ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin

Building some units to take the two barb cities sounds like the best course of action for the moment. Once you've got up to eight cities you'll have the basis of a decent empire for at least the next thousand years. Then grow and research.

Do you go for the standardised lib beeline or maybe try something different by running lots of priests and generating prophets, bulbing theo, DR, CoL and CS while researching towards guilds.
 
Agreed with nabbing the barb cities. You should get a respectable amount of gold for both of them that will help with the maintenance costs. Horse Archers should be able to take them both.

If the borders are still open with Zara, I'd close them now. There's a good chance he'll get a Galley out to sneak around you and claim some of that territory. So getting the Iron city (and agreed with slobberinbear that it should claim the Fish for another health resource) is priority, while units are cranked out to deal with the Barb cities.

As for tech, the bear is right again... the C's are the techs to get. You might try to get Currency first and see if you can trade that. I would suspect Zara is on his way to Code of Laws and he already has Construction, so Currency is what I'd get first for trade bait, then Construction, and then see what you can do about CoL.
 
Oops, I didn't realize you didn't have iron. In that case, I'd build an army of axes & horse archers to go with your later catapults.
 
Hang on -- how come your capital doesn't have a madrassa yet? I thought it should have been a priority to have one. Was the capital busy building settlers?

Yes, everyone was urging me to hold off on madrassas in favour of a Settler for the blocking city, so that's what I did. I'll finish building the madrassa in the next round, and I'd like to sneak some in to the other cities so I can get the SE off the ground and also fight off some of Zara's cultural aggression.
 
Writing wasn't researched right away, and yes, Sisiutil was building settlers and wonders. I agree, though, that madrassas and granaries need to get built everywhere pronto -- especially in the other cities where more culture is needed and Sis is nowhere near the happy caps.
 
I must admit to being pretty worried about that blocking city. Zara's culture is already at the doorstep, and his city has been there for quite some time. Even assuming he's only got the Stele in there, I think it should border pop in another 10-15 turns. That's going to put your blocking city in revolt range - and your city isn't making any culture yet. You'll have to be very careful, and throw a large amount of troops into the city, or you might end up having it flip to Zara.

Bh
 
Zara is a wierd one. he'll be a long standing ally as long as you give in to all of his requests. especially if you share religion with him and never attack him. however if he slips to even cautious you WILL be attacked. or if he feels too boxed in.


so yeah keep your defenses up and on par with him.. or attack him as soon as it is militarily feasable. the TOA/Great lighthouse will give him a signifigant econ boost once astronomy hits.. you better take that capital before then.

give a gift to rosevelt and he'll start to warm back up again. just make sure not to send spies to him for that auto demerit if they get caught and you'll be fine in the longrun. he's hard to appease once sour but another possible long term ally.

so if you can get him to pleased by all means do so.. and turn the beatstick on zara asap.

NaZ
 
I wouldn't worry about Zara as a threat, but I'd rather look at Zara as a potential opportunity. Keep up enough troops to block any attack he'd make (which would just consist of shock axes, some horse archers for cats, and spears for elephants). On the other hand, ToA, GLH, and Stonehenge would be sweet additions to your empire, as would his cities if you're still trying to keep a bit of a triangle going with Roosevelt and Suvy.
 
Well, all three of Sisiutil's neighbours are backstabbers unfortunately, none of them can be trusted at pleased so a high power rating is going to be very important for a long time.
 
I think it will be very difficult to win without taking over at least one enemy Civ, and its cities (preferably the entire continent). Zara's cities are by far the best choice here: the distance to palace is much smaller, and it enables us to consolidate the frontline.

Definitely put me in the "you must wipe out Zara sooner or later, preferably sooner" camp.

To get full value for the army you build in order to not get backstabbed, it should be used to acquire more cities.
 
I think it will be very difficult to win without taking over at least one enemy Civ, and its cities (preferably the entire continent). Zara's cities are by far the best choice here: the distance to palace is much smaller, and it enables us to consolidate the frontline.

Definitely put me in the "you must wipe out Zara sooner or later, preferably sooner" camp.

To get full value for the army you build in order to not get backstabbed, it should be used to acquire more cities.

No, I think Zara should be used as a trading partner to gear up towards a confrontation with Sury.

Roosevelt should be weakened and used as a buffer against Sury while constantly building up an army. The Dyes and Gems on the western side of the continent should be developed to compete with Sury's commerce.
 
The problem is Zara's culture. He will start to culturally crush Arabian cities if he is not militarily dealt with. Saladin can't keep up with Zara's culture, unless Sisiutil decides to go all-out on culture, which seems unlikely.

My vote is to war with Zara, but with the UU and trebs, using the time in between to finish expansion, ramp up the economy, and establish a credible defense. Just pray that FDR can hold off Sury until then.
 
Presumably you've never followed an ALC before.
This one's heading for the record books as the longest ever, I think.

Anyone know which ALC is the current holder of that record?
 
This one's heading for the record books as the longest ever, I think.

Anyone know which ALC is the current holder of that record?

No idea but I think you're right, we're still in the BCs! :lol:
 
Round 7: 170 BC to 160 AD (22 turns)

I started the round by adjusting my research again, setting off on Krikkitone's recommended tech path:

ALC22_160AD_02.jpg


A few turns later I changed civics, switching into Slavery again to whip a few things to completion. I love the Spiritual trait, have I said that before?

ALC22_160AD_03.jpg


Someone else built the Apostolic Palace:

ALC22_160AD_04.jpg


As you'll see, my religious options in this game are starting to get limited. Ironically, unlike the previous attempt at a Saladin game, it would have been an extremely good idea to have founded a religion this time around!

That American city to the north of Mecca flipped.

ALC22_160AD_05.jpg


I disbanded it. it didn't have much going for it, and I was going to expand into more worthwhile sites to the south this round. I got a free Archer, though, who I sent down to Najran to see if he can help prevent cultural rebellions there.

Zara kept offering to trade me Maths for HBR, but I kept turning him down. I'm having to duplicate research the AI has already done a lot in this game, something I'm normally loathe to do, but I don't really have much choice at the moment.

ALC22_160AD_06.jpg


Zara is still wonder-happy, and he built a wonder that will probably give me a lot of trouble later on:

ALC22_160AD_07.jpg


I hate it when someone next door to me builds that stupid thing. I may have to build an amphibious assault force to capture Zara's capital ASAP if and when we do go to war.

Also in this round, wonder-wise, Suryavarman built the Hanging Gardens, and Roosevelt built the Mausoleum of Maussollos. All the more reason to conquer the continent, don't you think?

I founded the fish/iron city:

ALC22_160AD_08.jpg


That seemed like the best spot. 1 SW of there would have given me more tundra and ocean tiles rather than the additional usable land tiles this location gives me.

Sure enough, Najran experienced its first cultural revolt:

ALC22_160AD_09.jpg


I hate being next door to a Creative civ. I prefer to axe-rush the buggers, frankly. They're annoying, kind of like cockroaches, and you need to treat them the same way: smoosh 'em into oblivion.

I had whipped some Horse Archers to completion, and was ready to assault the barb cities. Since many of you like to see the blow-by-blow accounts of some of these battles, I included this one. The barb city was not heavily defended, as you can see.

ALC22_160AD_01.jpg


Apparently some previous assaults by Sury had probably killed one Archer (3 Archers is pretty much standard issue for any barb city) and one of them had survived a couple of fights and earned the CG promotion you see above.
I gave my HA both flanking promotions and checked the odds.

ALC22_160AD_10.jpg


I've noticed, since I started using the flanking promotions more often, that the combat and retreat odds have something of an inverse relationship, the latter decreasing as the former increases and vice-versa. Does anyone know if that's valid?

In any case, I figured I had enough units there to polish off 2 Archers even if the first attackers didn't survive. But as luck would have it, they did survive, and won both fights:

ALC22_160AD_11.jpg


ALC22_160AD_12.jpg


ALC22_160AD_13.jpg


So the first barb city was mine, and I got a hefty amount of gold for it to boot. On to the next one!

Once again, I benefited from other civ's failed attempts to assault the barb city. Etruscan had only one defender left, and a badly damaged one at that. Lest Sury's Chariot get lucky on the next turn, I attacked with the units I had closest to the city, which was Chariots.

ALC22_160AD_16.jpg


I gave this one the Medic I promotion as well; with 6 XPs, an attached Great General can make it my MASH and West Point-enabling unit later on.

And yes, I captured yet another barb Worker, bringing my total to 5 thus far. Thanks, barbs!

ALC22_160AD_17.jpg


This is why I never turn barbarians off. I see some players on the boards complaining about them, and yes, they are tiresome, kind of like the mosquitoes I grew up with on the prairies (Vancouver doesn't have any of the blood-sucking little buggers, praise the lord). However, barbarians give you a chance to have your units earn valuable XPs, they sometimes build cities for you, and you can capture Workers from them (I think I set a record for myself on that account in this game). You just have to make acquiring a strategic resource or two a high priority very early on, and build a few units to deal with them.

I decided to use all the gold I'd obtained from capturing barb cities to upgrade my Woodsman III Warrior to an Axeman.

ALC22_160AD_18.jpg


In the early game, a Woodsman III Axe is a great stack protector and can be an unholy terror to the AI, zipping through jungle and forest to capture Workers and so on. I always try to get at least one early exploring Warrior up to WIII exactly for this reason.

I finished researching the next tech on Krikkitone's list:

ALC22_160AD_19.jpg


Next up is Code of Laws.

Meanwhile, Roosevelt appears to be slowly but surely warming up to me:

ALC22_160AD_20.jpg


And here endeth the round. Another short one, I know, but I think I'm feeling very cautious after the previous attempt at a Saladin game. To be honest, I've never had a good game as Saladin, neither in his vanilla nor his Warlords incarnations, not that I've used him often. Hence the tentative nature of my play in this ALC.

The game post is below; a state-of-the-world post will follow.
 

Attachments

The State of the World, 160 AD

First off, here's a look at the map:

ALC22_160AD_21.jpg


I think there's room for at least one more city to the southwest by the coastal cows--not much of a city, but still. Then again, there's also room for a city between Etruscan, Gaul, and Kufah that would claim the remaining floodplains down there. I think that's a higher priority. Let Sury build a marginal city on the west coast to get the cows.

Current city builds:

ALC22_160AD_22.jpg


So I'm finally working on getting the Madrassas and the SE up and running. In spite of that, I seem to be doing okay in terms of economy and research; I expected everything to crash after founding 2 more cities and capturing another two, but I`m hanging in there at 40% on the slider.

Civics:

ALC22_160AD_23.jpg


Yes, I remembered to switch out of Slavery once I was done whipping for a while.

Foreign advisor, relations and glance:

ALC22_160AD_24.jpg


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The good news is my rating with Suryavarman appears to be slowly rising. A good thing, too, because I`d like to keep him off my back for awhile.

Trade deals:

ALC22_160AD_26.jpg


Resources:

ALC22_160AD_27.jpg


So I`m wondering if I should stop trading stone to Sury and trade gold to him instead. I`d rather not give him any happiness advantages if I can avoid it, and I`m not really using the stone at the moment.

Techs:

ALC22_160AD_28.jpg


So as before, there isn`t much on offer here. Meditation and Sailing won`t really do me a lot of good at the moment. Perhaps I would have been better off using the GSpy for infiltration to steal the worthwhile techs from Zara, but as I said, I wanted to try something different this time.

Religions:

ALC22_160AD_29.jpg


So nearly all of the religions have been founded, and all on the other continent(s). The sole exception is Confucianism, which means no one has gotten to Divine Right just yet. I don`t know if it`s worth making a bee-line to that dead-end, mostly-useless tech, frankly. There may not be any religions on my continent until Astronomy.

The good news, I suppose, is that the other continent(s) should be a seething maelstrom of religious conflict rather than a happy hippie love-fest. The bad news is that when religions do spread to my continent, it`s very likely that everyone will end up with a different faith--then, watch out.

Espionage:

ALC22_160AD_30.jpg


So I now have just enough EPs to send Zara`s cities into revolt. I can also steal some of his cheaper technologies. So perhaps I should start building spies to do that.

Anyway, that`s the way things stand... let me know what you think! (Like I have to ask...) ;)
 
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