ALC Game #3: China/Qin

[Gnarfflinger]

First off:

Nares: Cultural would be a nice plan A because of the Industrious trait. Even when I do go for a cultural win, I still research Bronze working first because you need axemen to retaliate against an early war. Further, if you get beaten to early wonders, the Axemen can help you expand when you are ready (can afford the increased upkeep cost).

My main reason for calling for the early settling of a city is that the sooner you settle, the sooner you get Pottery, and the sooner you build your cottages. The sooner you get your economy rolling, the sooner you can advance your win conditions, regardless of what you end up going for. Tech advantages translate to better weapons, earlier cultural wonders or a head start on that space race...

 

[Sisiutil]

Round 2: to 3000 BC

First off, no, Nares, Spearmen don't get a bonus versus melee; they only get a 100% bonus versus mounted units, so against CKNs, they remain squishy indeed.

But don't feel down, I took your suggested site for Beijing:

Hmm, not much for a Worker to do at first. Better research some techs to keep him busy. I started off with that old standby, Bronze Working; I figured if I'm going after a Machinery slingshot, I better get started down that tech path. Plus I like knowing where the copper is before I start planning city sites.

Meanwhile, my first Warrior went off in a wide circle, first to the north, then veering west, then southwest. I wanted to reveal terrain for potential cities and see if I can find goody huts. I did both. The first one popped for gold, and on that turn I got news about an early religion being founded:

I suppose I could go after Hinduism...but then what is my first worker going to do? I decided to research the Wheel after BW was done. If a worker is idle, he can always build a road.

Right about this time the neighbours started popping by to say hello:

Caesar and Huayna. Hmmm, interesting. Caesar in the hands of the AI is usually a mid-level Civ. The AI just doesn't know how to use Praets effectively. He's still dangerous though, so I'll have to watch myself. But I usually find, with a little diplomatic finess, that I can get along with Caesar. He's very opportunistic, however, so I'll have to make sure my power rating doesn't drop below his significantly.

As for Huayna...can I just say that I LOVE finding myself next to this guy early in the game? More than I hate finding him comfortably ensconced on a distant continent later in the game, that's for sure. Look, he's the one who founded Buddhism. I'll bet you he'll build its shrine. All in time for me to take it from him. (Insert malevolent laughter here.) He's definitely a primo target for either an Axe or CKN rush. Probably Axes. Save the CKNs for Caesar.

Based on where their units first appeared, I'd say they're both to the south of me. There's probably another civ to the north I haven't met yet because I haven't explored up there very far.

I would not be surprised if both Caesar and I wind up becoming Buddhists at first. If I found a religion, I will probably hold off on converting to it until I can spread it to Caesar and convert him. Or I'll just take over Huayna's cities and stay Buddhist.

My first Warrior, now moving south down the west coast of the continent, fought off a couple of jaguar attacks (of the barbarian variety--no sign of Monty), and popped a hut for experience. So he's now Woodsman II--the irony being that as he continued south, there are hardly any woods in sight! He's holed up with a Quecha in one of the few treed tiles, recovering after a lion attack.

Meanwhile, my second Warrior was completed and started exploring to the east, accompanied by another of Huayna's Quechas. He popped a map from one hut, revealing tiles to the south, then started swinging through the area east of the capital. Check out my luck here:

I LOVE IT!! Not only do I beat an AI civ to a goody hut--something I almost never manage to do--I pop it for a tech I'm gonna need real soon! Let's hope my luck holds through the rest of the game, shall we?

As for other techs, I'm researching Pottery--may as well get started on the cottages early. Besides, it's a pre-req for Metal Casting, IIRC. After that, I think I'll go after Mysticism, Polytheism (who knows, I may snag Hinduism, but I doubt it) and Priesthood, then Metal Casting while I build the Oracle. The Machinery slingshot seems very similar to the CoL slingshot, except for researching MC instead of Writing. I'll then go back to get Iron Working and presto! Cho-Ko-Nus!

Oh. Guess I need hunting and archery too. Well, hopefully they'll be cheaper by then...

I also finished building my worker, and he is now chopping my first settler. Speaking of settling, Here's a look at that potential city spot to my north that I was wondering about:

COPPER!! I think city #2 has to go up there. I feel good about moving the capital south so this city can have the cow--looks like it's going to need it. Almost all plains and a couple of deserts, even if one of them has copper. And I can either have the wheat or the clam, but not both.

The most tempting spot is the plains hill (and its extra hammer), but then I only have one grassland tile (the wooded one next to the cow). At least there's a source of fresh water for it. It'll be a pretty good production city eventually, but it means I'll have to prioritize Civil Service so I can farm all those plains. Still, once improved and a lighthouse is in place, the cows will provide 3 food and the clams, 5; the wheat would, by contrast, provide 4 food with a farm, five when irrigated thanks to a CS chain of plains farms, and six with Biology (correct me if I'm wrong). Plus a mine on the grassland hill will provide one food to offset the cost of working it.

The other possiblity is the wooded plains tile on the coast, 1 SW of the clams. That would give up the empty desert tile and gain me two grasslands. It would have two tiles overlapping the capital's fat cross (the lake and the wooded grassland hill). It would have 6 coastal and one ocean tile instead of 5 coastal. The one nice thing about water tiles is that you don't have to busy your workers on them, you just have to build a lighthouse. But they produce no hammers, unfortunately. Still, I lose one plains hill and gain a grassland hill, trading a hammer for one food. Hmmm, decisions, decisions...

But hey--copper! And the coast! I'm Financial and Industrious and I'm going after metal casting and forges early...can you say "Colossus", kids? Great Merchant GP points too... $$$$$$!!!

Regardless, I'd really appreciate everyone's input on this one. As with the capital, this city location seems a bit of a toss-up to me. As it's an early city, I'm leaning towards the wooded grassland tile; if it was later in the game, I'd find the plains hill more favourable.

As for other potential city sites, let's do a sweep of the south, west to east:

And here's the big picture:

So there are two sources of horses nearby as well, and, look at that, stone to the south of me. What is it with me and stone in these games? I wasn't going to take a run at the Pyramids again, but I just might. Even if I miss out, the stockpile of gold is always useful.

I'd like to move down to these locations quickly as well. Remember that rule of thumb, expand towards your neighbours. A city near the stone would be #3, and I'm thinking of putting city #4 near the horses to my east--either on the grassland tile 1W of the horses, or on the grassland hill 1 NW of that. My Warrior will expose that area to see if there's another seafood resource, then he's heading northwest to become city #2's first protector.

Too bad about all those sucky mountain tiles, especially around the horse, pig, and bananas to the southwest. There are floodplains down there, but I'll bet either Caesar or Huayna will beat me to them. I think a better spot for city #5 would be over by the ivory and bananas to the west. My borders would then seal off the continent into northern and southern portions. With a city at each point on the compass, I'd have the spoke-and-hub pattern of early cities around the capital that everyone recommends but rarely achieves.

I haven't done a dotmap yet, but I will in my next post.

Here's the saved game:

 

[Nares]

First off, no, Nares, Spearmen don't get a bonus versus melee; they only get a 100% bonus versus mounted units, so against CKNs, they remain squishy indeed.

That's what I meant. The CKNs get the +50% bonus, making the Spearmen "squishy meleers."

Glad to see there's Copper nearby. Now find that Iron.

1W or 1SW of the Clams is good. You want that Plains Hill to be worked with all that excess food you'll get from the Clams (only one extra food from a Pasteurized Plains Cow, IIRC, though three hammers as well).

Hopefully I can stay sane enough while ghosting this.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

Ultimately, The Bronze will be imperative. If Huyana decides not to play nice, you will need Axes to put the brakes on such aggression.

Once you have Bronze and the wheel, then Pottery would be my call. Basically pursue your long range goals while being able to kick someone's teeth in when you need to...

 

[Sisiutil]

...pursue your long range goals while being able to kick someone's teeth in when you need to...

This should be every Civ player's motto...

1W of the clams, eh, Nares? I'll have to think about that.

Actually, we can all think about it. Here are three dotmaps for this city site to mull over:

Whaddya think? Which one is best?

The first two have the benefit of not waiting for borders to expand before the copper is available, and I don't have to rush my worker up there to chop that forest so it doesn't go to waste. And no overlap with the capital. Hmmmm...

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

I think I like the middle one the least. The downside is obvious. You're gaining 2 ocean tiles and losing 2 hills (plus trading some plains for coast). I don't see any benefits.

Between the other two, I think it's less obvious, but I prefer the first. Its benefits are no ocean, one additional hill (used for the city center), and no overlap. In echange for that, you give up one square to desert and you have fewer grasslands. Consider the unusable desert tile to be equivalent to one tile of overlap, and the overlap in your 3rd option effectively only costs your city one tile. It's not an easy choice.

The additional grasslands don't seem like a great benefit to this particular city. This city is a production city, so grasslands only get you food (that is, you aren't particularly looking for tiles that you can cottage). This city already has a huge amount of food. By my count it's +1 from the cows, +3 from the clams, +2 from the city center, and +1 from a farm on the irrigatable grassland for a total of +7.

Eventually you need 14 to cover the deficits on the plains, hills, and desert, but even +7 is enough to work both hills and the copper in the desert and still have a surplus of 2 food at population 6. If you work the coast, you can grow as large as 10 population (but with no additional production beyond population 6) before you go below +2 food. So as long as you can get Civil Service before you grow past 6 to 10 population, those grasslands won't get you much.

How soon will your settler be ready? If you have time to explore a little more around that wheat, it might help make some decisions. In other words, will moving this city southeast by one tile give you a better spot for another city later (much like the way moving Beijing south freed up the cows for this new city)? Lets find out.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yeah, I'd go for the first one.... and as for one of the other cities... an Elephant town seems Very nice

So i'd say
Copper City
Stone City ... a Lousy spot, but it does have a Cow (a decent city at low population... maybe a good Heroic Epic City)

Other towns->TriElephant+horsefruit City (SW)..put exactly 2 N of the Horse to get both... this way the nex city can be
Gold Pig Port City (farther SW)..1 W of the Coastal Gold

As for cities to the East... they don't get you many resources, and your Capital and Elephant City should block off the North of the Continent. (once you get Stonehenge in the Capital (I'd get cheap Mysticism for that before IW/Metal Casting.. which are expensive)

The cities in the East are nice as long term Cottage Spammers... but I'd expand South before going East (the gold is good with the Forges and combined with Flood cottages is a much quicker boost to your economy than Jungle cottages)

So basicaly I'd go Copper, Stone, Elephant, Gold... Then go East (probably make sure you have at least that # cities before starting the Pyramids... because Industrious with Stone should finish it well enough)

If you want to go Cultural, building the Parthenon would be good... otherwise, not quite sure if its worth it except as an 'extra'... If it goes in the Capital, then the Capital could make a good GP farm (extra food with those Sugar plantations should support the necessary Artists, even with some 'Other Wonders' and some Cottaged area. (plus it'll have the Hills necessary to build stuff.)

 

[Sisiutil]

So based on our combined thoughts, this is what my first dotmap looks like:

Of course, as in any game, a lot of this depends upon the other AIs cooperating.

But even if Huayna or Caesar beat me to some of these spots, I find a far-reaching dotmap like this is helpful. It helps me decide if a small, early city I'm capturing is in a good location and worth keeping, or is not and gets razed.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Hah! whoever called for settling Beijing two tiles further east (on top of the sugar) deserves a prize.

From the department of yuck: in viewing the save, that hidden tile near city #3 has to be another mountain. If you are going to make a desperate push for Stonehenge, that's the right place; but if you aren't, it might make sense to hold off on that city. (This also depends on how far away Iron Working is; do you really intend to delay IW to research Rockstacking?).

Location #4 has the potential to be a production giant (base:58), but until State Property kicks in it figures to be something of a hybrid, as Financial turns to elephants into magical 2F/2P/3C tiles.

Location #5... I'd be tempted to move that one to the desert hill NE of the gold. Put all the food bonuses in a single city to use as the GP farm. However, I see what may be a good Ironworks candidate down there, and your current location fits better with that then the hill does.

Location #6, I'd be looking to put that one on the hill to the north west, because again you've got another production powerhouse hiding in the jungle, and moving 6 further north would reduce the overlap. To be honest, though, I'm not sure you have enough information about the east to call those locations properly yet.

 

[Tunder]

I would be tempted to build on city #2 on top of the hill and try to make it into an early production city. If you could build the Parthenon there and then the Colossus with MW, then you could start kicking out some Great Merchants there. If you just added them as specialists, then the extra food would allow you to place cottages on all of the plains squares with out having to wait for CS and irrigating them. You would still have enough production going forward to be able to quickly build your market, grocer, etc. It just seems like you could make that city into a pretty strong gold generator.

 

[Sisiutil]

Good calls, VoU. I am going to give Stonehenge a try, but in the last two games, I completed it before the stone was hooked up. That's a pretty common occurrence for me. As the earliest available wonder, you can't wait for Masonry, your 2nd or 3rd city, your road network, and a quarry to be built before getting SH started and even done. Besides, it's relatively cheap; stone is imperative for the much more expensive Pyramids.

Nevertheless, I think city 3 makes sense because (a) it snags the stone which is useful for several other wonders later in the game and (b) it follows that rule of thumb, "expand towards your rivals".

But you're correct, since I'm trying for early-as-possible access to the UU, Masonry is a low priority. It's a bit of a dead-end tech, too, isn't it? I think it will make more sense in this game to give the Pyramids a pass and trade or extort for Masonry later on, or research it when it's relatively cheap.

As for city 5, I'm inclined to make it coastal, especially if I build the Colossus. That's the same reason city 6 beckons; I'm sending my warrior north of the hill you've suggested for its site to see if there's a seafood resource off that coast.

Keep the suggestions coming...I'm playing and posting the next round tonight!

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Nevertheless, I think city 3 makes sense because (a) it snags the stone which is useful for several other wonders later in the game and (b) it follows that rule of thumb, "expand towards your rivals".

But you're correct, since I'm trying for early-as-possible access to the UU, Masonry is a low priority. It's a bit of a dead-end tech, too, isn't it?

If you are trying for the stone to get later wonders, you may not need to make this city #3.

With regard to Stonehenge, I'm thinking of the Monty game, where building the 'henge at Teotihuacan (what did you rename it in your version? Taco Bell or something?), using an immediate stone quarry and a road to hook it up made sense (in other words, getting the stone improved and connected before worrying about the cows, and making the Henge your first build). You can't start the quarry before the city is founded, but you can connect it by prebuilding the road). In truth, I think you have more important things for that worker to be doing.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

I like the first site. It gives you immediate access to the Copper. You need to get on Huyana fast. If he gets his economy rolling, he may out tech you. Better to have the axes ready to cut his infrastructure.

 

[Nares]

I finally got my hands on another copy of the game today, and tried running through the Machinery slingshot a few times.

I'm inclined to think that it's very dependent on the AI not attempting to screw you over. It would take far too specific a tech order to accomplish (there's adequate time for building The Oracle, just not enough to research Metal Casting), so I think you'll need to readdress your approach.

Sorry if I caused you early game woes by suggesting/supporting it.

I was hoping there would be a non-CoL/CS slingshot, but it seems there's not. That's the only worthwhile early game path besides early warmongering, but early warmongering is pretty dependent on map size and game speed, and to a lesser extent traits/UUs. Pretty much what I've seen being done at the highest difficulty levels. Not to say Machinery slingshot is impossible, but it's extremely dependent on various factors (mostly factors outside of your control, though if you beeline specifically for Metal Casting and The Oracle, you might be able to pull it off with a reasonable chance of success).

EDIT: I'm rather surprised no one pointed this out earlier (regarding Machinery and The Oracle, specifically).

 

[Mutineer]

There is Machinery slingshot.

Variations:
1)
Use Oracle for COL.
Revolt for Castle system,
Hire merchants.
Research naturally mathematic-Currency

Assuming you allredy know bronse working Merchant will research Mettalocasting.
Next merchant offer +1000 to Civil service.
Next merchant offer + 1000 to machinery.

It is probably fastest way to get to Maceman/Crossbowman then anythign else and in difference with Prophet shot it does not depends on you know Masonry.
If you do not know masonry this will let you use propet for civil service and merchants for metallocasting/machinery.

 

[Mutineer]

Second variation.
Use Oracle for Mettalocasting (need to know bronse working/pottery)
Whipe Forge in other city (If you industrial forget are cheap) and hire Engeneer. If you are fast this G Engeneer will be ahead of GP from Oracle.
Use GE for 1000+ to Machinery.

This is fastest shot to Machinery, but does not do mach for your economy.

 

[Nares]

The first slingshot doesn't seem as applicable to this situation. The focus is on the CKN, which are not dependent on CS. Certainly for a Samurai rush it would be better, though it appears to be rather GP dependent.

I was thinking, however, that the CKNs could be brought out early enough to avoid Longbows w/ higher cultural defense (avoiding the necessity of Catapaults, Macemen and Pikemen). With Financial Cottage spam, I don't think your economy will be severly impacted by bypassing other techs. Certainly not as it would have been with a Machinery slingshot using Mao.

The second slingshot is certainly a workable option in this situation given my intentions for CKN. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

I'm wondering if the whip is necessary, as the +3 GEP will outpace the +2 GPP with at least 15 turns to spare (or, in other words, you can apply the specialist a solid 15 turns after completing The Oracle and still beat the Great Prophet with a Great Engineer). It would also mean skipping Stonehenge and its inherent GPP.

I had neglected Great People thus far, not being Philosophical and all, and entirely overlooked forcing a GE out before the GP.

 

[vampy420]

In regards to Stonehenge .. I rarely ever try for it and only do so if I by some stroke of luck I have stone in my first fat cross .. I'd much rather pick up Oracle and Hanging Gardens myself.

 

[Mutineer]

The second slingshot is certainly a workable option in this situation given my intentions for CKN. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

I'm wondering if the whip is necessary, as the +3 GEP will outpace the +2 GPP with at least 15 turns to spare (or, in other words, you can apply the specialist a solid 15 turns after completing The Oracle and still beat the Great Prophet with a Great Engineer). It would also mean skipping Stonehenge and its inherent GPP.

Whipe or not whipe depends.
You need to get setler out and some defence out befor Oracle (Doable).
You need to grow this city to support Engeneer specialists and build forge somehow.

Useally easiers and fastest way to achieve that is to work special resources and that need minimum worker actions. = food special resources.
Generally that mean that you city most likly does not make mach shield, but has exces of food. Whiping in this case tend to be fastest and easiest solution.

 

[Sisiutil]

Round 3: to 325 BC

Oh you boys. Such a bunch of worry-warts.

You're lucky I'm posting--things went so well it took every ounce of will-power I had to tear myself away from the game.

First things first.

I founded the second city, Shanghai, on the plains hill.

My first build was a Worker, though my initial Worker from Beijing was the one who wound up working that copper tile. This was after he'd built a couple of cottages and a grassland hill mine near the capital while waiting for the Settler to get built.

That Settler build, by the way, took a little longer than it first appeared. I had to insert a Warrior into Beijing's build queue, you see. I'd forgotten to leave a defender in Beijing! Since Barb Warriors were starting to appear, that was not good. I often make that mistake: I build a Warrior right off, then forget he's not supposed to explore forever, but return after a brief bit of fog-busting to defend the capital. That slip-up would get me creamed on multi-player, wouldn't it?

Once I finished researching Pottery, I jumped over to the Religious tech paths starting with Mysticism. The copper came on-line and I cooked up a few Axemen. Good thing, too, as a barb city suddenly appeared due west of Shanghai!

Meanwhile, Beijing was busy. Good thing I built those mines:

I know there'll be a game where some AI civ beats me to Stonehenge, but I'll rue that day when it arrives (unless I'm a Creative civ). This is just such a handy wonder to have! I tried purposely avoiding it in another recent game and had to either divert my early city builds with Obelisks or put cities in less-than-ideal locations just to ensure a critical resource was in its first ring. Not easy.

I had researched Priesthood a few turns before, but avoiding starting on the Oracle at first. Both Shanghai and Beijing have pretty good production, so the Oracle would have been built far too early. I started researching Metal Casting. Check the top of the screenshot above and you'll understand why Nares was justifiably nervous. So was I. This was a big gamble, maybe even bigger than a CS Slingshot!

Oh well, I thought, no guts, no glory.

The research time gave Beijing cycles to build another Warrior (this was just before the copper got hooked up), since my Woodsman II veteran finally met his maker--well, a Barb Warrior at any rate. Not enough woods and jungle tiles south of me, it turns out; I should have gone for simple Combat promotions. Live and learn.

After the Warrior appeared, I started on the Oracle, carefully choosing tile assignments in the capital to time everything perfectly:

Yeah, I know...25 turns to build the Oracle? Not a chance. I went for it anyway. Semi-free gold if I fail.

Two turns after that, Beijing grew to pop 3. I built another cottage north of the first one, then built another mine south of it. I swapped the third citizen's tile assignments; on the mine, the Oracle still got built too fast, so he wound up working the cottage to speed research.

Shanghai was no help in that regard. No commerce tiles in its fat cross, since I didn't have fishing! Aaarrgh!!

I swear I went into Beijing's city screen on every single turn to swap around tile assignments and see how it affected research times and the Oracle build. Finally, in exactly 1000 BC, everything lined up just right:

STILL nine turns to go, though! I was getting too close now to be able to shrug off losing out. My fingers hovered hesitantly over ENTER at the end of every turn, fully expecting their seemingly-innocuous tap of a key to bring the announcement that "The Oracle has been built in a faraway land!" and the massive disappointment that would accompany it.

Time passed. I tried to distract myself by sending a City Raider I Axe over to that Barb city. If it was pop 2 and I captured it, that would be some consolation for wasting turns hopelessly pursuing a Wonder when I should have been building Settlers.

Then, in 775 BC...

OHYESOHYESOHYESOHYESOHYESOHYESOHYESOHYESOHYESOHYESYES YES YES YESSSS!!!

(I was gonna insert a bunch of celebratory smilies here, but it seems twelve images is the limit. Perhaps it's just as well.)

So I took a deep breath, curbed my enthusiasm, and VERY CAREFULLY moved the mouse to make sure I got Machinery and not Fishing. That would have been a little anti-climactic, methinks.

I got all excited again, though, rushed to Shanghai to change the build order to Cho-Ko-Nus...and realized I needed Hunting, Archery, Iron Working, AND a source of iron. It seems the tension wasn't over.

Oh well, Axes are good too. Very good, in fact:

I know a lot of people hate the barbs, but when I gain an early city like this for the price of an Axeman (who gains XPs and will continue to serve my growing empire), I just love those little black-flagged dudes. I mean, look at that--a free Worker, ivory, pigs, and ANOTHER source of copper. The only down side is that awkwardly-situated wheat tile, which I can't access without razing the city, building another Settler, and either giving up one of the other resources or building like the AI, one tile in from the coast. Feh, Shanghai's third border expansion will claim it for the entire civ.

I sent my next Settler southwest. As I anticipated, Caesar was already encroaching on that area, and claimed the horse tile on a subsequent border expansion:

I have an Open Borders agreement with Caesar to keep relations cordial (his idea, he has Writing, I don't). Turns out there isn't, after all, much land to the north to seal off from my two neighbours. That's okay, it just makes the direction in which I need to go that much more obvious.

Speaking of diplomacy and such, another event I had predicted occurred:

I converted right away. It would temporarily enhance relations with Huayna, and a State Religion will help if I can pop Theology. There's a good chance of that; I have my first Great Prophet asleep in Beijing. I'm going to have to go back to the religious research path. Right now he'd pop for Meditation. I need to research that and Monotheism, then I can use him for Theology.

Meanwhile, my incredible luck is continuing to hold. I researched Fishing (only three turns, and Shanghai is gonna need that food source soon), then Hunting and Archery, then IW. Once the Iron Working research completed, a source of iron appeared. Check out where:

Okay, gang, I SWEAR I have not gone into World Builder at all, but you can be forgiven for thinking I had. I mean, look at that--Iron one tile from the capital, and on a tile where I had already build a mine and a road!!!! It's going to help tremendously with Beijing's production...not to mention the UU. Which I've started producing en masse.

Caesar and Huayna won't know what the heck hit them. I have access to Cho-Ko-Nus before the clock has rolled over from BC to AD! This is just gonna rock.

Victory condition? I'm starting to think domination or even conquest, kids.

Here's a look at the map:

Yes, another Barb city appeared south of the first one! My CRII Axeman is about to raze it on the next turn. Unlike the previous one, it's not worth keeping, and I'm about to go off conquering a bunch of Roman and Incan cities and I don't have Code of Laws for courthouses yet...

Speaking of conquering, here's a closer look at the Roman territory to the south of me:

I think going after Caesar first is the smart thing, especially since he has horses for the CKN's only counter. Converting to Buddhism means relations with Huayna should be cordial; I'm researching Writing for an Open Borders agreement with them to help with that. Plus I need it for CoL. Then it's back to the religious tech path so I can make use of my GP while I build a stack of CKNs. (Or should I switch research to the religious techs now, to increase my chances of founding Christianity? Especially since I just finished IW and should be able to carry over those few extra research points. Hmmmm...)

I want to get to Caesar before he can build too many Praets. Though with CKN's +50% melee bonus taking their strength down from 8 to 4 (that is how it works, isn't it?) they're a lot less scary.

Huayna's UU, in contrast, is a joke. Especially now.

So you can see why I found it so hard to exit the game. One of the biggest gambles I've ever pursued in Civ IV has paid off and I'm anxious to put it to good use.

This is gonna be FUN.