Airship: the moost ridiculous unit in the game?

[Dan Quale]

To balance the unit they should be given onboard machine guns, +200 pecent vs air units and 100 percent damage cap vs ground units, and also the ability to capture enemy cities.

 

[AfterShafter]

To balance the unit they should be given onboard machine guns, +200 pecent vs air units and 100 percent damage cap vs ground units, and also the ability to capture enemy cities.

What, no tactical nuke bay?

 

[Dominico]

lol airships are a joke, a horrible horrible joke by some twisted designer. If you are at work whoever gets them first gets an insane advantage and then it becomes a rush to aircraft to defend against them.

I hope they take them out/mod them in a patch, though i doubt we will get a patch since they are making a console version.

 

[TeraHammer]

"Kirchhoff Reporting!"

 

[Stylesrj]

Nothing wrong with airships. Change your strategy, probably mod an AA gun if you want and don't go for a big SOD. Remember, the enemy can only send 4 airships at you from one city.

 

[Woodreaux]

Aside from having my monstrous fleet of level 10 Pirates running the seas getting shut down by them, I've never really noticed them. This is until I discovered their power in my current game.
I'm playing Bismark on continents, running pure SE. For over a thousand years, my three neighbors (Winston, Cyrus and SittingBull) enjoyed great relations because we were all the same religion. I took a gamble, thinking I could gobble up the techs that give free at the expense of the good military techs. I my main military city didn't have West Point yet and most of neighbors' armies had a slight numeric and significant technological edge, but it wasn't overwhelming. But then, my closest Hindu ally, Churchhill decided to convert to Christianity. Three turns later, he adopts Theocracy and Nationalism. I immediately started churning out Knights and Musketmen, because I knew he would do at least one round of drafts. Expecting a blockade and beach assault, I built a dozen airships. Sooner than I expected he declare war and crossed the border with hordes of Grenadiers and Knights.
His SoD marched up to my Scientist Farm which was guarded by tons of longbows and pikemen, and he would have easily taken it, had sortie after sortie of bombings not greatly weaked his SoD of level 3 and 4 Grenediers and Knights. I was able to hold my vital city because the airships turned the tide. He ruined his economy with the drafts, while his massive number of casualties in my territory ran up his war weariness, and I was turns away from rifling! Soon after I promoted all my melee and archery units to riflemen, he was toast. Thanks airships

 

[autopsy-turvey]

airships are ridiculously and ahistorically powerful imo

i like them, they make physics a tech to shoot for because if you can get their first you can steamroll cities by weakening defenders before the assault. i would understand if they're nerfed though

 

[Stylesrj]

What I don't like is how my airships are turned into Fighters. Wouldn't an option to upgrade them to bombers as well be more appropriate? I mean, the Airship does bombing missions only and a bomber does bombing missions only. Makes sense does it not?

 

[Dominico]

They should be upgraded into mega saucers with lazers. Which cant be intercepted. Then they would keep their annoying aspect. They could make it happen with plastics which is just as stupid as physics for airships.

Plastic saucers based on frisbies. I like it They must have fricking lazers though, but you dont need the lazer tech.

 

[bardolph]

Airships have 4, cause no collateral damage, are limited to 4 per city, and cost 80 a pop.

Just for context, a Privateer also costs 80, while a Frigate costs 90

What's the big deal?

 

[KMadCandy]

what i don't understand about airships is that they're far better for recon than the later air units. they can see subs, no other air units can. you know, subs, the things i can't even make until two techs after i can make airships. how the heck do my airships know how to see subs when bombers, which i learn how to make with the same tech as subs, can't see 'em? and fighters, the upgrade to airships, forget how they used to know about subs? pilots

when i started playing BtS i had no idea there'd be any advantage to old-fashioned airships compared to the later units. then quite a while after i upgraded them all, i realized the sub-vision deal. so i pillaged all my oil and uranium, well one city was built on oil so i traded an oil away. then i made a stock of sub-spotting airships and hooked up my resources again. i also took advantage of the oil-free society to make a few spare privateers to pillage fishing boats here and there

 

[Jaybe]

KMC,
Airships/dirigibles were used in the WWII era for sub-spotting. Useful for moving slowly and scan an area CAREFULLY. At that time they were mainly spotting for surfaced U-boats or torpedo wakes (when escorting a convoy).

My main objections to airships are their extensive range, and then add a 6-tile search radius ON TOP of that. I wouldn't mind if it was a 6-tile search on top of ZERO range (or as much as 2, perhaps).

 

[Polycrates]

I like airships. Firstly, they're just fricking cool, which is a big plus. Second, they're fun to use and can be quite useful.
I don't think they're overpowered. The unanswered damage thing is powerful, but it really isn't enough damage per turn to really stop a concerted attack, and an airship-heavy army is going to be in trouble when it meets an army that invested more heavily in ground troops instead. They're good for softening elites, but an army of grunts with a medic can shrug them off pretty easily.
And I don't think there's another unit that gets obsoleted so hard, so instantaneously. A single fighter on intercept duty can wipe out an entire fleet of airships with no trouble, whereas other obsolete units can still overpower their newer equivalents with numbers, just not 1-on-1.
On the other hand, once you get Flight they upgrade to fighters for only 100 gold each, which I reckon is a pretty damn good deal (even if it kinda makes no sense).

 

[Bhruic]

I don't think they're overpowered. The unanswered damage thing is powerful, but it really isn't enough damage per turn to really stop a concerted attack, and an airship-heavy army is going to be in trouble when it meets an army that invested more heavily in ground troops instead. They're good for softening elites, but an army of grunts with a medic can shrug them off pretty easily.

Well, yes, if you aren't using them in their best capacity, they won't look overpowered. First off, you can station them in Forts, which effectively bypasses the "4 per city" limitation. Second, they can attack cities, which is where they quickly show their overpowered nature. By softening up the defenders before an attack, you can virtually guaruntee that you won't lose any units. I've done a march through enemy territory and not lost a single unit, thanks to Airships doing a number on the defenders pre-attack.

And finally, your comment about a stack with medics being able to "shrug them off" doesn't make any sense - if you are using Airships to soften a stack, then that stack is almost certainly either (a) mobile, and therefore not able to heal, or (b) about to be attacked by you, and therefore not able to heal. If you are using them to attack stationary units that you don't plan on attacking, of course they won't be overpowered. But under those circumstances, a Stealth Bomber wouldn't look overpowered attacking Axemen.

Bh

 

[KMadCandy]

but how can they be used for sub-spotting if nobody's heard of subs themselves for another two techs? and the stuff after can't? they're too early logically as far as that goes it seems to me, regardless of whether or not they're overpowered attack-wise.

and it's really odd to me that the later unit loses something compared to the earlier unit. promotion capabilities, sure, i'm used to that with melee vs. gunpowder. but that sub-seeing threw me for a loop. i had to find a way to go backwards in time to make the old ones again. and how destroyers can see subs but stealth destroyers can't, that one's weird too. stock up on old-fashioned destroyers or you're out of luck there, pillaging can't save ya. is that an oversight or is there a historical reason for that?

 

[lutzj]

what if they were easier to intercept?
I'm pretty sure that fighters/sam infantry/ etc. were the main reason that airships fell out of military use. What if they had a -1000% evasion chance?

 

[Polycrates]

Well, yes, if you aren't using them in their best capacity, they won't look overpowered. First off, you can station them in Forts, which effectively bypasses the "4 per city" limitation. Second, they can attack cities, which is where they quickly show their overpowered nature. By softening up the defenders before an attack, you can virtually guaruntee that you won't lose any units. I've done a march through enemy territory and not lost a single unit, thanks to Airships doing a number on the defenders pre-attack.

Concentrating them with forts is a logistical pain in the bum, and more difficult as you push deeper into enemy territory. But I still don't see it as really a problem, since a concentration of airships is a hell of a lot of resources that weren't spent building the boots on the ground to really capitalise on the advantage they give. I find they're best in modest numbers - denting the really tough nuts so that you don't have to waste sacrificial units or flanking cavalry on them, then hitting them with siege with the better odds; or for hurting lonesone targets of opportunity in the field so that cavalry can easily pick them off.
If you have military superiority anyway, sure, airships are a great way to build, maintain and project that extra strength, but in a face-off between two roughly equal armies, one airship-heavy, one airship-light but with more grunts, I'd put my money on the airship-light army every time.

And finally, your comment about a stack with medics being able to "shrug them off" doesn't make any sense - if you are using Airships to soften a stack, then that stack is almost certainly either (a) mobile, and therefore not able to heal, or (b) about to be attacked by you, and therefore not able to heal. If you are using them to attack stationary units that you don't plan on attacking, of course they won't be overpowered. But under those circumstances, a Stealth Bomber wouldn't look overpowered attacking Axemen.

Sure, but any attacking stack is going to be hounded by masses of the AI's suicidal artillery anyway before it gets to its target, which concentrate damage much better than airships do, even if they mostly die in the process. But airships are each only doing ~10-20% damage per turn to a single unit, which really isn't a lot to a big SOD. Unless the airships massively outnumber the units in the stack, it's not enough to easily pick them off in the field, and it's not enough to really stop them being effective against artillery-(or airship-) weakened defenders, particularly en masse, and particularly if you left some promos spare. And with a good healer, you can even heal most of that up on the turn or two it takes the artillery to bring the defences down. Otherwise a bit of quick recouping in the newly-captured city will still get them fit and happy again.
I've never found the AI's hordes of airships to be anything more than a nuisance, and I've put my faith in my own fleet of defensive airships before, but when Genghis sends his massive stack over your borders, they're really not going to slow his stride.

 

[Bhruic]

Sure, but any attacking stack is going to be hounded by masses of the AI's suicidal artillery anyway before it gets to its target, which concentrate damage much better than airships do, even if they mostly die in the process.

And that sums up my argument right there. Replacing something that will "mostly die" with something that can't be damaged is a bad design decision. I have no problem with Airships beyond the fact they have no counter. Make some sort of weak, 4 str early "anti-air" unit, and everything is kosher again.

Bh

 

[gunter]

Make some sort of weak, 4 str early "anti-air" unit, and everything is kosher again.Bh

Considering you are the man who made BtS a real game...how about a Christmas present for us all ?

Maybe a kind of bowmen shooting burning dards ?

 

[Omegon3]

What I don't like is how my airships are turned into Fighters. Wouldn't an option to upgrade them to bombers as well be more appropriate? I mean, the Airship does bombing missions only and a bomber does bombing missions only. Makes sense does it not?

Makes great sense to me!! It's not like an airship can protect the skies over a city the way a (jet) fighter can; it's ONLY use is unit bombardment (so far as I know, you cannot use them to weaken the defenses of a city...).

Of course I think this entire debate is a little rediculous. Yes, airships are probably overpowered. however, for those complaining that civs that have them have a huge advantage, is there some reason that the first civ to get flight doesn't enjoy the same advantage or am I missing something? If this is a reason for outlawing something, then perhaps a civ shouldn't be able to use tanks until every other civ has one since a tank is a HUGE advantage when invading someone....

Isn't the whole idea of carefully selecting technologies and advancing as quickly as possible to get an edge on your oponent?