ALC Game #24: Hammurabi/Babylon

[r_rolo1]

To pigswill

Spoiler :

IMHO Sis is not ready to war now. But a dozen ( or two .... this is epic ) turns of buildup will surely put him in good shape ( especially if he uses the fortified GS for a well timed GA ).

Now the quibbles:
- 9 net in Babylon? With a UU that gives health still unbuilt ? Even if his is a sabotage effect, the gardens should had been (re)built a long time ago

- I think you are overlooking culture near Kufah. As it looks that sal decided to withdraw his war plans for now, you need to go to take war to him This would be far easier if you had kept that tile near Kufah in your hands

Well, besides that and one or other city making a 23 turn cannon , this looks good. IMHO you should get a good buildup ( even 5 turns of drafting will give you 15 rifles ) and teach Sal that Carpe diem is not only for the Death Poet Society

 

[Tyrant Roger]

Speed is key. Attack Sally soon. the best route may well be the Golden Age, Nationalism, Vassalage, draft rifles, whip cannon, repeat. When ready attack, don't wait for his SOD.

 

[pigswill]

Thanks r rolo1 .

Maybe launch golden age with 100% cash, you don´t really need milsci or miltrad immediately. Declare. Wait for Sal´s stack of cuirassiers (SOC) then upgrade to rifles, strafe SOC with cannon (9 or 10 is plenty) and finish off with rifles then start invasion.
If you´re going to draft then adopt theocracy with nationalism for five or six rounds, revert back before the end of golden age.

 

[kazapp]

Excellent post Dan.

Insight and analysis into the AI's decision is the major area left mostly untouched by this otherwise very worthy forum.

I am convinced I would become a much stronger player if I learnt the underlying reasons for its behavior, thus being able to "play" my opponents.

Strange really how little research there is into this subject (considering the near absence of posts like Dan's)...?

As a first area of research, let's choose "how can I make the AI attack or not attack me?" and "how do I know if the AI will and won't attack me?"

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, the AI war decision is a really complex mess and I bet most of the ppl that messed with it gave it up before of a full understanding of the mechanics . Add to that the dificulty of making a article.....

Not that it is not needed .....

 

[DMOC]

I have also noticed that some AI's decide they want to prepare for war and then suddenly stop years later. It really causes some unnecessary panic.

 

[Artichoker]

Thanks r rolo1 .

Maybe launch golden age with 100% cash, you don´t really need milsci or miltrad immediately. Declare. Wait for Sal´s stack of cuirassiers (SOC) then upgrade to rifles, strafe SOC with cannon (9 or 10 is plenty) and finish off with rifles then start invasion.
If you´re going to draft then adopt theocracy with nationalism for five or six rounds, revert back before the end of golden age.

This is the solution we've been looking for. Saving the 1st golden age for this critical time was a wise move...and the timing coincides with new available civics (Representation and Mercantilism) that can be added to the mix.

The global religious situation makes a permanent switch to Theocracy unfavorable, and combining Nationhood with Free Religion results in sub-par drafted units (and mediocre non-drafted units).

Having Organized is the crucial trait that makes permanent use of Vassalage desirable (in combination with Free Religion), but a temporary switch into Nationhood, aided by a golden age, results in the best of both worlds.

 

[Validator]

There's a problem with switching to Representation. Pacal is only at Friendly because of +6 "wise civics" from running HR. A switch to Rep. will drop him from a net of +13 to +7 and down to Pleased. And since his WFYABTA limit is 5 he'll almost certainly join the rest in refusing to trade. That will only leave Hannibal, the runaway tech leader, as a tech trading partner. Are the few extra s from specialists really worth it?


In looking at the save I noticed that Mehmed has declared war on Darius (followed by his dutiful vassal Pacal). Is that something that can be exploited? Maybe a phony war with Darius to get some MMS points with Mehmed and Pacal? OTOH Mehmed is Saladin's worst enemy, so there's a possibility he'll get involved in the war on Darius' side.


It's 1310 AD. Isn't it about time to start thinking about what victory to go for? Regardless of what you choose I think you would have been better off saving the GE for Mining Inc. An extra 12+ base s in each city would be more of an aid in winning than a few turns of free research.

 

[Cofuffle]

I believe I now have the perfect comparison between these threads and madscientists.. of which I enjoy each writeup equally.. each author having his own 'flavour'

see what I mean below..





Sisiutils ALC challenge

Spoiler :

With this accomplished, Saladin promptly marshaled his forces, mustered his army, girded his loins... and did absolutely nothing. Not just a little bit of nothing, but the type of pointed, deliberate, and focused inaction of which legends are not made. The ground did not shake beneath the pounding hooves of his war horses, no great dust cloud arose to mark their fearsome passing, and the peasantry did not cower in their hovels in abject fear of the mighty army's wrath. The countryside was not ravaged, virgins not deflowered, the wail of widowed wives and bereft mothers did not fill the air. Yes, it appears that Saladin saw that his moment had arrived, so he ferociously seized it by the throat, then apparently let it go with a muttered apology and, I'm guessing, some sort of parting gift.

vs

MadScientists RPC's

Spoiler :

Oh greta Orane Sury, your geneosity will not be forgotten.

 

[Joshua368]

Now that's not fair. But the new RPC did have some classic lines, still in his unique style.

Spoiler :

OK where were we.. Ah, the war.

We did real good, killing a Khmerian archer that strayed into our lands. Killed him dead! Our horse archer outflanked him, encircled the last Khmerians, overran them, and smote thier ashes into the ground!! Twas glorious!!!!! So glorious a great general arose from teh ranks.

 

[CivCorpse]

I am still pissed @ saladin for not DOW 2 turns before Sis had cannons.

 

[kazapp]

Okay, so all of you appeasers, you explain how we're going to win this game without Sal's lands!

 

[Gooblah]

I'm definitely missing something here.

Why not DECLARE WAR on Saladin? If he has concentrated his largest stack in that city, then Cannons+CR Melee and Muskets will do the trick, no? Wipe out his power rating while building up more "advanced" units and you're all set...

 

[Matthew5117]

I'm definitely missing something here.

Why not DECLARE WAR on Saladin? If he has concentrated his largest stack in that city, then Cannons+CR Melee and Muskets will do the trick, no? Wipe out his power rating while building up more "advanced" units and you're all set...

I think the problem is that when you declare war, other civilizations get negative diplomatic points with you. When someone else declares war on you, you don't get those negative diplomatic points.

 

[LiberiGlacialis]

That depends, of course, on how friendly they are with Sal. Annoyed and lower (with him, not you) don't get the diplo hit tacked on, and may even decide to help you out (provided they don't hate you as well!).

 

[Matthew5117]

That depends, of course, on how friendly they are with Sal. Annoyed and lower (with him, not you) don't get the diplo hit tacked on, and may even decide to help you out (provided they don't hate you as well!).

Yep, forgot to add that too.

 

[PaulusIII]

That depends, of course, on how friendly they are with Sal. Cautious and lower (with him, not you) don't get the diplo hit tacked on, and may even decide to help you out (provided they don't hate you as well!).

I'm pretty sure you do not get a diplo hit with civs at Cautious either.

As for dowing Sal, he will be alone. You'll take a diplo hit with Ragnar, Justinian and Hannibal but they won't help him out. Justinian and Hannibal never declare at pleased, and Ragnar cannot be bribed if he is pleased with you - I doubt he's going to declare on you with a load of techs behind. Mehmed, Pacal and Darius have enough on their hands, but even if they did not they would not help him.

He's alone. Kill him.

 

[Rubbaduck]

He's alone. Kill him.

Epic, worthy of your avatar.

Anyways, get Sal one way or the other. No need to tick him off by making arrogant demands, declaration isn't gonna get you to furious with him for the rest of the game.
Besides, you can just mash up that stack of offensive-untis-that-don't-get-defensive-bonuses in Kufah and march onwards smiling happily, showing him a fine example on how to do something instead of doing nothing.

 

[LiberiGlacialis]

I knew Annoyed, I didn't know it was Cautious. Thanks. Must remember that for my own games....

 

[pigswill]

Having actually looked at Sis´latest screenshot of Kufah I note that not only is it right on the border but it has 0% defence so cannon go straight to collateral rather than knocking down defences.
So I change camp to attack Kufah asap (within five turns max) and wipe out Sal´s SOC the same turn as declaring war. This will seriously dent his power rating making it harder for Sal to drag in allies against Sis.
Still go for golden age, nat/theo drafting, 100% cash to upgrade to rifles.