ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin

[ratrangerm]

I think the suggestion to move the Settler 1SW is a good idea. You'd still get the Stone and Pigs in the BFC and you'd still have a plains hill as well.

I'd then build a Warrior for added exploration, a Worker, and then maybe go for Stonehenge right away. It might be worth the risk to put it third in the queue.

I'd agree with madscientist's tech path, unless you have a grain resource. And yes, I think you should go for Archery, because this is supposed to be about using Saladin's traits.

Besides, any Archers you build that gain additional promotions can be upgraded to Crossbowmen when you get Machinery and then used to defend your military stacks against opposing melee units. If you are able to get Archers with added Drill promotions or City Garrison promotions, you'll end up with Crossbowmen who are either going to get several possible first strikes to make it harder on AI melee units, or city defenders who will make holding onto captured cities that much easier.

That being said, I would get BW after you get Archery... you've got plenty of trees to chop down.

 

[Jet]

well spotted

Thanks - but now that I see it in-game, I take it back. The tile E-NE of the Settler has trees, not floodplains.

 

[Gliese 581]

This is one of those rare occasions were I would pop a hut with my warrior in hopes of a map and forego the chance of a free tech.

 

[Nares]

This is one of those rare occasions were I would pop a hut with my warrior in hopes of a map and forego the chance of a free tech.

Unless you decide to settle in place.

If you feel a pressing need to explore a bit, I would move the warrior 1SE and the settler 1NE. I believe this reveals the largest number of tiles of the BFC should you settle in place.

There appears to be an empty plains tile 2E of the settler's current position. Given the otherwise fully forested start (as far as we know), I think there's a good chance for a strategic resource to be hidden there.

What's more, it's four tiles from the stone, which seems to suggest that we'll find a third resource to our north or south. Hence my suggested warrior/settler moves; they reveal all but two tiles of the BFC of settling in place, while still leaving the settler in position to settle either "in place" (the current position) on the next turn, or moving closer to the stone and settling on turn 2.

Notice the trees rising into the fog on the tile 2N of the settler? That appears to be a hill. Also in favor of settling in place is that it appears to sport four non-riverside tiles. 1W offers as many as seven, by my estimate.

But I'm fairly conservative in settling in place, starting on a worker, researching worker techs, and putting my scout/warrior on auto-explore for the first dozen turns or so.

Finally, building the Pyramids is reasonably guaranteed. You may even be able to wait until Mathematics comes in. Sticking to the Pyramids, and occasionally running a scientist to help speed the GPP production, would probably be the best idea. Strongly supporting this is the (hopefully high) potential for a Great Engineer to bulb on Machinery. I wouldn't dilute my GPP at this point.

I actually wouldn't worry about archery until then, unless Bronze Working and Animal Husbandry fail to produce. I might even consider researching Agriculture to access AH, rather than Hunting, followed by Mining and Bronze Working. Remember, you have the Wheel already, and can build roads on forest tiles you plan to chop later while waiting for Animal Husbandry and/or Bronze Working to come in. I like to chop hills, with preference to riverside, for expansion, leaving riverside grassland forests to chop for wonders or troops.

 

[Calder]

Not enough information to warrant a settle in place here, but 1SW does look attractive from whats currently shown - plenty of production, commerce and food. Stone and chops should give you a quick and easy Stonehenge, though save some chops for the Oracle. And stone is handy for the later Angkor Wat, University of Sankore and Spiral - all these Prophet/Scientist GP-enabling wonders enhanced by the Madrassa, and especially the AP. Looks like you'll be off to a slow start needing to prioritise food and Bronze/chops given Saladins wayward starting techs. I would favour the food road first and go Hunting/Animal Husbandry hooking up the pigs and hopefully settling near horses for chariots/Barb guard. Then Mining/Masonry(quarry for production and stonehenge), then Bronze, followed by the Priesthood route and Writing.

 

[ese-aSH]

settle in place.
stone is not a exeptionnal tile to work, and you'll loose some river tiles.

do you need stone that early to move before settling ?? to you really intend to go for stonehenge ? (remember you don't need those GP points).
you'll get the stones soon enough for the pyramids though.

you should start with the worker : you got the road -> while waiting for BW you will be able to road the hills&forests around the capital ; the move bonus the road will give you later will compensante the few turns lost in worker production, it's really worth it.

 

[popejubal]

My fingers and toes say 4 after being quarried.

3 for plains hill, 1 for stone, 1 for quarry gives 5 hammers per turn. If it were on a river, it would be 5 hammers and 1 commerce.

A 5 hammer tile is pretty nice that early in the game and it's still a 4 hammer tile even before any improvement. It's tempting.

 

[pigswill]

IMHO what's in your immediate neighborhood (10 tiles of starting point) determines your early strategy. If you're hemmed in by 2 or 3 AIs you might be thinking about an early rush. If there's no-one around then you might want to think about barb protection.

Getting the stone in initial BFC at the very least gives you pyramids as a realistic option. Whether you pursue earlier wonders (stonehenge or great wall) will depend on what's around you.

4000bc is far too early to get into a detailed plan. You can think about a more detailed plan when you've done some scouting.

 

[Celebithil]

I think moving the warrior to pop the hut in hopes of a map is a good gamble. Even if you get a warrior/scout you can move that one in the same turn, revealing quite a bit of area. Before settling a city I believe you cannot pop barbarians anyway (and otherwise the game is over quick enough that it is not such a big waste of time to lose ).

If nothing special shows up, settle in place, there are bound to be extra resources in the BFC, and they are not located west (as we can see they're not there). Stone is not such a great tile to work.

(And to promote a ridiculous idea: How about founding an early religion after settling in place to quickly get that second border pop and the possibility of hooking up the stone?)

 

[ese-aSH]

3 for plains hill, 1 for stone, 1 for quarry gives 5 hammers per turn. If it were on a river, it would be 5 hammers and 1 commerce.

A 5 hammer tile is pretty nice that early in the game and it's still a 4 hammer tile even before any improvement. It's tempting.

these stones are not on a hill

so only 4H

 

[zombiestomp]

something that sis has proved time and again is that hammers will win the game.

that said, go mines then bronze while building a worker. then build the henge with chops while researching AH through hunting (for pigs and liberal whips), then pottery for cottages and archery for barb defense. you will need barb defense by about this time as it looks like (at this shot) they could come at any angle.

by the time you got second border pop, have masonry to hook up the stone for pyramids. with the stone and all the chops, they are yours. madrassa with representation is huge. make sure you get them. later, with angor wat, those extra specialists will own it.

getting the parthenon would be better in the long term than the oracle, but i think that you could pass on both. plus they are hard to get. the great wall is much more feasible with the stone, but with early archers (and chopping all those defensive forests) you'll be fine. i'd skip it. just build and whip archers forgetting about barracks.

i think that taking this wonderific strategy will mean that expansion suffers, and this relates to where to settle. settling one west or south-west nets an earlier stone resource and mediocre tiles. settling in place means you get extra rivers and a shot at an earlier war resource in the BFC. i think something good will be there in the east. don't move. it will slow you down. the only advantage would be earlier pyramids, which would give you, at best, extra culture. a super early war resource would allow a rush and give you something to research while waiting for your second border pop and the 'mids.

from my last few games with sal (i've been readind these threads), the best have been with an early rush, though i didin't get the 'mids. i expanded too quickly and could barely keep commerce in the black. however, i could run scientists/priests through the madrassa. if i'd had the 'mids, my research would have held up fine instead of stagnating. this was while sandwiched between mansa and alex (three initial cities). took mansa first and started having serious financial troubles.

 

[zombiestomp]

let culture pop the hut.

 

[zombiestomp]

move warrior one NW then one SW. good luck.

 

[huerfanista]

The tile 1 SW of the stone is probably an oasis (the grassland 1 S of the stone says fresh water, and the desert look of the tile to the west says to me "oasis"). I vote for moving the warrior 1 NE. Everything to the south and east looks like plains (from the look of the tile edges), whereas there seems to be more grassland to the NW. Also, there's almost certain to be another food bonus in the starting BFC, and it looks to me that it's likely to be in one of the 3 tiles to the north of the settler (although it could be in the tile 2E). Moving the warrior 1 NE will show 2 of them for sure, and perhaps give a glimpse of the third (2N1E of the settler). The tiles 2N and 2N1W of the settler can be included by settling 1W to grab the stone, and all 3 of the northernmost tiles of the starting BFC could be captured by moving 1NW (there looks to be more grassland to the NW, although you would lose the forest grassland 1SE of the settler, but the warrior would give a better idea of what's NW), as well as including the pigs and stone. I just don't like the look of the land to the south, other than the hills. There may be more hills north, which the warrior would show. In any event, either the stone or the possible strategic resource (or plains food bonus) 2E will be grabbed by the second border pop, so I don't think it makes a huge difference either way.

 

[Calder]

Settling in place will give you 15 river tiles (counting city), and looking closely at the map at how the river runs south, settling 1SW also will give you 15 river tiles, but with more production.

 

[patagonia]

Settle in place. This capital will rock later in the game with SP, a levee and IW. Only 3 tiles aren't riverside (easy enough to gauge in the fog).

Alternatively, it cries out for a cottage-spam and bureaucracy with Oxford built there later on. That'd fit quite well with chopping the pyramids and running an SE elsewhere in the empire, although you'll miss out on some growth with the lower happy cap representation gives (compared to HR). You can get the pyramids very quickly with stone outside the initial city radius if you pre-chop while you're waiting for a border pop so there's no need to waste time (and a forest) moving the settler to grab it.

A good initial path sounds like mining > bronze > hunting > AH > archery.
Build order: warrior > worker > worker (chopped) > stonehenge (chopped) > archer > archer > settler.

In the meantime, research masonry. You don't need to worry about wasted worker turns here since you can pre-chop for the pyramids if they're at a loose end. I play normal rather than epic, but the timing shouldn't be too far off.

 

[Validator]

I don't want to spoil the discussion, but you may have made a big mistake in your game settings that will require you to generate a new start. Did you really mean to set the number of continents to "Random"? This would seem to give a very high chance at being isolated, or at best having only 1 civ on the same landmass as you. There wasn't any discussion related to turning this into a Lonely Hearts game that I'm aware of.


If you do continue with this game I think you'll need to decide if you want to open up the possibility of going after SH or GW. You don't need to decide for sure now, but if you don't settle in a location that has the stone in the BFC I don't see how you can try for either. It will slow you down too much IMO, and after the last game I don't think you want to take that risk.

If you do settle to the west you can start with Mining. Once it's done you can decide at that point based on what scouting has turned up if you want to take a shot at an early wonder. If so tech Masonry next, if not go for BW next.

 

[zombiestomp]

working the pigs river tile will net an extra commerce. build a warrior first, but only if you can't research BW before you could build a worker.

getting stonehenge early means you don't have to move to have borders to claim the stone.

make sure that the worker pops one turn before BW. then chop 'henge without hooking the stone. use it for the 'mids.

 

[vicawoo]

Culture will take 150 turns to pop the hut, and you're in the middle of the map, so that's not happening.

You can wonder spam if you want, but that has absolutely nothing to do with saladin (if you win, I want another do-over), except maybe being able to run two extra priests from the madrassa.

Oh, and if you want, you can move your settler around for a few turns. It is epic.

 

[ese-aSH]

Why do you all want stonehenge ?

We wont have stone early enough to use them for stonehenge if we settle in place. And saladin is the leader that need the less the GP points : madrassa offers you great prophets if you want.