ALC Game 21: Zulus/Shaka

Ok it's settled. We don't want Wang to break off, so we take Wang out and hold onto Wang. :mischief:

Are we also going to go to war with the Koreans?? :D

OK this joke has definitely petered out. Can't believe we had de gaulle to drag it out this long.
 
I agree with the capitulation of Washington now, while he's still an effective vassal and has the production capability to attack Peter later if necessary. With some strategic tech trades to Washington, he could hurt Peter when that war occurs.

Regarding possible recolonization, razing Portland and Seattle was a good idea, but there's a good production city to be built on that plains hill. 2 riverside ivory camps and grassland copper will be very useful here, and there are 2 flood plains and 2 riverside grasslands that are farmed and could be kept or turned into watermills if necessary. I'd settle there quickly before Washington does.

I'm a big fan of trading Economics to push free market, but trading to Hammurabi is the wrong move if you are trading to get Constitution and use the Representation/Mercantilism combination. Better to bulb it and push through Constitution yourself. Would it be better to settle the Merchant in Cuzco in preparation for Wall Street instead of bulbing? With the gold piled up here, I doubt it.
 
Ok it's settled. We don't want Wang to break off, so we take Wang out and hold onto Wang. :mischief:

Are we also going to go to war with the Koreans?? :D

OK this joke has definitely petered out. Can't believe we had de gaulle to drag it out this long.

Don't go Russian off now. There are still more bad Peter jokes than you could Shaka stick at!

Stop me before I pun again!!! :eek:

On an unrelated note: I find the 'try vassalizing Korea without fighting him' idea intriguing. I'd vote for that as an idea (if it would work). This is a good lesson on vassalization etiquette.
 
Vassalize Washington, and then aim for Wang Kon.

Not DeGaulle, because it's a bigger jump militarily. Despite the diplomatic points situation, we are getting closer to the end of the game, when rivals will not care anymore about diplomatic points...just like Obama and Clinton cursing under their lips while smiling at each other.
 
I always know when it's been too long between game updates when you people start cracking jokes. :lol: Sorry for the delay, but real life has intruded and kept me busy over the last several days. I should be able to post the next update on Wednesday night.

After thinking about it, I rather like the idea of just vassalizing Washington and getting on with the next target. I'm still wavering between France and Korea. Artichoker makes a good point about it being a big jump, but OTOH, a bigger target is easier to hit, no?
 
I should be able to post the next update on Wednesday night.

:drool:

After thinking about it, I rather like the idea of just vassalizing Washington and getting on with the next target.

:(

You're one turn from taking Chicago and ~3 turns from taking New York. I'd much rather see you take them both, but please at least claim Chicago. It won't slow your main stack down and has great future economic potential.

I'm still wavering between France and Korea. Artichoker makes a good point about it being a big jump, but OTOH, a bigger target is easier to hit, no?

I'm not keen on the game mechanics of Capitulation, so this is food for thought and a question for anyone who may know the answer:

If you attack France, is Korea more likely to Capitulate to them (b/c France is more likely to accept them and minimize their front)? Or will Korea be hardened in their resolve to fight the good fight with you on their side? :confused:
 
Hi

One thing to consider though bout taking cities from civ you plan to vassalize in the end is will those cities end up being swamped in your vassal's culture?

Kaytie
 
A warlords patch meant that you always take control of tiles nearer to your cities than your vassals, so you "always win" a culture battle nearer to your city than theirs.

However....

* Cities can revolt constantly due to culture. You need to put a ton of troops in the city to prevent this. If the city is unhappy it makes the revolt % chance higher (double?). You'll never lose a city to a culture flip from your vassal though (you can be flipped by another civ though)
* You get "we yearn to rejoin our motherland" unhappiness which can be quite bad, it depends on city size and nationality % I think (you do get +1 happiness in every city from having a vassal though)

EDIT: Oh, and in BtS you get annoying popups saying do you want to liberate the city (i.e. give it back to the vassal). This happens quite often.
 
If you attack France, is Korea more likely to Capitulate to them (b/c France is more likely to accept them and minimize their front)? Or will Korea be hardened in their resolve to fight the good fight with you on their side? :confused:

Murphy's Law says France will vassalize Korea almost immediately after you attack it, it being either state unless you bribe them to peace first. :D

Korea looks dangerously close to capitulation right now and that would be an almost game-breaking development. Too big a risk IMO...
 
Ah, yes, but I'd have to adopt FR first and loose the diplo bonuses myself. If I were Spiritual, I'd consider it, but as has been pointed out, Shaka is not Spiritual.[/QUOTE]


Yes, a bad oversight on my part :blush: . Guess thats why im still at the lower levels :)

Carry on then...
 
Hammurabi appears to be a vassal of Peter's. That's why his score is higher and Hammurabi's is lower. Vassalise Washington, move onto Wang Kong, then France after that and hope Ham and Pete will just sit and watch you win the game.

This way should France vassalise Korea, its not going to matter, you are going to war with them anyway.
 
Round 7: 1565 AD to 1610 AD (9 turns)

9 turns?!? Shortest ALC round on record!

Yeah, a short round. I moved past a number of previously-discussed decision points in short order, and now face a few larger, more challenging ones. (I've also been busy and am feeling kind of tired, so I didn't want to do too much lest I make a questionable decision or ten.)

To start off with, I decided that I should, indeed, refrain from trading with Hammurabi as much as possible. Since I'm flush with cash, that meant forgoing a trade mission (which are not that lucrative on a land-based map anyway--1950 gold, max). So I used the Great Merchant to help research the tasty tech Hammy was holding out to me:

ALC21_1610AD_01.jpg


This way, with "no tech brokering on", I'll be able to trade Constitution myself, and without giving Hammy too much of a tech advantage.

I also decided to follow OTAKUjbski's advice to capture two more American cities.

ALC21_1610AD_02.jpg


And, to hold off any decisions regarding Korea and France, I played peacemaker, albeit a decidedly Machiavellian one.

ALC21_1610AD_03.jpg



OTAKUjbski made a stellar call on what Peter was going to do with Chicago. Look how close he came to taking the city himself!

ALC21_1610AD_04.jpg


As it was, I lost two units (the Cat and one Knight) to take the city. Given the low health levels of Peter's units, I don't think he could have done it on the next turn. So hats off to OTAKUjbski and his opportunistic streak! I've had the AI pull this stunt on me in a couple of games, so it's nice to get some of my own back.

Okay, Peter, your job here is done. Take your new toy and run along home like a good boy, will you?

ALC21_1610AD_05.jpg


Why take chances that George will capitulate to him rather than me?

On the next turn, I captured another choice American city:

ALC21_1610AD_06.jpg


On the next turn, I also razed this annoying little burg Washington had founded right outside Tiwanaku, since with all the other potential masters out of the picture, I had some time. But after that, I called it quits. It was time to reign in the dogs of war, at least the ones baying for American blood:

ALC21_1610AD_07.jpg


As some of you suggested, I liberated Philadelphia back to George. I think that will prove to be a good decision, as Peter went and founded a city nearby in the empty space I'd created by razing some American cities:

ALC21_1610AD_08.jpg


I would have had a culture battle to hang on to Philadelphia's tiles, especially the pigs, but for America, it's no contest. I think that Russian city may end up culture-flipping, especially since I'm going to put pressure on it from the other side:

ALC21_1610AD_09.jpg


It will likely flip to America. George can either raze it, which is fine by me, or keep it, which is also fine, because as master to his vassal, my cultural borders win. Of course, if I end up going to war with Peter, I'll just raze the stupid thing. One way or another, that copper tile will eventually belong to Nongoma.

That's pretty much where this short round ended. Oh, except Peter is offering me a deal:

ALC21_1610AD_10.jpg


It looks like a good one to me, since Replaceable Parts is a pre-req to Rifling, and notice how Peter is close to finishing that dangerous tech. What do you think?

George, I should mention, is refusing to trade Chemistry to me, so I lightbulbed most of it with the Great Scientist I popped this round. Krikkitone was talking about either a Grens/Cannon or Rifles/Cavalary combo, but my preference is for Rifles and Cannon. Rifles are great for capturing and defending cities (as well as protecting a stack), while Cannon excel at whittling down opposition. RP leads to the former, Chemistry to Steel for the latter.

So let's get into the decision points.

The big one is still who to attack next, which is really related to the biggest question of all, how to go about winning the game.

(By the way, an AP vote came up and, yes, I decided to try winning an early diplomatic victory. The shame! Well, it didn't pan out. Everyone but George voted for Hammurabi, and that wasn't enough votes for him or me to carry the day. It's just as well, I know you all want to see a blood-soaked Zulu victory, but like I said, I was tired tonight.)

So the options are Wang Kon (who will not voluntarily capitulate, BTW), De Gaulle, or Peter. Peter isn't far from having Rifles, and De Gaulle is researching Replaceable Parts, so he isn't far off either. I think a war with either of them would have to wait until I have Rifles myself, and possibly Cannon for an advantage as well. I should probably stop deficit researching so I have money to upgrade some of my best units. The advantage of going after Wang Kon is, obviously, that I can do so right away, with the stack I have. So maybe that's the way to go, and when I have Wang in hand... er, vassalized... then I should have some other military techs to allow me to go after either France or Russia. Taking Wang's cities would also give me more $$$ for upgrades, too.

In terms of power, I'm not too far away from the leaders, but once Peter has Rifling, that will change:

ALC21_1610AD_15.jpg


Civics is another item to be decided.

ALC21_1610AD_11.jpg


I think changing to Representation is an obvious choice. I built some happy buildings to help with war weariness in this round--markets and theatres, mostly--so losing the HR garrison-boost won't be such a big deal. Remember I also have silver and incense from George now, too.

Now what about the other civics? Do I stay with Bureaucracy to keep leveraging the capital's cottages, or switch to something else? Keep in mind I lost a few turns to anarchy in the previous round for the military queue build, so I have to be careful about any more of those. If I change civics, I want to stick with them for some time. Frankly, Nationalism looks attractive for the happy boost from the UB and for drafting once I have Rifling. We should choose a good food-rich city for the Globe Theatre to be used as my main drafting source.

Economically, it's either Mercantilism or Free Market. Here's the civics the AI civs are currently running:

ALC21_1610AD_12.jpg


So many of the AIs are running Mercantilism, but keep in mind that Peter and De Gaulle also have Economics and Wang isn't far away from it, so any of them could switch to Free Market at any time. Then again, I'm running a SE (pretty much), so additional free specialists are very attractive.

Finally, here's a look at the victory conditions:

ALC21_1610AD_14.jpg


So it's taken me all this time and effort just to be neck-and-neck with Peter for a domination win. Good thing I kept him from taking any more American territory. I've got a tough row to hoe in order to get that domination win, so I guess I'd better get cracking.
 

Attachments

I think that if Khabarovsk culture flips to America and George decides to keep it, it will become your city and not his, with the option of "liberating" it to America.
 
You're pretty much playing against my recommandations (not that that's really a problem) so I'm gonna wait to see how this pans out. I'd have gone for Replaceable Parts/Rifling first and gone to war right then, using the culture slider to combat War Weariness instead of building Jails (which cost hammers + a GM + beakers to finish Constitution). Using the GM for a (however small) trade mission would also have helped. That way you could probably have had two wars (Hammy and Wang) before needing to regroup and rebuild the economy. Now you'll be facing at least one civ with Rifling if not more by the time you get all the military techs you want. Hope it still works out.
 
Just a point from a lurker: being in mercantilism, you still get trade routes from your vassal(s), consider that

If that´s true, then you could maybe capitulate Wang fast and choose representation, nationalism, mercantilism and maybe theo... or go with just rep.& nat.?

Just my 0.0133€
 
Nice round! Short and sweet. Wang is still my favorite next target for all the reasons mentioned before. Besides... suppose you do go to war with De Gaulle and he does get rifling soon? It's not an outrageous possibility because he's got a lot of land and the war would likely drag out for a while. Like you said, you can also take out Wang with your current stack and make some quick cash in the deal.

Representation would be a nice civic to have. Nationhood too. The economic civic is a tougher choice, but I'd vote for mercantilism here because of the synergy with representation and your chosen method of victory in this game.

Thanks for slogging this out despite feeling crummy! I think it must be the weather...I've been feeling down for a while now too. Is it spring yet?
 
Given that you took the time to force peace with Wang and Chas, I say leverage that decision by moving against Korea with your current army. Waiting overly long might see tensions rise up again there - or having someone else go after him with his low power rating.

Further, he's probably still hurting from defending and can be taken/capitulated quickly. I like capitulating financial civs and directing research for them.

With Liberalism out there and spreading, perhaps we'll see more Free Religion people come about - making less of a diplo crunch for future wars.

I'm terrible with civics, but seems like representation at least should be considered. You have two High-Upkeep on board right now (Bureaucracy and OR), so you might consider switching out of one or both - perhaps Nationalism and Theocracy would be a good synergy. I'll defer to better players on the civics deal.
 
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