ALC Game #3: China/Qin

[Sisiutil]

UB, I tend to prefer the continents maps, or fractals (which I've read are the old, pre-1.61 continents maps). I do like having that consistency for comparison between the games as well. It's been my experience that substantially different maps require significantly different strategies, and I'm trying to focus on what makes each leader and civ unique. But thanks for the suggestion. It might be interesting to follow this up with an "all maps challenge".

As for the UU, I'm hoping the opposite with Hatty. I'm interested in trying an early-early rush, which is really only possible with a formidable early UU like Egypt, Mali, Persia, the Incans, and the Greeks have. As you've no doubt noticed from the previous ALC games, I tend to build up my civ first before going for that early war. I'm interested in trying a different strategy this time. But we'll talk about that in the pre-game thread.

Pigswill, I like that suggestion. I didn't find this game too repetitive because the traits were so different between the two leaders and I made much more use of the UU this time. Even so, I think I went through it a little faster, and that could be why--same city names, voice effects, etc. I could see where the games would be very repetitive with two leaders, like the French, Indians, and Mongols have, who have an overlapping trait. So it might make sense to try one leader from each of those civs, carry on, and come back and try the other leader later.

(On a side note, I won't be playing an ALC game as Elizabeth because she's one of my favourite leaders, and a very popular one besides. I've skipped both Americans for the same reasons, and I'll also be skipping Caesar and Catherine. Everyone else is fair game, though!)

EDIT: Nares, I did produce some CKNs in the Mao game, but mainly gave them City Garrison promotions like I do all other Archery units. Their shining moment in that game--which I did not sufficiently highlight--was when Montezuma attacked that Malinese city I'd captured immediately to his north. He threw wave after wave of Horse Archers and Crossbowmen (and odd stack combination, I agree) at that city, and the two CKNs fortified within it took most of the punishment and earned most of the promotions as a result. IIRC, one went from Level 2 CG I, all the way to level 5 with CG III and Combat I.

 

[uncarved block]

Sisiutil, that's why I said I was torn; each civ's UU is, well, unique, and a game played without using it feels . . hollow once you're done. As far as an "all maps challenge" goes, don't think of it as any added pressure. What you're doing now must be very time consuming, and I'd hate for it to go from "fun" to "work" because of any expectations from your audience. The main reason I threw that out was my speculation that Hub would be difficult on Prince, and impossible at an level higher than that. If anyone else wants to throw me some evidence to the contrary, I'd welcome it.

 

[Sisiutil]

I've started the pre-game thread for game #4 HERE.

 

[aelf]

I played a game with Qin on my own, although it wasn't a mirror game as I wanted to play on Emperor. I found the Industrious trait useful as always and Financial saved me from bankruptcy because I didn't go for Currency quickly and had no shrines till the industrial age.

Now that I am experiencing a Financial game again, I am certain that Aggressive is just as strong, if not better, because of the promotion advantage it gives your melee and gunpowder units. But Industrious really shone on its own in this game. I grabbed Metal Casting with the Oracle and built a forge on each of my two early cities and began pumping out axemen and swordsmen. The early game military production was awesome with those forges, and I pretty much ensured victory early on by completely killing Bismark and tripling my empire in my first war. After that, it was a matter of conquering the Incas and the Greeks one by one. I am moving steadily and firmly towards a space win now.

I didn't find CKN to be that wonderful, though. Due to the overwhelming success of my first war, I spent most of medieval age trying to balance my budget. And Machinery is really expensive to research. When I did build CKNs, I used them together with catapults. After bombarding a heavily defended city, I would throw two catapults at the defenders, followed by two CKNs. Mathematically, the 2nd CKN should have a good chance of surviving (better than a 3rd and 4th cat), although in my game CKNs did not display an impressive determination to live (made me think hard about the value of first strikes). This tactic makes it a breeze for your city raider units, while giving you good protection against enemy maces before that and ensuring that you still have enough cats to move on to the next city asap after that.

One thing I learned: early forges rock.

 

[Fetch]

Sisiutil-

Haven't been here in a while. Good to see you won the game. I've got a question about the little tundra cities the AIs put there. Was it really to your advantage to devote resources to flip them? I believe you also said you were preparing to go to war to get rid of them? What does this do for you except deter you from your spaceship victory?

 

[Sisiutil]

Sisiutil-

Haven't been here in a while. Good to see you won the game. I've got a question about the little tundra cities the AIs put there. Was it really to your advantage to devote resources to flip them? I believe you also said you were preparing to go to war to get rid of them? What does this do for you except deter you from your spaceship victory?

Exactly. The goal I have when pursuing one of the "peaceful" victories (Space Ship or Cultural) is to avoid war.

Yet I was gearing up to take those cities by force. Why, if I wanted to avoid war? Because enemy cities in my territory are a bigger threat. They add to the "our close borders cause tensions" diplomacy demerit, and they provide the AI with a very inviting beachhead for invasion. If the AI gets flight and builds airports, they can drop troops in there like there's no tomorrow. In the past, I've had a space ship competitor declare war and make a bee-line to my best industrial city to cripple my SS parts building.

So I was planning on taking the cities, owning the continent, suing for peace, and then getting a Defensive Pact with Asoka to deter any further aggression. Well, Asoka beat me to the punch. If I'd gone to war after that, the DP would be null and void with no guarantee Asoka would reinstate it when I was done.

The advantage, however, was that I could then, as you say, focus on building the spaceship rather than fighting a war. Even with enemy cities in my territory, it was unlikely anyone would attack. Nevertheless, the threat remained, especially with so many of those little cities so close to my industrial powerhouse, Cuzco; at the very least, my opponents could go on a pillaging spree and cripple its production capacity.

Upping the culture output in nearby cities actually fit into my other plans. Cuzco did this by building several late-game Wonders I wanted anyway. Xian did it by becoming the GP farm and building one of the best Wonders for that city specialization, the Globe Theatre. Oly-whatever was my unhappiest city, so I had to build a fair number of culture-magnifiers there. Rome and Tiwanaku were pretty good commerce cities, so I built Libraries and Universities in each which also produce culture.

I should add that I rarely pursue city-flipping as a goal because it's so unreliable. More reliable and valuable is tile-flipping, or even tile-protecting. Liverpool's borders were threatening Cuzco's copper mine, so increased cultural output safeguarded that tile. Xian was able to deny one of Mansa's cities an iron mine, while Rome's borders claimed the other one's marble quarry, thereby reducing those cities' production capacity (and threat) significantly. I also gained some additional forests for chopping to speed SS production. Pushing back the borders also slows down the advance of an attacking enemy force. Flipping a city is something I regard as a pleasant surprise bonus if it occurs.

 

[Fetch]

Either way, I guess the moral here is to leave the crappy AI cities in the tundra on your next conquest, or deal with the problem of another AI putting a city down there.

 

[Sisiutil]

Yep. It never ceases to amaze me just how opportunistic the AI can be.

Mind you, it also surprises me when I build a city on tudra or even ice and it turns out to be a pretty decent little burg. (Heh. Burg - berg. Get it? Right, I'll keep my day job...)