ALC Game #10: India/Asoka

[Lance of Llanwy]

I don't think Tokugawa ever trades technology. In the leader configurations, his value for iTechTradeKnownPercent is 100. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but it can't be good. It's definitely extremely difficult to get him to trade technology. I think it's impossible.

He will trade resources though if he likes you enough, and he's an outstanding war ally, because you can gift him useful technologies without worrying that they'll fall into the wrong hands.

I believe what it means is that Toku only trades a tech with the player IF EVERYONE ELSE ALREADY HAS IT. So, he'd only trade a tech if both Mehmed and Ragnar already have it....which means YOU(the player) probably already have it. Ragnar's not particularly generous either, but not as tight-fisted as Toku....

 

[johnny_rico]

"Keep your friends close but your enemies closer." -- Michael Corleone

I think this game is ripe for a cultural victory. You have almost all the turf you need; future cities have already been pointed out for you.

There is no good current target for war. Mehmed would be the best but assaulting him would draw the ire of both Ragnar and Toku, which is no good.

I would try to spread buddhism to all of Toku's cities quickly, Ragnar's cities will probably follow suit on their own, but I wouldn't make Rangar's lands a priority. If Mehmed founds a religion and converts (and we should hope he does), it will be an excuse to gain Istanbul and the Marble city.

If you could get Toku as an ally, later on if things get tense with Ragnar, you can probably bribe Toku to war against him.

Focusing on border culture is key, drama, music, running artists, religious buildings. Is it still possible for you to found another religion? A GS for philosophy en route to liberalism would be good. Founding other religions won't affect Toku and Ragnar because they'll be running theocracy so they won't spread.

For military, X-bows with shock will be clutch. Throw in some barrage catapults, and pikes to deal with the cavalry the AI seems to favor. You'll need the required archer for each cities defense but defending your homeland is all about reduced pillaging.

Optics is also a key technology. You need to get over there for trading and to stir the pot diplomatically. It just needs to be hoped different civs have founded different religions. If Victoria is over there, she's a target. Man, does she tech fast in patched warlords. Anyway, if you can keep the other continent at war with itself, it will hold them back. Later on, you can bribe the Toku-monster to attack whoever is in the lead. Aggresive + Protective = bad news.

So that's it. Just follow these simple steps and the game is over, right? Nothing unexpected ever comes from this game.

If this plan gains acceptance, more can be discussed on the execution of securing a cultural victory (the whats and wheres). If not, I'll be happy to watch the war engine rev, especially when fighting Toku.

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

I've gotta hand it to you, you guys have some serious cajones to be recommending a cultural victory with Brennus and Tokugawa as neighbors. And with the new AI that keeps up better in the later stages of the game. I foresee an invasion in around 1800 by a lot of amphibious infantry and Combat I / City Garrison I / Drill I riflemen.

 

[johnny_rico]

I've gotta hand it to you, you guys have some serious cajones to be recommending a cultural victory with Brennus and Tokugawa as neighbors. And with the new AI that keeps up better in the later stages of the game. I foresee an invasion in around 1800 by a lot of amphibious infantry and Combat I / City Garrison I / Drill I riflemen.

A couple of things.

1. If the AI will attack due to power differences regardless of reputation, than we have a problem.

2. It seems like it should be fairly predictable where an assault will come from, so one shouldn't need hordes of units to defend one's turf.

3. If the AI declares, war, they're still bad at it.

4. It would be preferable to keep Toku and Ragnar in a war of attrition with one another.

5. A cultural victory with these neighbors is the 'challenge' in ALC.

6. It may be a completed baked idea.

 

[drkodos]

I've gotta hand it to you, you guys have some serious cajones to be recommending a cultural victory with Brennus and Tokugawa as neighbors. And with the new AI that keeps up better in the later stages of the game. I foresee an invasion in around 1800 by a lot of amphibious infantry and Combat I / City Garrison I / Drill I riflemen.

Brennus?

What did I miss?

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

Brennus?

What did I miss?

The part where I explain that I constantly confuse Ragnar and Brennus for some reason. I think it's something about Berzerker and Brennus both starting with B.

 

[karr1255]

While cultural might be risky, a good base for it is there. Plus it's not that hard to defend against the AI and if Toku adopts your religion he might even be peaceful...might.

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

1. If the AI will attack due to power differences regardless of reputation, than we have a problem.

Some are worse than others. Guys like Gandhi can be trusted almost implicitly. Tokugawa isn't so reliable. He's also a lot harder to become Friendly with. Pleased can be done, but Friendly is really tough, especially if you've got close borders sparking tensions.

3. If the AI declares, war, they're still bad at it.

Yes, but infantry and tanks with cannons and artillery vs. no better than riflemen and catapults makes up for a lot of tactical mistakes.

6. It may be a completed baked idea.

I don't think it's crazy, but it seems very risky. It would certainly pose an interesting challenge. If you could keep Tokugawa happy enough to stay off your back, I think you could feel pretty safe about Brennus and whoever is on the other continent, because you could always bribe Tokugawa into covering your back.

 

[johnny_rico]

Yes Dr. EJ, having Toku as your 'muscle' is the key, or, not having it turn against you.

I hadn't thought about turning off tech at or near democracy. So yes, if toku declares war, I suppose it will be arty, tanks, and infantry vs. rifles and cats i.e. - over quickly.

A cultural victory should be possible by early 1800's so it will be a risk.

 

[uncarved block]

Another reason a Cultural win might be risky is the other continent. The Romans, at the very least, will send fairly sizable invasion forces over the ocean-- happened in an ALC, IIRC. Izzy and Monty are prone to the same behavior, and one of the other civs over there is a religion-monger.

For my money, Ragnar is only slightly less dangerous as a neighbor than Brennus or Alex. Having a jerk and a backstabber as neighbors? "Challenging" is an understatement.

I'm just getting over a small bout of computer problems, but from what little I got to play post-patch, the AI is a lot harder to bribe into war, at least from checking what was redded out in diplomacy. Unless there's pre-existing strife- and sometimes even if there is- they just aren't as willing to sound the trumpet as before. (This on Aggressive AI setting, to boot). Maybe things are different on the higher levels, but counting on being able to bribe Toku into a war seems a less viable strategy than before.

 

[johnny_rico]

Another reason a Cultural win might be risky is the other continent. The Romans, at the very least, will send fairly sizable invasion forces over the ocean-- happened in an ALC, IIRC. Izzy and Monty are prone to the same behavior, and one of the other civs over there is a religion-monger.

You write this like you already know who is on the other continent.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

You write this like you already know who is on the other continent.

Well, considering Buddhism is the only religion on this continent, there's gotta be some one going religion happy...or, preferably some one's.

I played a Shaka game today that I abandoned(isolated on what amounted to a glorified island on a Fractal map, with my only resources being gems, pigs, sugar,horses, iron, copper, and some stone, fish, and clams on this ridiculously long and worthless desert penisula). Did I mention the jungles? no? Well, the whole goddamned thing was a jungle...except for the desert in the north. In any case, once Mansa Musa showed up in a caravel, I swung a trade of Drama for Lit, 130 gold, and his World Map. Just tryin' help a brotha out I guess....anyways, soon after, I got messages that no less than three great generals were born, in succession, and learned that Bismarck was at war with Cyrus and Nappie....and then Alex wiped out Monty. I have no idea what the hell happened, but they just decided to beat the crud out of eachother and left Mansa Musa alone. Gee, thanks guys...

Edit: Point being...the AI can still be plenty frisky...

 

[Sisiutil]

I can't believe you guys are advocating a cultural victory for my first ever WARlords game!!!

Especially with these neighbours.

I still think the original plan stands. Take out Mehmed and keep sweeping through the continent clockwise. Meanwhile prioritize Optics so I can meet and trade with the other continent.

 

[Mannu]

Boo... : (

Alright go get them! (Isn't it odd that War is not nearly as risky as Peace in this game? I wonder if that means anything...)

 

[karr1255]

The only risk in cultural is getting crushed by neighbors. But usually you should pull it off around 1800 so you don't have to worry about runaway civs going into space.

 

[Sisiutil]

Boo... : (

Alright go get them! (Isn't it odd that War is not nearly as risky as Peace in this game? I wonder if that means anything...)

War is always risky if you're weak, unprepared, and reluctant to fight; much less so if you're strong, ready, and willing.

Sounds like something Sun-Tzu should have said, doesn't it?

 

[pigswill]

Mehmed sounds a reasonable plan as long as you get trading partners overseas. Might be an idea to backfill a bit in the north so as not to leave gaps for Ragnar to colonise.

 

[johnny_rico]

I can't believe you guys are advocating a cultural victory for my first ever WARlords game!!!

OK, build the manhattan project and nuke toku back to the stone age. I take back the idea for a cultural victory.

 

[wioneo]

I think that you should declare war on Mehemed as soon as you build catapults, and then research feudalism while you are destroying him. I would line up a few defensive units just in case that Japanian decides to backstab you. Mehemed can't have any worthwhile cities other than the two, am I correct in thinking that you want the capitol and marble city?, cities that you are going to keep. Vassalizing him would be worthless do to his lack of land, Tokugawa is useless do to his general stupidity. Ragnar, however, could make a very good tech slave. I also suggest that you burn Japan IMMEDIATELY after you destroy the ottomans. I doubt that you will get feudalism before Tokugawa, so it will be a tough fight. Especially without fast pillagers...

 

[carl corey]

I just won my first post-patch Monarch game through domination. If you're going for all-war I'm sure it will be a very entertaining game, with the improved AI & corrected vassal system. I know mine was. Good luck! And chop'em all! (starting with Mehmed; I played him in my game, but I promise I won't hold it against you...)