ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar

[Porphyrius]

Fully isolated and semi isolated mean quite different planning.
Having contact with just one AI means the GW and GSpy are a very attractive proposition. Otherwise fortifying the choke point should prove suffice and save lots of .
For the GL this also means less with no AIs to receive trade with.

The oracle is actually more attractive than usual as REXing or general early need for production is lessened by the map. Plus we are in no pressure to get military techs.
That is IF we get it, cause with no marble at this difficulty its anything but safe to assume.

Pyramids look even more attractive than usual. Theres enough food for SE/HE as mostly anticipated and issues will come to be, though not to the extreme.


BTW, the 3 resources available are (plus a sea oriented map has high likelihood for whales) tied to markets mean they are a priority along with currency, so i'd rather get CoL through that even if wine needs monarchy.
Other than that yup optics beeline.


Lastly i think city #2 should be a production city that starts any wonders as Nidaros makes settlers/workers based on its food surplus. Followed by the 3 fish city that should duplicate Nidaros at making workers/settlers.
Hopefully we'll get either horses or copper so that less military is needed. Too bad about the furs placement, i mean theres not even a single farmable grass tile around.

 

[Ultimocrat]

How about the following as a tentative dotmap? Red dot as second city, probably the best cottage city on the map -- 14 or 15, depending on how the rice is chain irrigated, if I count correctly. Green dot or Nidaros both make quite good GP farms -- green dot with potentially 8 specialists at pop. 12 (3 fish + irrigated FP); Nidaros with 8 specialists at size 13 (4 clams + irrigated FP). Blue and yellow dots have good commerce potential, with cottages + coast tiles; each also has decent production potential.

 

[Andvare]

What about a city N-NE of the southernmost clams (ivory+clams)? And so moving the Yellow one, one west (clams for fish)?

 

[CivCorpse]

How about the following as a tentative dotmap? Red dot as second city, probably the best cottage city on the map -- 14 or 15, depending on how the rice is chain irrigated, if I count correctly. Green dot or Nidaros both make quite good GP farms -- green dot with potentially 8 specialists at pop. 12 (3 fish + irrigated FP); Nidaros with 8 specialists at size 13 (4 clams + irrigated FP). Blue and yellow dots have good commerce potential, with cottages + coast tiles; each also has decent production potential.

I like the red dot as a production/troop city. Especially if we are running specialists in Nidaros and green dot. Cottage Blue and yellw and a city on the island with the sugar or silk, not sure which one it is. But reddot has good food with the rice, cows, some grasslands and a flood plain and is the only city with a decent number of hills. I would also build a city up in beaverville. It can work coastal tiles and ignore the furry friends. We don't need to work them to get the , but if we use the oracle for MC and the colossus, then they we can work 5-6 ocean and coast, for about 20 commerce. If we are isolated, those extra commerce will help.

On KMad's comment on galleys being able to enter ocean if culturally owned. If we are isolated, we should plant a city on the extreme od our empire and let it work artists under CoL until we get a 2nd border pop. That may get us to a chain of island or another main one. Or bump another civs borders if they get a 2nd pop.

 

[ifinnem]

If I count correctly then green dot has a total of 5 production without moai statues so it may need a rethink
I agree with the suggestion that red should be the production city
The tradeoff is then less space to cottage in which case colossus becomes more important?

 

[oyzar]

Red dot first. Don't build a ship yet, get some workers and red dot out first. Red dot will then settle your continent(assuming you have the techs, get BW to reveal bronze and AH to reveal horses before barbs become a problem!! You don't have all the time in the world... You shouldn't be worried about barbs on that hut, but on your own island! Beelining astronomy seems like a must.

 

[CivSetä]

I think this start screams for pyramids. Try it after Great Lighthouse, you will have so many specialists in both capital and that fishing village! Hybrid economy is the way to go!

 

[Gliese 581]

Don't worry about not getting the pyramids if you want it, with stone already hooked up it's not likely an AI will beat you to it, you can make a settler and build the other wonders first. I'd say chop two trees in the bfc for TGL then chop as many trees as possible for The Oracle to make sure you get them both. Stonehenge and/or GW can be gotten but you should probably skip them if you want both the marble wonders.

Edit: Oh and about the DOT-map, five river tiles are not being worked, something must be done.

 

[EEE_BOY]

Considering that you lack of happiness resourse, the pyramid is too much helpful in this case for the +3 happy faces. stonehenge is not necessary if u beeline astronomy. Great wall for Gspy again? please....

the tree around the blue spot could be chopped to get the pyramid done. and the capital should focus on the Great Lightening house. DO get the GL and the colossus.

the oracle probably .....fail, and waste a lot research climing up the religious techs.

the red spot should be 1NW to make the city coastal and benefit from the extra trade routes.

 

[TM Moot]

settle red, then green/blue/yellow depending upon if any copper/horses? appear

i wouldn't bother with GW or Oracle, GLighthouse/Colussus would be good

most improtantly, send out the boats and see what's out there!

 

[cabert]

with the high level of seafood that you have, + the wine, I'd say go for monarchy and don't bother with the pyramids to begin with.
If after 4 cities, you have no good thing to build, it's still time to get them.

 

[fizbankovi]

I think you should build:
1 Stonehenge
2 Settler for Red dot
3 Find a religion with monotheism
4 Galley and settler for island
5 Pyramids
6 Moai Statues for capitol
7 Wonder spam in capitol and settle priests
8 Beaurocracy + maoi + settled priests + cottage spam in capitol

9 Great wall and great lighthouse are a must if you are not isolated, you should not build either of them if you are.

10 Settle whole island

 

[Fetch]

Don't forget that with all that water barb galleys will appear. Be sure to keep a galley around to protect your clams.

 

[popejubal]

You have Beaver, Elephants, Wine and Silk available as happy resources. That's not too bad on an Archepelago. Grab a religion and you'll have another from the state religion and a second from temples. That's enough to keep you happy up to a pretty decent size. You aren't going to trade Fish, Crab or Clams to anyone on an Archepelago map, but you can trade the Jumbos for a couple of happy or healthy resources do different trading partners once you find them (or once you learn Astronomy) if you need.

Since there's a decent chance that you won't have any partners until Astronomy, I do think it's important to get a relatively early religion. That means Oracle is more within reach than it would be if you could afford to completely ignore religion and you can grab Metal Casting without too much of a headache. Tech to Optics soon after that and you at least have tech trading partners and people to spy on. Caravels can carry spies and a missionary to make the spying cheaper, so you can backfill like crazy if you do decide to beeline a bit.

My plan:
Get a religion.
Develop your land.
Build stone-accelerated wonders (Stonehenge, Pyramids, Great Wall, others as you happen to grab them).
Build Moai Statues on some dumpy little island with a couple of seafood.
Discover Optics
Crank out Caravels, spies and missionarieslike there's no tomorrow.
Spy your way to greatness.
Liberalism to nab Astronomy.

You can probably add "Rex like a demented bunny" in there, but I would take some time for wonders in your capitol since this map is just screaming out for a specialist economy to me. Lots of food with one tiny river and no precious metals in the entire map so far.

 

[JujuLautre]

fizbankovi > you cannot place blue and pink at te same time on your dotmap.

 

[Munch]

Edit: Oh and about the DOT-map, five river tiles are not being worked, something must be done.

Agreed. River tiles are particularly critical for this situation!

Attached is my suggestion for a dot-map of city placement near to Nidaros.

# 5 coastal cities (and 1 landlocked one) for leveraging the Great Lighthouse.
# All land tiles up to the tundra worked.
# Practically all water tiles (for Financial benefit) worked.
# Each city has a food resource.
# Most cities can be irrigated.
# Most cities get reasonable production, but the fishy wine town will suffer. But hey, who would pass up going to a place with 3 fish and a wine? Sounds like a party to me! Seriously though, forget the hammers there, or build Maoi for a cool 13 from the sea.

I've never built Maoi in anything but a small island settlement, to boost an otherwise no-hammer city to a decent-production city. I'm intrigued to see what Sisiutil decides to do with Maoi (and city placement); no doubt it will be incredibly important in this game.

PS. For simplicity and comparison I've kept the blue and green city sites from the original dot map as blue and green in my dot map, all others are different colours.

 

[Chrispy]

I've stayed out of the stone/1E debate, as it was a tough call and I wasn't sure which way to go. The good news is that we now see two potential GP farms. I like Ultimocrat's dotmap, and agree the Red site should be the priority. I also like it because it's 5 cities for the moment in proximity to the capital, which should keep maintenance down. The fur will be an economic drain, and the city has little chance to grow.

I know you've gone for sailing and masonry, but I don't know if TGL will be as helpful IF there are no other civs to trade with. I agree with those saying Stonehenge would be good for the culture pops, and an eventual prophet could help get Christianity, a shrine, or be settled for the economy.

Looking at the capital and the green city, one should get the National Epic and the other get Moai. Given the increased production in the capital over green, I'd say Nidaros gets Moai and green gets the National Epic in time. Plus, Nidaros has more financial potential: all 4 clams are coastal for 3 gold; the 3 fish are ocean for 1 gold. Both point to green as the National Epic city.

Mysticism (for Stonehenge) and Bronze Working would be my priorities.

 

[Zanttu]

If I count correctly then green dot has a total of 5 production without moai statues so it may need a rethink

It's ment to be a GP Farm, so it doesnt really need production. The most important buildings can always be whipped.

 

[madscientist]

I will be following the game closely but will not post as I did run a shadow game and do not want to inadvertantly spoil the fun.

Best of luck with this game Sis.

 

[Zanttu]

I like Ultimocrats dotmap, after moving the yellow city 1W and placing a new one on the plains spot 1W of the grassland hill to claim the clams and ivory. I would also settle a junk city to claim those furs and as many coast tiles as possible. I wouldn't build TGLighthouse, because there's not going to be much of trading post-astronomy, and AI tends to build it really early on this kind of maps.. Pyramids should be more of a priority, and some kind of hybrid economy by running representation could work well. That's because there is no point in running HR if there's no neighbours and no need for military. First you should maybe push for oracle for the MC-slingshot. Then Pyramids+Colossus.