ALC Game #10: India/Asoka
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Gee, thanks. And I may have to tax your patience a little more--Vancouver was hit by a big Pacific wind storm (100 km per hr. winds!) that wreaked havoc on the electrical grid, among other things. When I left home this morning, the power was out, and it may not be back on by the time I get back--so unless I figure out a McGyver-style way to power my computer by hand-crank or something, there may not be an update tonight. 
It's a shame, the war with Rangar's going very well--taking out his oil wells was the key tactic. In the absence of an update, here's something to consider: when I left off, Isabella was warring on Alexander, and Churchill had joined in and had captured at least 3 Greek cities, IIRC. Alex, I suspect, will either be wiped out or vassalized very soon. Should we continue to pursue a domination win (Isabella and Churchill are looking chummy, and Churchill is looking very strong), or should we punt and go space race once Ragnar is toast? It would allow us to vassalize Ragnar once I have his wonder cities and if he's willing. Discuss.
Syndrome Zed
Wanna see my quad laser?
In the absence of an update, here's something to consider: when I left off, Isabella was warring on Alexander, and Churchill had joined in and had captured at least 3 Greek cities, IIRC. Alex, I suspect, will either be wiped out or vassalized very soon. Should we continue to pursue a domination win (Isabella and Churchill are looking chummy, and Churchill is looking very strong), or should we punt and go space race once Ragnar is toast? It would allow us to vassalize Ragnar once I have his wonder cities and if he's willing. Discuss.
Yeah, I saw the results of that windstorm on TV yesterday - Sea-Tac Int'l Airport was hit with it too, and they actually had jumbo jets doing Touch and Go's (landing and immediately taking off again) because the crosswinds were so bad.
Good thing most commercial pilots have military pilot training, that's more of a military flying technique than civilian, so at least they have some practice at it. So keep your head down and make sure you don't wear really baggy clothes right now or you'll be posting the update after blowing all the way to Quebec. 
So Alex is done, eh? I wonder if this makes a diplo vic easier? I had suggested at some point that it might be worth building up Churchill's domination on the other continent in order to have an even bigger friendly on your side for diplomacy's sake. How big is Winston compared to Ragnar now? If he's not your direct competition once the UN is built, I'm sure you could get his votes with a little more diplomatic/religious gladhanding.
It may be too late, though. If Winston's going to be your UN competition, you'd probably only get Ragnar's votes and the vote would be split mostly down the middle (Win-Issy bloc vs. Sisiutil-Ragnar bloc). If that's the case, and it's too late for a diplo win because Churchills' overgrown, then I'd say punt and go for Alpha Centauri. Unless you want to say "damn the torpedoes!" and just go warmongering. Having to fight Churchill on his own turf is doable, but I suspect it would be a lot harder to get a domination vic against a battle-hardened Churchill...and obviously I suspect what's left of Alex and Issy wouldn't be enough, even with all of Raggie's lands (i.e. not vassalized, but exterminated). It might be enough after all, but it seems to me that it'd be taking the long way home at this point. I think the space race will be much easier, especially with Ragnar's "help"
.BTW, if you have some chewing gum, a piece of string, and some duct tape, you should be able to build a fusion-powered Gigawatt generator for power just by watching those old MacGyver eps.
Or get some coconuts and a few palm trees and maybe a small monkey - didn't that always work for Gilligan and the Professor? 
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
Punt to a space win is definitely the least labour-intensive way to win this - far less stack moving/sorting and MM involved than a domination win. You've got a decent tech lead over Churchill (or at least, you did the last time I looked) and easily have the land and production to blow the AI away in a space race. You've also got more than enough troops to fend off any late-game invasion if Ragnar's collapsing like a drunken uncle at a wedding.Should we continue to pursue a domination win (Isabella and Churchill are looking chummy, and Churchill is looking very strong), or should we punt and go space race once Ragnar is toast? It would allow us to vassalize Ragnar once I have his wonder cities and if he's willing. Discuss.
As far as the current tech situation's concerned, does Ragnar have any/many techs on you since you've been following different paths? If so, vassalizing him would speed up a space win as you can grab all of those into the bargain.
Then again, since you've got the production and economy to coast to a space win, you've also got the resources to conquer the other continent, so which you go for should ultimately depend on which you'd enjoy playing out more.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
When I left off, in about 1870 or so, I was the tech leader. 
No one, including Ragnar, had any techs I didn't; I had a couple on Ragnar, I have a few more over Churchill, and several on Isabella and Alexander.
Isabella has taken some Greek territory, so we could get a domination win by going after her. My concern is that she and Churchill have gotten very cuddly (now there's an unpleasant image), so if I invade Spain I could wind up fighting England as well, making me feel like Napoleon in 1811.
Space race is looking appealing just because the micromanagement of units for conquering the Vikings is wearing me out. And if we go for domination, I should finish him rather than vassalizing him, so that's more work. On the other hand, I'll have this huge, ridiculously-XP'd military just sitting around... Hmmm...
No one, including Ragnar, had any techs I didn't; I had a couple on Ragnar, I have a few more over Churchill, and several on Isabella and Alexander. Isabella has taken some Greek territory, so we could get a domination win by going after her. My concern is that she and Churchill have gotten very cuddly (now there's an unpleasant image), so if I invade Spain I could wind up fighting England as well, making me feel like Napoleon in 1811.
Space race is looking appealing just because the micromanagement of units for conquering the Vikings is wearing me out. And if we go for domination, I should finish him rather than vassalizing him, so that's more work. On the other hand, I'll have this huge, ridiculously-XP'd military just sitting around... Hmmm...
Like that ever stopped you before.
If Churchy & Izzy are becoming chummy and Alex is on the ropes, then I guess Diplomatic Victory is out (if Alex becomes Churchy's vassal, he will always vote for Churchill no matter what.) With a tech lead you should be able to cruise to a space victory with no problems, although Domination would be more fun to watch, naturally. And then there's Conquest...hmm...how close are you to obtaining nuclear weapons?
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 14: to 1894 AD
War with the Vikings Part 1: the Defensive War
As the round started, I made a tech trade with Churchill:
I decided not to help him out too much, as he will be my main competitor once Ragnar is done with. He wouldn't take Railroad for Artillery, and about two turns later I found out why--he was nearly done researching it himself. This may not have been the smartest tech trade I've done, since I still had not found it necessary to switch to Emancipation by the end of the round! Even so, it was nice to have the option in my back pocket if war weariness had gotten unmanageable. Fortunately, I found other ways to deal with it, as you'll see.
I set two trigger points for myself. Once Ragnar had his oil well hooked up, I would switch civics to Theocracy and Vassalage and start churning out my units will all the extra XPs. Then I would declare war either when he finished researching Flight or in 10 turns after the civic switch--whichever came sooner.
In 1834, Ragnar had access to oil. To discourage him from upgrading his naval units to Destroyers and Transports as much as I could, I offered him my world map for as much gold as he was willing to part with:
It seemed to work--he only upgraded 1/3 to 1/2 of his fleet, mostly to Transports.
Because of the timing of the builds, I waited one more turn and then changed to the "war civics":
I then adjusted the city builds so the oldest units in the queues started coming out first. Within a few turns, I had a good-sized force of Tanks and Marines. At first, though, these units would be primarily devoted to defense. I spread them out in my cities along that long border I have with the Vikings. The first 2 Tanks in each city got Barrage II and Drill II, respectively, as was suggested earlier to deal with enemy incursions. Thanks to the civics, barracks, and the Pentagon, they were at 9/10 XPs, so they would earn their next promotions if they survived their first battle.
As I mentioned before, I also pillaged one of my own three oil wells:
The tile was 50% Viking and did flip a few turns later, so it was a good decision. Depriving Ragnar of oil was a key tactic for success in this war, as you'll see. Since Ragnar had Communism and, for all I knew, had built Scotland Yard and had spies running around in my territory, I fortified an Infantry on my two other oil wells and had Fast Workers standing by to repair them if they were sabotaged.
In 1840, I checked the tech screen in the Foreign Advisor and discovered that Ragnar had discovered Flight:
I immediately went to see him...
Ewww. Just grab a Kleenex, will you? No, we're not going to shake hands and part like gentlemen, mucous-boy!
I then sent a couple of my tanks at his oil well and the SAM Infantry protecting it:
The whole idea was to keep him from upgrading the huge numbers of Cavalry he had to Gunships, as well as preventing him from upgrading any more naval units. I was especially concerned about the Gunships, since they're a counter to the unit that was going to be the backbone of my military in this war--Tanks. Speaking of which, depriving Ragnar of oil would also prevent him from building any Tanks of his own if he bee-lined to Industrialism.
Now, I was in no way ready to launch an offensive. So what I had to do was settle back and soak up whatever punishment Ragnar saw fit to mete out for my audaciousness. Most of his attacks were concentrated upon the recently-captured Japanese city of Yokohama:
I half-expected to lose it, which would not have been such a big deal--it's not a great city--but I would have lost several units, and it would have put Ragnar a hop, skip, and jump away from Satsuma, which contains a couple of wonders (even if they are obsolete) and was rapidly becoming a production powerhouse.
Ragnar also tried to pull a sneak amphibious attack:
Fortunately, as you can see by the presence of several of my Destroyers and some Fighters, I had anticipated such a tactic. Izumo was poorly-defended on my part--on purpose in some respects--and we know how the AI loves low-hanging fruit. Also, my religious shrine-powered intelligence revealed these units sitting in Circassian along with several Artillery and other units. And his attack on Yokohama kind of tipped his hand as far as where he was going to concentrate his efforts. Indeed, he never managed to send more than a few pillaging stacks at my large, well-defended cities on his northern and eastern borders.
Anyway, like I said, I had several Destroyers posted in the area. I also had another one on its way, travelling down the west coast:
Yeah! Very satisfying. Say what you will about naval units in Civ IV, it's much easier to kill the units when they're on a Transport than when they're on a good defensive tile in your own territory. I managed to sink all but one of his ships, a Transport, which turned tail and headed back to port in the face of such opposition. Of course, the fact that I positioned each of my Destroyers, post-battle, to block every coastal tile in proximity to Izumo probably helped discourage him.
Meanwhile, my units in Yokohama were holding on; Cavalry versus Tanks just ain't a fair fight.
Still, he was also throwing Artillery and SAM Infantry at me, and he seemed to have an inexhaustible supply of both, along with lots of suicide Cavalry. I had to pull several units out of Osaka and Tokyo to deal with the onslaught. I crossed my fingers and hoped that Blake's improved AI wasn't smart enough to pull a massive feint.
As a result of all this action, I got my next Great General. I sent him to the capital to construct a military academy, since I already had a military instructor settled there from before. Delhi was running several priests instead of scientists in my bid to get a Great Prophet so I could construct the Taoist shrine in Tokyo, so the city had very good production.
Ragnar tried to sneak another, smaller armada around the west coast to my northern cities. Again, denying him oil made the fight decidedly uneven in my favour:
Battleships versus Frigates... guess how that turned out? Not well for Ragnar, that's for sure!
Earlier in the round, I'd finished researching Radio. By 1848, then, I had a good-sized air force of Fighters and Bombers. I also had several Tanks with Combat and City Raider promotions, and lots of Marines. In addition, Ragnar's attacks on my territory were slowing down, seemingly indicating that I had killed most of his units. So I finally felt prepared to take the offensive in this war. That part of the round will be described in the next post...
War with the Vikings Part 1: the Defensive War
As the round started, I made a tech trade with Churchill:
I decided not to help him out too much, as he will be my main competitor once Ragnar is done with. He wouldn't take Railroad for Artillery, and about two turns later I found out why--he was nearly done researching it himself. This may not have been the smartest tech trade I've done, since I still had not found it necessary to switch to Emancipation by the end of the round! Even so, it was nice to have the option in my back pocket if war weariness had gotten unmanageable. Fortunately, I found other ways to deal with it, as you'll see.
I set two trigger points for myself. Once Ragnar had his oil well hooked up, I would switch civics to Theocracy and Vassalage and start churning out my units will all the extra XPs. Then I would declare war either when he finished researching Flight or in 10 turns after the civic switch--whichever came sooner.
In 1834, Ragnar had access to oil. To discourage him from upgrading his naval units to Destroyers and Transports as much as I could, I offered him my world map for as much gold as he was willing to part with:
It seemed to work--he only upgraded 1/3 to 1/2 of his fleet, mostly to Transports.
Because of the timing of the builds, I waited one more turn and then changed to the "war civics":
I then adjusted the city builds so the oldest units in the queues started coming out first. Within a few turns, I had a good-sized force of Tanks and Marines. At first, though, these units would be primarily devoted to defense. I spread them out in my cities along that long border I have with the Vikings. The first 2 Tanks in each city got Barrage II and Drill II, respectively, as was suggested earlier to deal with enemy incursions. Thanks to the civics, barracks, and the Pentagon, they were at 9/10 XPs, so they would earn their next promotions if they survived their first battle.
As I mentioned before, I also pillaged one of my own three oil wells:
The tile was 50% Viking and did flip a few turns later, so it was a good decision. Depriving Ragnar of oil was a key tactic for success in this war, as you'll see. Since Ragnar had Communism and, for all I knew, had built Scotland Yard and had spies running around in my territory, I fortified an Infantry on my two other oil wells and had Fast Workers standing by to repair them if they were sabotaged.
In 1840, I checked the tech screen in the Foreign Advisor and discovered that Ragnar had discovered Flight:
I immediately went to see him...
Ewww. Just grab a Kleenex, will you? No, we're not going to shake hands and part like gentlemen, mucous-boy!
I then sent a couple of my tanks at his oil well and the SAM Infantry protecting it:
The whole idea was to keep him from upgrading the huge numbers of Cavalry he had to Gunships, as well as preventing him from upgrading any more naval units. I was especially concerned about the Gunships, since they're a counter to the unit that was going to be the backbone of my military in this war--Tanks. Speaking of which, depriving Ragnar of oil would also prevent him from building any Tanks of his own if he bee-lined to Industrialism.
Now, I was in no way ready to launch an offensive. So what I had to do was settle back and soak up whatever punishment Ragnar saw fit to mete out for my audaciousness. Most of his attacks were concentrated upon the recently-captured Japanese city of Yokohama:
I half-expected to lose it, which would not have been such a big deal--it's not a great city--but I would have lost several units, and it would have put Ragnar a hop, skip, and jump away from Satsuma, which contains a couple of wonders (even if they are obsolete) and was rapidly becoming a production powerhouse.
Ragnar also tried to pull a sneak amphibious attack:
Fortunately, as you can see by the presence of several of my Destroyers and some Fighters, I had anticipated such a tactic. Izumo was poorly-defended on my part--on purpose in some respects--and we know how the AI loves low-hanging fruit. Also, my religious shrine-powered intelligence revealed these units sitting in Circassian along with several Artillery and other units. And his attack on Yokohama kind of tipped his hand as far as where he was going to concentrate his efforts. Indeed, he never managed to send more than a few pillaging stacks at my large, well-defended cities on his northern and eastern borders.
Anyway, like I said, I had several Destroyers posted in the area. I also had another one on its way, travelling down the west coast:
Yeah! Very satisfying. Say what you will about naval units in Civ IV, it's much easier to kill the units when they're on a Transport than when they're on a good defensive tile in your own territory. I managed to sink all but one of his ships, a Transport, which turned tail and headed back to port in the face of such opposition. Of course, the fact that I positioned each of my Destroyers, post-battle, to block every coastal tile in proximity to Izumo probably helped discourage him.
Meanwhile, my units in Yokohama were holding on; Cavalry versus Tanks just ain't a fair fight.
Still, he was also throwing Artillery and SAM Infantry at me, and he seemed to have an inexhaustible supply of both, along with lots of suicide Cavalry. I had to pull several units out of Osaka and Tokyo to deal with the onslaught. I crossed my fingers and hoped that Blake's improved AI wasn't smart enough to pull a massive feint.
As a result of all this action, I got my next Great General. I sent him to the capital to construct a military academy, since I already had a military instructor settled there from before. Delhi was running several priests instead of scientists in my bid to get a Great Prophet so I could construct the Taoist shrine in Tokyo, so the city had very good production.
Ragnar tried to sneak another, smaller armada around the west coast to my northern cities. Again, denying him oil made the fight decidedly uneven in my favour:
Battleships versus Frigates... guess how that turned out? Not well for Ragnar, that's for sure!
Earlier in the round, I'd finished researching Radio. By 1848, then, I had a good-sized air force of Fighters and Bombers. I also had several Tanks with Combat and City Raider promotions, and lots of Marines. In addition, Ragnar's attacks on my territory were slowing down, seemingly indicating that I had killed most of his units. So I finally felt prepared to take the offensive in this war. That part of the round will be described in the next post...
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 14: to 1894 AD
War with the Vikings Part 2: the Offensive War
As the next part of the round started, I noticed that Alexander, of all people, had a useful tech to offer in trade: Communism! That would allow me to switch to State Property for big savings right away, and to build Scotland Yard for Spies. I immediately went to see him.
Not a bad trade, I thought; I was obviously hoping he would adopt Free Market--though as you'll see, that became a moot point before the end of the round. It seems Alexander wasn't exactly playing Dale Carnegie and making friends and influencing people over on his continent:
Yeah, Isabella declared war on him, and a few turns later, Churchill decided to join in on the fun. The earlier tech trade, shown above, earned my a -3 diplomatic demerit with Churchill, but he remained "Pleased". By this time I was ahead of him in power anyway, so I figured I didn't have much to worry about, especially since the AI is still not all that great at amphibious invasions, as poor Ragnar was proving.
Ah, yes, good ol' Ragnar, my hapless, cow-fixated foil. With my Bombers, Fighters, Tanks, and Marines all hyped and ready to go, it was time to take an offensive tack in this war.
I decided to focus on his inland cities first. I could then absorb any further counter-attacks, if they came. Then I would send several of my best defensive units (Marines) onto Transports moored outside of Madras to become offensive units that would attack the Vikings' western coastal cities.
The next city I took from him contained a nice surprise:
I'd forgotten that Ragnar had been such a wonder hog in this game! Yep, the Spiral Minaret certainly gave my economy a shot in the arm, thanks to all those Buddhist temples I'd built earlier.
A few turns later, Churchill showed up with an interesting proposition:
Hmmm... well, I was trying to keep Churchill happy with me (since he was the only one who was anymore), and the diplomatic bonuses for fighting a phony war against the Greeks seemed attractive. Heck, Isabella might even warm up to me and throw some sugar and spice my way. (I know, it sounds like I'm talking about something else, doesn't it?) So, yeah, I went to war with Greece and never fired a shot. Well, except for the Longbowman Alexander had left hanging around down south on the ice after I'd flipped Ephesus. A tank took care of him.
Meanwhile, my amphibious force was finally ready to prove its worth.
I decided to use all my city raider veterans in this part of the war effort. They couldn't keep up with the Tanks on land, after all. Once the Bombers and some Artillery made mincemeat of the coastal city's defenders, they did all right, despite the lack of an amphibious promotion. I didn't lose a single one of them. Not even the lone Grenadier I still had, valiantly trying to earn his Level 5 promotion.
However, war weariness was becoming an issue. I had already raised the culture slider one tick, and I was reluctant to raise it further. Not when I had a way to turn one of my military buildings into the equivalent of two temples:
Goodbye, Vassalage and Theocracy, hello, Nationhood and Organized Religion. I had built more than enough units by this point to finish off Ragnar, so I didn't really need the empire-wide XP boost. I did continue producing units in Delhi and Bangalore, what with their military bonuses and all. Both cities also had airports now, so I could airdrop a City Garrison II or III Marine into a city on the same turn that I captured it--a handy way to keep up with the fast-moving Tanks! Also, Organized Religion would help me with some additional infrastructure; observatories in particular, in anticipation of the space race. Some of my cities were hitting their health limits and needed Grocers and Aqueducts as well.
Ah, Great People--I almost forgot. I did get my Great Prophet in Delhi and used him to build the Dai Miao in Tokyo--a nice boost to my income and Tokyo's cultural border pressure. Organized Religion would also help me spread Taoism throughout my empire (and overseas) to make the shrine even more lucrative. My next GP came out of my GP farm, Lahore. The two leading candidates there were a Great Artist (meh), or a Great Engineer. Guess which one I got?
Woot! I love GEs. I finished the Three Gorges Dam a few turns early to further rush the infrastructure I was now focusing on in my cities.
Meanwhile, overseas, Churchill now had Artillery and Tanks to poor Alexander's Riflemen. So as you can imagine, he captured several Greek cities, and Alexander, finally and inevitably, capitulated:
One turn later, I got a bit of a surprise when I checked the diplomatic advisor, because Churchill now had two vassals!
Obviously, Isabella submitted willingly to Churchill. (Okay, more disturbing imagery there.) So now if I want to war with any of them, I'll be warring with all of them. I think this argues in favour of pursuing a space race win, but we can discuss that shortly, of course.
Meanwhile, I continued capturing cities, and wonders:
Notre Dame was a welcome addition, since it immediately helped with mounting war weariness. The Hagia Sophia is obsolete, of course, but the Kremlin is not. I foresee a change to Universal Suffrage before too long; the extra hammers are very useful for the space race. I decided to start accumulating gold by running the science slider a little lower than I needed to.
And then I captured Sigtuna and another wonder:
The Statue of Liberty. Niiiiiice. It was awfully thoughtful of Ragnar to build all those wonders for me, don't you think?
Finally, in 1894, my amphibious force proved its worth by capturing two Viking cities in the same turn:
I can't recall ever doing that before. Another advantage of the Syrian doctrine. Ragnar had several Infantry outside of Lodose, which I killed, partly for the XPs. I'm now 8 XPs away from my next (and probably final) Great General, so I'm thinking of capturing the last two Viking cities on that northern island in order to get him. I thought I might build a Military Academy in Madras with him.
So I now, at long last, own my continent. Phew! It took a lot longer than it usually does. I'll follow this post with a "state of the world" update, then we can discuss victory conditions and how to best achieve them.
War with the Vikings Part 2: the Offensive War
As the next part of the round started, I noticed that Alexander, of all people, had a useful tech to offer in trade: Communism! That would allow me to switch to State Property for big savings right away, and to build Scotland Yard for Spies. I immediately went to see him.
Not a bad trade, I thought; I was obviously hoping he would adopt Free Market--though as you'll see, that became a moot point before the end of the round. It seems Alexander wasn't exactly playing Dale Carnegie and making friends and influencing people over on his continent:
Yeah, Isabella declared war on him, and a few turns later, Churchill decided to join in on the fun. The earlier tech trade, shown above, earned my a -3 diplomatic demerit with Churchill, but he remained "Pleased". By this time I was ahead of him in power anyway, so I figured I didn't have much to worry about, especially since the AI is still not all that great at amphibious invasions, as poor Ragnar was proving.
Ah, yes, good ol' Ragnar, my hapless, cow-fixated foil. With my Bombers, Fighters, Tanks, and Marines all hyped and ready to go, it was time to take an offensive tack in this war.
I decided to focus on his inland cities first. I could then absorb any further counter-attacks, if they came. Then I would send several of my best defensive units (Marines) onto Transports moored outside of Madras to become offensive units that would attack the Vikings' western coastal cities.
The next city I took from him contained a nice surprise:
I'd forgotten that Ragnar had been such a wonder hog in this game! Yep, the Spiral Minaret certainly gave my economy a shot in the arm, thanks to all those Buddhist temples I'd built earlier.
A few turns later, Churchill showed up with an interesting proposition:
Hmmm... well, I was trying to keep Churchill happy with me (since he was the only one who was anymore), and the diplomatic bonuses for fighting a phony war against the Greeks seemed attractive. Heck, Isabella might even warm up to me and throw some sugar and spice my way. (I know, it sounds like I'm talking about something else, doesn't it?) So, yeah, I went to war with Greece and never fired a shot. Well, except for the Longbowman Alexander had left hanging around down south on the ice after I'd flipped Ephesus. A tank took care of him.
Meanwhile, my amphibious force was finally ready to prove its worth.
I decided to use all my city raider veterans in this part of the war effort. They couldn't keep up with the Tanks on land, after all. Once the Bombers and some Artillery made mincemeat of the coastal city's defenders, they did all right, despite the lack of an amphibious promotion. I didn't lose a single one of them. Not even the lone Grenadier I still had, valiantly trying to earn his Level 5 promotion.
However, war weariness was becoming an issue. I had already raised the culture slider one tick, and I was reluctant to raise it further. Not when I had a way to turn one of my military buildings into the equivalent of two temples:
Goodbye, Vassalage and Theocracy, hello, Nationhood and Organized Religion. I had built more than enough units by this point to finish off Ragnar, so I didn't really need the empire-wide XP boost. I did continue producing units in Delhi and Bangalore, what with their military bonuses and all. Both cities also had airports now, so I could airdrop a City Garrison II or III Marine into a city on the same turn that I captured it--a handy way to keep up with the fast-moving Tanks! Also, Organized Religion would help me with some additional infrastructure; observatories in particular, in anticipation of the space race. Some of my cities were hitting their health limits and needed Grocers and Aqueducts as well.
Ah, Great People--I almost forgot. I did get my Great Prophet in Delhi and used him to build the Dai Miao in Tokyo--a nice boost to my income and Tokyo's cultural border pressure. Organized Religion would also help me spread Taoism throughout my empire (and overseas) to make the shrine even more lucrative. My next GP came out of my GP farm, Lahore. The two leading candidates there were a Great Artist (meh), or a Great Engineer. Guess which one I got?
Woot! I love GEs. I finished the Three Gorges Dam a few turns early to further rush the infrastructure I was now focusing on in my cities.
Meanwhile, overseas, Churchill now had Artillery and Tanks to poor Alexander's Riflemen. So as you can imagine, he captured several Greek cities, and Alexander, finally and inevitably, capitulated:
One turn later, I got a bit of a surprise when I checked the diplomatic advisor, because Churchill now had two vassals!
Obviously, Isabella submitted willingly to Churchill. (Okay, more disturbing imagery there.) So now if I want to war with any of them, I'll be warring with all of them. I think this argues in favour of pursuing a space race win, but we can discuss that shortly, of course.
Meanwhile, I continued capturing cities, and wonders:
Notre Dame was a welcome addition, since it immediately helped with mounting war weariness. The Hagia Sophia is obsolete, of course, but the Kremlin is not. I foresee a change to Universal Suffrage before too long; the extra hammers are very useful for the space race. I decided to start accumulating gold by running the science slider a little lower than I needed to.
And then I captured Sigtuna and another wonder:
The Statue of Liberty. Niiiiiice. It was awfully thoughtful of Ragnar to build all those wonders for me, don't you think?
Finally, in 1894, my amphibious force proved its worth by capturing two Viking cities in the same turn:
I can't recall ever doing that before. Another advantage of the Syrian doctrine. Ragnar had several Infantry outside of Lodose, which I killed, partly for the XPs. I'm now 8 XPs away from my next (and probably final) Great General, so I'm thinking of capturing the last two Viking cities on that northern island in order to get him. I thought I might build a Military Academy in Madras with him.
So I now, at long last, own my continent. Phew! It took a lot longer than it usually does. I'll follow this post with a "state of the world" update, then we can discuss victory conditions and how to best achieve them.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
The State of the World, 1984 AD
Let's start with a look at the map:
My Fast Workers are now focusing on tile improvements around my captured, formerly Viking cities. I've built some cottages--kind of running on auto-pilot there--but I'll need to switch to Emancipation soon if I want them to grow. Perhaps I should focus on Watermills instead, for the space race production? It's not too late to shift gears.
Current civics:
I won't change anything until the war with Ragnar is done and I know I won't have to worry about war weariness anymore. Then I'm thinking of going to US, Free Speech, Emancipation, and Free Religion. I love the Spiritual trait--that would normally cost me 4 turns of anarchy at this point!
Relations:
Well, I think a diplomatic victory is a non-starter! Churchill has me there. I'm sending a boatload of spies over his way. He's several techs away from Mass Media, but if I see him (or anyone else) building the UN, I'll probably have to sabotage it. Yet another reason to sock away some dough.
Resources:
See? That's the "sugar and spice" I want from Isabella! Get your minds out of the gutter, will you?
I'll see about relieving Alexander of that 3 GPT once he's willing to talk to me again. The guy is not very forgiving, have you noticed that?
Techs, first vis-a-vis Ragnar:
Yeah, he does have Industrialism, but near as I can tell, only managed to produce one Marine, who is now pushin' up the daisies.
And techs compared to Churchill:
Yeah, I think if I want to go for a space race victory, it's in the bag. We won't even look at Isabella's or Alexander's techs, since they're well behind Winston.
Current trade deals:
The Military Advisor:
Like I said, 8 XPs to go for a Great General, and Ragnar has 2 cities with 6 units. I may have to take some chances and risk losing a few units to get the XPs required. But is it worth it? Hang on, we'll come back to that...
Now, down to brass tacks. Victory conditions:
So I've got a ways to go if I want to hit those markers for a domination win. It doesn't help that I've been whipping away Viking citizens when my new cities come out of revolt. Ungrateful swine.
The power chart. I love this one.
I love the jump you get in this chart when you pull the Vassalage/Theocracy queue build trick. Look how I leapt ahead of Ragnar and Churchill so quickly! I think almost every one of my cities churned out a Tank on the first turn after the civics change, and a Marine on the turn after that. I need to write this technique up and put it in my Intermediate Tactics and Gambits article.
It looks like Winston got Industrialism around 1864, maybe, and he's been climbing in power ever since. Everyone else has declined or flat-lined.
Demographics:
I'm number one in almost every category, except... huh. Population? What gives there? According to the victory condition screen, I have a greater % of the world's population than Churchill, but here, I'm apparently #2 in that regard. Anyone care to explain that to me?
Top 5 Cities and Wonders:
Dang. Winnie's been a busy boy, hasn't he?
Now, on to our main decisions. First off, Ragnar will capitulate if I want him to:
And here's the territory he has left:
So... should I vassalize him or eliminate him? I certainly have the forces to take him out, and I'll probably earn that next GG along the way, if I play my cards right. With two amphibious invasions, I should be able to count on two units, minimum, earning 2 XPs in their battles.
On the other hand, I could make him my vassal and just get the damn war over with. I could then switch civics and start focusing on getting the space ship flying ASAP. The thing is, though, what does Ragnar really bring to me in a vassal relationship? Especially since I've left him so crippled?
And should we go after a space race win? It seems like the easiest from this point. I could take on the other continent, I guess, but to be honest, gang, warring with Ragnar kind of wore me out. aelf gets to these points too, in his EMC games, where the end is in sight and it just makes sense to get there. This round took the better part of a week to complete because of all the micromanagement required by a modern army in Civ IV. If I take on Churchill and his two pets, we'll be here well into the new year!
I say we go for space race, finish the game in the next round, and move on. But I am, of course, willing to entertain dissenting opinions, as always. Oh, and what should I do with Ragnar? Inquiring minds want to know!
Let's start with a look at the map:
My Fast Workers are now focusing on tile improvements around my captured, formerly Viking cities. I've built some cottages--kind of running on auto-pilot there--but I'll need to switch to Emancipation soon if I want them to grow. Perhaps I should focus on Watermills instead, for the space race production? It's not too late to shift gears.
Current civics:
I won't change anything until the war with Ragnar is done and I know I won't have to worry about war weariness anymore. Then I'm thinking of going to US, Free Speech, Emancipation, and Free Religion. I love the Spiritual trait--that would normally cost me 4 turns of anarchy at this point!
Relations:
Well, I think a diplomatic victory is a non-starter! Churchill has me there. I'm sending a boatload of spies over his way. He's several techs away from Mass Media, but if I see him (or anyone else) building the UN, I'll probably have to sabotage it. Yet another reason to sock away some dough.
Resources:
See? That's the "sugar and spice" I want from Isabella! Get your minds out of the gutter, will you?
I'll see about relieving Alexander of that 3 GPT once he's willing to talk to me again. The guy is not very forgiving, have you noticed that?
Techs, first vis-a-vis Ragnar:
Yeah, he does have Industrialism, but near as I can tell, only managed to produce one Marine, who is now pushin' up the daisies.
And techs compared to Churchill:
Yeah, I think if I want to go for a space race victory, it's in the bag. We won't even look at Isabella's or Alexander's techs, since they're well behind Winston.
Current trade deals:
The Military Advisor:
Like I said, 8 XPs to go for a Great General, and Ragnar has 2 cities with 6 units. I may have to take some chances and risk losing a few units to get the XPs required. But is it worth it? Hang on, we'll come back to that...
Now, down to brass tacks. Victory conditions:
So I've got a ways to go if I want to hit those markers for a domination win. It doesn't help that I've been whipping away Viking citizens when my new cities come out of revolt. Ungrateful swine.
The power chart. I love this one.
I love the jump you get in this chart when you pull the Vassalage/Theocracy queue build trick. Look how I leapt ahead of Ragnar and Churchill so quickly! I think almost every one of my cities churned out a Tank on the first turn after the civics change, and a Marine on the turn after that. I need to write this technique up and put it in my Intermediate Tactics and Gambits article.
It looks like Winston got Industrialism around 1864, maybe, and he's been climbing in power ever since. Everyone else has declined or flat-lined.
Demographics:
I'm number one in almost every category, except... huh. Population? What gives there? According to the victory condition screen, I have a greater % of the world's population than Churchill, but here, I'm apparently #2 in that regard. Anyone care to explain that to me?
Top 5 Cities and Wonders:
Dang. Winnie's been a busy boy, hasn't he?
Now, on to our main decisions. First off, Ragnar will capitulate if I want him to:
And here's the territory he has left:
So... should I vassalize him or eliminate him? I certainly have the forces to take him out, and I'll probably earn that next GG along the way, if I play my cards right. With two amphibious invasions, I should be able to count on two units, minimum, earning 2 XPs in their battles.
On the other hand, I could make him my vassal and just get the damn war over with. I could then switch civics and start focusing on getting the space ship flying ASAP. The thing is, though, what does Ragnar really bring to me in a vassal relationship? Especially since I've left him so crippled?
And should we go after a space race win? It seems like the easiest from this point. I could take on the other continent, I guess, but to be honest, gang, warring with Ragnar kind of wore me out. aelf gets to these points too, in his EMC games, where the end is in sight and it just makes sense to get there. This round took the better part of a week to complete because of all the micromanagement required by a modern army in Civ IV. If I take on Churchill and his two pets, we'll be here well into the new year!
I say we go for space race, finish the game in the next round, and move on. But I am, of course, willing to entertain dissenting opinions, as always. Oh, and what should I do with Ragnar? Inquiring minds want to know!
Lance of Llanwy
King
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2006
- Messages
- 710
Finish off Ragnar so happiness is never a problem in your Viking lands, and then just gear up for a Space Race with your cushy tech lead and peace....
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 3,663
Sisiutil said:
Maybe in one of the big cities. Otherwise I wouldn't bother, since I believe that you are going to be tech throttled, rather than production throttled. I don't believe that having three big production powerhouses is going to produce a faster finish than two. You've got one to handle the big pieces, and a second to ensure that the big pieces don't get queued behind something.
I would take the time to get them up to full size. And it doesn't look to me as though you are going to get a Great Engineer at any time that matters (golden age, perhaps), so I'd put the bodies on the ground at Kyoto.
aelf
Ashen One
If you want to go for space race, you should've saved that GE for the expensive Space Elevator. Without the Industrious trait, that wonder might take a little too long to build from scratch (especially since you may not have the right cities in the right locations to build it). You would probably win without it anyway, but don't you want a faster win?
Anyway, I think you should just go for it and win before the year ends. A new game for the new year
Anyway, I think you should just go for it and win before the year ends. A new game for the new year
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
A good point. I probably will get at least one more GE (from Fusion), and perhaps one other from one of a handful of cities close to producing Great People, but I can't count on that. But you're bang-on, I won't be getting a GE out of Kyoto, so the engineers will become farmers. I'm sure they'll enjoy the sunshine and the fresh air.
As I mentioned, I should be getting a GE from Fusion, so I could use him for the Space Elevator if one of my production powerhouses isn't at the right latitude to complete it in good time on its own. Kyoto and Satsuma are a little ways south, after all. That may rule out a spaceship-rushing golden age, however.If you want to go for space race, you should've saved that GE for the expensive Space Elevator. Without the Industrious trait, that wonder might take a little too long to build from scratch (especially since you may not have the right cities in the right locations to build it). You would probably win without it anyway, but don't you want a faster win?
Anyway, I think you should just go for it and win before the year ends. A new game for the new year
I'll be getting a great person very soon out of Kyoto, I believe--probably a Great Prophet in a couple of turns. I'll then check to see where the next GP will come from, and how soon. Patak, IIRC, was also very close to producing a GP, so if they produce two different types in good time, I could use them for a GA.
By the way, I've never run Organized Religion this late and seen its synergy with the Three Gorges Dam before. It's a pretty awesome combination.
TheArchduke
Feeling at home..
Despite having a 2-city vassal Ragnar on an island might be quite funny, I would advise against it, as you won´t have any happiness problems and higher productivity in your new conquests.
Just crush him and off to space.
Just crush him and off to space.
carl corey
Deity
Yeah, making him a vassal won't help you at all, and it will only make things worse between you and the other AIs. I'd say finish him off, get that new Great General and then go for space race. This way if the others declare on you you'll be advantaged by getting the GG and there will be no "we want to join our motherland" unhappiness.
why a space race?
You're miles away from your opponents in production.
None of them can stop you.
I'd go for Isabella and alex :
- finishing alex off first would be damn quick!
- then withstand the counterattack from Churchill (rushing a airport in those cities would be easy enough)
- then finish off (or capitulate, she'll be free from winston in no time!) Isabella
- then withstand another counterattack
- then dominate the world.
The culture slider is your best friend in this situation, since without it, you won't have culture in those new cities.
You're miles away from your opponents in production.
None of them can stop you.
I'd go for Isabella and alex :
- finishing alex off first would be damn quick!
- then withstand the counterattack from Churchill (rushing a airport in those cities would be easy enough)
- then finish off (or capitulate, she'll be free from winston in no time!) Isabella
- then withstand another counterattack
- then dominate the world.
The culture slider is your best friend in this situation, since without it, you won't have culture in those new cities.
sylvanllewelyn
Perma-newb
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2006
- Messages
- 2,034
I would still vote for conquest, because you don't really have the production for domination or space race. I'm actually worried that you might be outraced by spaceship production. See, you might not be AIMING for conquest, but you certainly need to slow the other continent down. A diplomatic defeat won't be pretty either. It would be logistically easier to go for the nuke-->attack-->raze on as many coastal cities as possible, to hell with relations.
Plus, if you insist on space race, you need fission for fusion.
Plus, if you insist on space race, you need fission for fusion.
Dr Elmer Jiggle
King
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 811
You don't need to worry about Churchill building the UN. He needs 62% of the population to win, so you need 38% to stalemate the vote. You already have 48%, so there's nothing to be concerned about. There will be no diplomatic victories in this game unless you do something stupid and vote for Churchill yourself.
aelf
Ashen One
Space race is not as much about production as some of you think. It's about getting the order of the techs right and building the right things at the right places (preferably at the same time). Space Elevator, labs and aluminium all help you to build the parts. That's why I advocate using that GE for the Space Elevator (the one from Fusion would probably come too late). With that wonder and a little tech lead, you needn't worry about not building the parts fast enough. Too late about the GE, though. Still, it's very possible, since Sisiutil has enough of a tech lead.
aelf
Ashen One
Forgot to mention that a late game golden age would help with production too. If only this thing would let me edit my post.
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