Siesta Guru
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Siesta Guru
Prince
y my problem was mod conflict to test of time mod, so stler problem is no buged here. but i need some mod to make game beter firaksix is fk lazi idiot and sell buged and no finish game agen cant play any civ out mod
Ah alright. Strange that the creator didn't seem to have the same problem.
There's only 'indirect' changes, no numerical tweaks. The biggest is that my operation teams place no melee/range unit amount restrictions on the AI. Which ends up revealing the AIs 'natural' tendency to balance these two. In vanilla, since there were much higher melee unit restrictions on the teams, it would be forced to choose melee units to fill up its operation slots.
If you want to tinker with things, you can either go back to the vanilla way of building teams and adjust required melee/range until you're happy, or you can try to go for the aifavoreditems system of unitpromotionclasses and set favored to true (should be an example somewhere in the vanilla xml for tomirys). Sadly doesn't seem to allow fine control there with values. It may also be worth experimenting with the system units, but my own tests to far seem to indicate that one doesn't do anything or very little.
One annoying side effect of the new way to build teams, is that it seems the AI doesn't really build any siege support units like rams without being forced to by the operations (by setting the minimum to at least 1). But forcing it to use these, means it suffers other problems like not being able to attack at all in many cases. Still trying to figure that one out. If you happen to see a good way to make them build these at appropriate amounts again let me know.
Edit: seems the rubber duck effect is doing its thing. Just got an idea that may be worth attempting. Creating a new unit type that includes both siege weapons and the better siege supports and some late era ranged units, and require one of those.
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now i tried on 4 leaf with immortal. And its the same again...I did not get attacked...im not ahead by scoreboard, but that my main city has like 15 ppl while two AI have 11...(my 2nd city has 12)...just shows me another izi won game/waste of time
Whats the problem there? How 4 leaf and 6 leaf is made? That as a human I know that map, which improves my strategy there? AI is fighting each other but im yellow with everybody.
Also why is doing AI so much worse with all their bonuses? Can you give an AI a fixed strategy? like go first industrial, then improve science/barracks/ get a lot of traderoutes. Im like always doing that strategy and its always working.
The "harder" games where when AI was really spamming religion and I had to attack first bc otherwise they d convert everything. Or when I like get attacked by AI pretty quickly in the game, or worse by 2 AI pretty much at the same time.
Whats the problem there? How 4 leaf and 6 leaf is made? That as a human I know that map, which improves my strategy there? AI is fighting each other but im yellow with everybody.
Also why is doing AI so much worse with all their bonuses? Can you give an AI a fixed strategy? like go first industrial, then improve science/barracks/ get a lot of traderoutes. Im like always doing that strategy and its always working.
The "harder" games where when AI was really spamming religion and I had to attack first bc otherwise they d convert everything. Or when I like get attacked by AI pretty quickly in the game, or worse by 2 AI pretty much at the same time.
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i pass 800 turn to this mod and to moment AI no atack me just stop nere my unit and w8 to die, but i hapy to work mod is feed me to enemy unit full time but need litele boost in agresion, trade from AI is broken i got lot stupid ask and is easy to tric IA to you somting from you to +00 on trice / only some time , keap working i realy w8 for new AI+, in furst 300 turn AI almost get one my town only rocks help me to save it
Playing on immortal, I did a bad job of preparing for Gilgamesh as a neighbor and he had me crushed, instead of exiting I let him continue attack, four war carts surrounded my city, but only one would attack each turn, instead of a 2 turn capture it took 6 or 7.
Morgawr
Civ Fanatic
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,235
So the winter patch is finally out.
Bad news = there are almost no improvements to the AI (only relavant one I noticed is "Improved AI Deal negotiations and analysis" which is great if they implemented it right)
Good news = It may not take you long to re-assess and re-test whether you want to keep all your modifications, since they didn't change much in the game files..
I will give the patched game a try w/o any mods
Bad news = there are almost no improvements to the AI (only relavant one I noticed is "Improved AI Deal negotiations and analysis" which is great if they implemented it right)
Good news = It may not take you long to re-assess and re-test whether you want to keep all your modifications, since they didn't change much in the game files..
I will give the patched game a try w/o any mods
Siesta Guru
Prince
Yeah it doesn't look like much changed in the winter patch. Seriously doubt there is anything I need to change.
I'm actually pretty excited though, because it includes two of the main problems I saw that I couldn't affect at all. The tech 'leaf nodes' issue, and redoing how trade deals are done. Have yet to test it out obviously.
Things are looking pretty nice for v9 btw. Did some pretty big further changes to the war behavior, and I think it's almost getting to the point that in ideal circumstances with a good amount of luck. An AI (probably Sumeria) may actually be able to win a domination victory. Which is a pretty big step up.
So far the best result I saw myself is Sumeria completely taking out 2 entire civs (France and Brazil) out of the 3 available, with about 7 city conquests involved. It would've also taken out the last player if it had actually declared war on the last and send troops in (which is a problem I'm currently working on)
Edit: So the file delnars_fixes got broken in the patch due to the patch since they fixed a missing melee tag on modern armor. So some of those changes in that file don't get loaded. I don't think that's a serious enough concern to require a hotfix but will have a look if anything else is weird in game.
I'm actually pretty excited though, because it includes two of the main problems I saw that I couldn't affect at all. The tech 'leaf nodes' issue, and redoing how trade deals are done. Have yet to test it out obviously.
Things are looking pretty nice for v9 btw. Did some pretty big further changes to the war behavior, and I think it's almost getting to the point that in ideal circumstances with a good amount of luck. An AI (probably Sumeria) may actually be able to win a domination victory. Which is a pretty big step up.
So far the best result I saw myself is Sumeria completely taking out 2 entire civs (France and Brazil) out of the 3 available, with about 7 city conquests involved. It would've also taken out the last player if it had actually declared war on the last and send troops in (which is a problem I'm currently working on)
Edit: So the file delnars_fixes got broken in the patch due to the patch since they fixed a missing melee tag on modern armor. So some of those changes in that file don't get loaded. I don't think that's a serious enough concern to require a hotfix but will have a look if anything else is weird in game.
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Siesta Guru
Prince
So I'm going to start looking at agendas a little. And I could use the advice of you guys.
I'm not going to completely overhaul these, but will instead just stick to some numeric tweaks. And for that I'm wondering which of these you have found to be the most unreasonable changes in attitude considering how doable their conditions are. Are there any in particular that stick out?
I'm not going to completely overhaul these, but will instead just stick to some numeric tweaks. And for that I'm wondering which of these you have found to be the most unreasonable changes in attitude considering how doable their conditions are. Are there any in particular that stick out?
Siesta Guru
Prince
It's happened, rarely, very rarely. So I'm afraid the answer is mostly no. v9 should increase the amount by a tiny bit, but yeah, nothing to be really scared of I'm afraid. Especially if you're ahead in techs. I don't really expect to be able to get there with the tools I have available either, it'll require a significantly more advanced AI to surmount the very high tech-based city combat strength scaling (which doesn't seem to be alterable)
Gort
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,518
Yeah, I definitely see the AI build air units in vanilla.
Hey Siesta. Thank you for putting in the work on this mod. I played a game with it pre-patch on immortal and enjoyed it. Though the AI continues to disappoint. I don't know if this has been brought up yet but to me the biggest issue with the AI is quite simple. It's just too chicken.
If it thinks it's going to lose a unit it almost always retreats. This is extremely counter productive at higher difficulties because the AI's greatest advantage is it's production bonus and ability to spam units and replace dead units much faster.
In my AI+ game at one point France had something like 20+ archers on my borders and at it just wouldn't attack. Which I decided to wipe her out, she would just retreat a lot.
Basically it's really easy to get the AI and even barbarians to back off. Just hurt the full HP units with archers. Once they are half health or even less they retreat.
I'm wondering if there is any way to script a little more bravery into the AI's decision making?
Like if they have X units in the area, don't retreat unless at less than 20% health, even if it means some units will die. Because killing that unit still costs and action and the other units in the area can still do damage.
The other thing I noticed early game is the AI's reluctance to attack cities directly. Often they will have 3-4 warriors near my city but instead focus on my units. Maybe it's afraid of me retaking the city.
Is there any way to make the AI focus on cities more? Barbarians almost seem more effective at this. Perhaps the AI war agenda could be manipulated to mimic this more?
Of course I'm talking blindly as I don't know what the current limitations are in terms of modding.
Perhaps in your mod you could add a selectable option to weaken fortifications? if the AI has difficulty taking fortified cities, lets just weaken forts to make it easier for them? Yes this makes it easier for human players too but it's not like it's hard now?
Just some thoughts. I'm sure you would have considered most of this already but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Thanks for the good work and I look forward to the next version.
Siesta Guru
Prince
Yeah it builds them in both. Probably a little too little in AI+ at the moment though. Ill have to tweak that, same thing with nukes (does it even build those in vanilla?). Too bad it's such a pain to test all the way up to the appropriate era. Not a big fan of advanced starts either because everything will be off.
Yeah gamespeed can affect it. On marathon it may be oversettling a little. While on online it takes too long for them to do that. Right now it doesn't seem to be too big of an issue though. On epic/marathon they'll end up being a little better when it comes to taking over cities because right now it's basically only in ancient/classical that they're really threatening.
I think it's probably going to be feeling most competent on standard/epic
Siesta Guru
Prince
Hey, thanks for the feedback!
Yeah this issue is definitely one that is most holding the AI back. It's too indecisive. It tends to sort of hover around some sort of decisionline where a small change in the environment will push it over and, making it completely flip what it's doing. It has little in terms of nuance, and there's no fight to the death style thing.
There's quite a few limitations on the modding to be able to structurally attack this issue. I can tweak some numbers here and there, but am especially in the tactical area very limited to making actually smart stuff happen, since I can't do any actual programming (even if I could, getting that right is very hard).
Luckily though, I found a few tweaks that make it significantly more bearable that will be included in v9. It's still going to be indecisive and distracted by the wrong things at the wrong times, but it'll be in the acceptable-ish range 60% of the time instead of 10% of the time. Which at least makes it feel like it can have some teeth.
Doesn't really seem like it at the moment. The problem is that their big defensive strength doesn't actually really come from their walls, it's from their automatic scaling due to teching ranged units. There doesn't seem to be any way to properly reduce that strength to reasonable levels. On top of that, the AI often simply doesn't attack walled cities, even if they could do big damage. Which seems to be some interal code thing.
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Thanks. Looking forward to trying out the new patch.
Also I read on another thread, the Harder AI guy saying that AI+ stops AI civs from expanding at all early game or slows them down too much which means they don't keep pace late game.
Again, just thought I'd mention it. In my AI+ game pre patch I did notice that I easily out expanded the AI on immortal by several orders. I would expect to do this anyway but not so much, so early?
Siesta Guru
Prince
I've heard the feedback before on v8, although it wasn't my experience. In v9 it'll definitely not be the case that it underexpands. It's supposed to expand way more than in vanilla.
I just had an idea I wanted to share!
Since the AI prefers melee units, and since it seems capable of taking cities BEFORE walls show up... what if you gave every melee unit the same capability as if it were next to a battering ram?? Then the AI units would always be able to do damage to walls, even with just melee units! (additional ranged and siege units would help too, obviously) but what do you think of this idea? Walls would mainly just add extra hit points to a city, like it probably should be.
Since the AI prefers melee units, and since it seems capable of taking cities BEFORE walls show up... what if you gave every melee unit the same capability as if it were next to a battering ram?? Then the AI units would always be able to do damage to walls, even with just melee units! (additional ranged and siege units would help too, obviously) but what do you think of this idea? Walls would mainly just add extra hit points to a city, like it probably should be.
