ALC Game #4: Egypt/Hatshepsut

There is no such adjustment factor. Probably what has happened is that an Aggressive AI got out to a good head start and kept mauling people. Which would explain the other continents lagging behind the usual pace. I've had games where its been Genghis/Monty/Tokugawa/Caesar.

Its not the likely outcome but it happens often enough. Especially if the religious blocks break down to facilitate conflict.
 
Good job... OK you are at 60% research.. we'll say 50% for the sake of things... (make sure you have Monarchy before going for Liberalism if you want to Get DR... I don't think you extorted it from Vicky, and it would be good to have the Civic anyways.)

Now building... NOTHING but Settlers and Workers... Forget Granaries/Forges/Theaters/Missionaries (your cities will pick up a religion spontaneously.. they have access to four Holy Cities....in each city Finish up whatever you are building and Then repeat Build Settlers and Workers (maybe delay them a turn or 2 at most to get a pop growth.)

Exception: Vandal... assuming you have gone Bureaucracy, Vandal should continue building Commerce Improvements (Monasteries, University, Marketplace... have the workers focus their cottaging there too.)

Once you have Liberalism then Found all those Cities. Some should be founded immediately (ie Rome, to speed the remaining Stone Wonders as well as ones that can get quick access to Luxuries) but the rest of the Settlers just keep in Reserve.

[after Getting Liberalism don't worry about dropping Science down to 10%, just Cottage up and you'll be OK)

And I'd agree on pulling units in, for City busting when Necessary (and Worker Escort)

Now the New Cities should build Courthouses and Granaries and Marketplaces, etc. but not the existing Cities... until the Continent is Settled

Until you Get Liberalism I'd keep the civics
HR
Bureaucracy
Slavery (Maybe Caste if you get for Merchants from new cities)
---
Paganism (OR only works with Buildings... so as soon as most buildings are done..switch to Paganism to save on Costs)


After the 'Great Settling' then as soon as possible
HR->US
Bureaucracy->FS (once there are more Towns outside of Vandal than around it)
Slavery->Serfdom->Emancipation
None->Mercantilism->FM (with Contact)
Pagan->Pacifism->FR (when all religions have Shrines)

PS the Spearmen that attacked Coventry should have had City Raider.
 
Krikkitone said:
PS the Spearmen that attacked Coventry should have had City Raider.

I think that's debatable. Obviously for the short term goal of taking the city, City Raider is the best choice. However, assuming they survive, City Raider becomes a fairly useless promotion 1 or 2 turns later when Victoria is eliminated. Combat I, on the other hand, has more long term value if you use them for defense, killing barbarians, or almost any other spearman-like purpose.

Did they need the extra oomph that City Raider would have given them? Did they die? It looks from the screenshots like the combat odds were around 95% in their favor. City Raider might have boosted that to 98%. I'd be willing to sacrifice that extra 3% in order to get a more useful promotion.
 
Dr Elmer Jiggle said:
I think that's debatable. Obviously for the short term goal of taking the city, City Raider is the best choice. However, assuming they survive, City Raider becomes a fairly useless promotion 1 or 2 turns later when Victoria is eliminated. Combat I, on the other hand, has more long term value if you use them for defense, killing barbarians, or almost any other spearman-like purpose.

Did they need the extra oomph that City Raider would have given them? Did they die? It looks from the screenshots like the combat odds were around 95% in their favor. City Raider might have boosted that to 98%. I'd be willing to sacrifice that extra 3% in order to get a more useful promotion.

Well you probably could have Not used the Catapults with CR Spearmen... and then you would have promotables to CR Riflemen/Infantry.

Although it was more just for the idea of having CR Spears.
 
I agree with Krikkitone that settling the continent is the priority after tech racing; you'll have to decide if you want circumnavigation bonus which would mean going for optics before the great settlement. You can build some settlers in anticipation because I would imagine you can build some non-military units without financial penalty. I like the idea of printing press because you don't have to construct buildings or wonders or units to benefit from it.As usual you're getting divergent advice which certainly helps you think outside your normal game plan.
 
Well there are only a few 'Tech' races left [there are also 'Wonder Races' but those are different]

1. Liberalism
2. Divine Right
3. Circumnavigation
4. Economics
5. Physics
6. Fusion

4-6 are far enough off that they can be done After Settling

I'd say #3 is pointless unless you intend to go Domination/conquest.. and even then hardly necessary.

So Settling after a Liberalism->DR is probably the best, especially since Compass, Machinery and Optics are All required for circumnavigation.

Printing Press you can get in the Ordinary Course of things (plus it needs Machinery)
 
I don't see the point in delaying till he gets liberalism truthfully. Once he gets all of that land settled the AI cannot beat him in a technology race. He'll be bigger than any of his rivals. Plus I have a feeling he might very well hit liberalism first even settling his continent if he does it prudently.
 
Round 10: to 1600 AD

Confesson time: I am, at heart, a builder.

Don't get me wrong, I like warring, it's fun, but it's not an end unto itself. Why do I always set out to conquer territory?

So I can do this:

ALC-Hatty1600AD_01.jpg


ALC-Hatty1600AD_06.jpg


ALC-Hatty1600AD_07.jpg


ALC-Hatty1600AD_10.jpg


WHEEEEEE!!! Wonders, wonders, wonders! It wasn't easy going cold turkey during the wars. Cripes, I was so hard up I even built Chichen Itza, and I never build Chichen Itza. Just for the GP points! And because I can! Who's gonna stop me? Barbs? Hah!

Oh yeah, some other stuff happened too.

Yes, yes, once the wonders were finished, I started building Settlers. Well, that and Universities, once I had Education.

I got my next Great Scientist, and used him to build an Academy in Vandal:

ALC-Hatty1600AD_03.jpg


That shaved a turn off of Education right away. Very gratifying.

I built the first city of the Great Expansion:

ALC-Hatty1600AD_04.jpg


Hmmm, okay, we're starting to get into the more obscure Egyptian names now. Honestly, when the pop-up appeared a few turns later telling me "The borders of Pi-Ramesses have expanded!" I was going, "Huh? Where?" So I'm forgoing the civ names for my own; I renamed this city Nova Roma. The new cities near London and Madrid will probably get names from those civs; others are being named after locations and/or resources (Silver City, Dyetown, East Riceburg). It makes remembering where they are a lot easier. I'm going to have over two dozen of the things, I have to know where they are!

Oh, and I renamed the capital. Something about having a capital named "Vandal" just bothered me. Since I am rushing headlong towards modernization, I renamed the capital Cairo.

And guess who came calling:

ALC-Hatty1600AD_05.jpg


I know I didn't say anything earlier, but when I saw that another civ had been eliminated, I had a very short list of suspects, and this guy was right at the top. Napoleon is one of the very few AI civs I've seen eliminate another AI civ.

This particular screenshot tells many tales, doesn't it? First of all, yes, I got beaten to Divine Right very early into this round, so that became a low priority, though I would still very much like to try for its wonders. Second, Nappy is Jewish, but notice how he did not found Judaism. He may not have even founded Islam or Christianity, since he hasn't converted, but it's too early to tell. This leads me to believe that there is another Spiritual civ on the other continent, one that also prioritizes research. Now who could that be? A certain Malinese gentleman, perhaps? We'll see.

Anyway, relations with the Little Corporal are rocky at best. We completed the above tech trade, then he showed up a few turns later demanding my world map. I sent him packing. Why make it any easier for him to get the circumnavigation bonus? I wouldn't mind taking a crack at it myself.

I fully expect him to attempt an invasion at some point. I'll have to watch for when he gets Astronomy. In the meantime, I plan on sealing off my east coast with cities, since that's where his Caravel first appealed. I don't have Open Borders with him--should I do that for now in the hopes of getting Judaism, Christianity, and/or Islam to spread to one of my cities? I think a trade route is needed, so that means it won't happen until Astronomy.

It turns out that Nappy was the one building most of those earlier wonders, which makes sense, given that Industrious trait:

ALC-Hatty1600AD_12.jpg


I followed pigswill's suggestion and researched Machinery after Education. Even with that detour, I was still able to get to Liberalism first:

ALC-Hatty1600AD_08.jpg


Printing Press was definitely the best choice. It gave my economy a big shot in the arm right away.

In fact, even though I've added five more cities in this round, I'm running research at 60% and slightly in the black. This is not only thanks to Printing Press, but also a change in civics:

ALC-Hatty1600AD_09.jpg


Free Speech provides a +2 gold boost per town, and both it and Free Religion offer much lower upkeep costs. I'm also running a few Merchant specialists, I'm micromanaging tile assignments in each city almost every turn, my workers are being run off their feet, and I'm doing my best to keep my units within my borders as well as deleting most of the unpromoted ones. All of this means I'm finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel economy-wise. Phew.

Not that it matters much just yet, but I'm not too far behind Napoleon in terms of power:

ALC-Hatty1600AD_11.jpg


The slight rise I'm experiencing is probably due to a couple of situational upgrades to Macemen to deal with barbs (they're coming at me with Horse Archers and Swordsmen now). I'm also having Memphis--with Heroic Epic, now my designated military city--pump out Longbowmen for each city, thanks to getting Feudalism from Napoleon.

And here's a look at the map:

ALC-Hatty1600AD_02.jpg


I'll have Optics on the next turn. As I said, I would like to take a crack at the circumnavigation bonus. If nothing else, I'll meet the third remaining civ, explore the world, and maybe do some more strategic tech trades. I also want to have a look at Napoleon's forces before deciding whether I want to take him on in pursuit of a conquest or domination victory. I may switch civics to Slavery for a few turns and whip a couple of Caravels in Barcelona and Alexandria, which are overpopulated. Harbours will help--once I get them built.

After I have Optics, I want to research Divine Right to take a crack at those two wonders. I might get beat to them, since Napoleon and probably the other civ both have a lead on me, but again, at worst, that's an infusion of gold into my coffers.

I am also reassured by the fact that Printing Press is a pre-req for Replacable Parts and Rifling. My isolation should allow my to bypass building or upgrading to most of the medieval units and go straight to the rennaissance/industrial ones. I'm keeping my veteran WCs (Level 4/5) in anticipation of upgrading them to Cavalry when needed.

But what do YOU think?

Here's the saved game file:
 
VoiceOfUnreason said:
At this point, I think I have no idea what victory you are pursuing. Did you abandon cultural for conquest?

Also, did you develop an allergy to GP?
You're right, I don't. I'm trying to leave my options open. I've built the Sistine Chapel just in case I do decide to go for cultural. I think the three best candidates for legendary status at this point are Thebes, Heliopolis, and London.

As for GPs, Mr. Wiseacre, I am trying actively to generate two Great Prophets in Heliopolis and in Barcelona. I haven't built National Epic yet in the latter--it's on my to do list, believe me, but I'm trying to get some more temples there first so I can run priest specialists. Barcelona is generating more GP points than any other city just from specialists, even without NE; I'm trying to ensure I get GP points of the right type.

I may use the whip in Barcelona for more than just a Caravel. With its abundance of food, it seems to have no problem recovering from my "cruel oppression".

Eggolas said:
I think there are some surprises in store for you. Get those caravels out there.
Cool. I like surprises. Will do.
 
Well, Very interesting, Looks like your up against the Monotheists.

Right now,
Optics--Circumnavigation
DR--for Versailles, Minaret is Only for the GP points [and I assume you have Marble Hooked up finally if not that should be the next city] That is one you Really want to get


As for how you want to proceed with Napoleon, Open Borders won't help unless he
1. Sends a missionary in his Caravels
2. Has Astronomy (passive)

both low likelihood

And also more religions Really aren't useful unless you go Cultural

Right now just keep pumping Settlers (You're still building Theaters in some cities...) argh, you have a vast unexploited continent... time to exploit it.

I guess the Universities would be OK If they are only the ones needed to build Oxford.

Quite frankly that is all you need to do.. spam Settlers, Build Versailles, and Circumnavigate

Heroic Epic City Should keep pumping out units, Cairo should build Science.

Cottages should be spammed

Bureaucracy Might be better than Free Speech for you (especially with Cairo getting sufficient Science Buildings)

After DR I'd go Government (up to Democracy and Corporation) with an Astronomy detour, then Cavalry and Riflemen.

The point at which you Truly decide on Victory Condition is after you've got Riflemen and Cavalry

Then its
Steel for Conquest/Domination
Physics for Space Race
Stop for Cultural (or Biology for a Specialist Economy... and then up to Mass Media for the % Wonders)
 
To quote the immortal (if relatively unknown) words of someone else (who I haven't the slightest clue who that is):

"Good night, game over, drive home safely."

No, seriously. You're coming up on cruise control time.

And that Barbarian Warrior popping up in 1525 AD was a laugh. Be honest, how many of you actually saw it in the midst of all that wonder spam?

I noticed a rogue dark spot in the deep south by those Silver deposits. Looks like there might be some black gold down there to soak your Silver in.

Good job. Keep it up.
 
Don't build, settle. Don't research, settle.Settle, settle,settle.
Or to put it another way you've got your race techs. Now its time to dominate the game, that means more cities, the sooner you start the bigger they get, the more tiles you work, the more commerce and production you have.
That's what I think.
 
1) Forget about keeping Napoleon off your continent. The AIs are incredibly tenacious about spamming settlers; I think they do it to provide strategic footholds. Whatever the reason, he /will/ put a city down, even if it's in the worst possible location (like the northern ice-and-tundra penninsula, or that funny desert in the northwest).

So, just make sure you have all the good locations sewn up.

Here's where your Creative trait comes in handy -- you get expansion to fat cross in just five turns. That'll close off the coastline fairly quickly.

2) And speaking of being Creative, good to see you building those cheap theaters.

3) But why haven't you picked up Guilds and Banking yet? I thought you were worried about your economy. Groceries and Banks! That's how you're going to afford building half a dozen more cities. (To turn that around... if you /don't/ get Guilds and Banking soon, you'll be faced with an ugly choice between keeping up in the tech race and completing the conquest of your continent. Without access to these buildings, you won't easily be able to do both.)

4) Mercantilism!

MERCANTILISM!

Sure, Nappy will have Astronomy soon, but you have Angkor Wat! Mercantilism + Angkor Wat utterly kicks ass! You can have one free hammer-priest in every city... that's TWO shields plus three gold plus two GP points, in EVERY city. Free.

Banking. Mercantilism. Now.

5) Open Borders or no: interesting question, and very fraught. I'd say no, at least until you've explored a little.

I'd also agree that this one looks wrapped, assuming no nasty surprises.


Waldo
 
Krikkitone said:
DR--for Versailles, Minaret is Only for the GP points [and I assume you have Marble Hooked up finally if not that should be the next city] That is one you Really want to get
That's a good point--once you go FR, does the Spiral Minaret maintain any sort of monetary benefit? I don't think it does, but I'm looking for confirmation.

Now that my economy's recovering, I may skip DR altogether. Vormuir's right, I should research along the lower part of the tech tree, and I should spam settlers, not wonders, for now.
 
Sisiutil said:
That's a good point--once you go FR, does the Spiral Minaret maintain any sort of monetary benefit? I don't think it does, but I'm looking for confirmation.

Now that my economy's recovering, I may skip DR altogether. Vormuir's right, I should research along the lower part of the tech tree, and I should spam settlers, not wonders, for now.

No it doesn't

And skipping DR is probably reasonable, let the Science slider go down to ~10-20% since there are no more really nearby wonders/races (Taj is closest) and the lower area for Mercantilism would be good... and alows you to go to Rifling.

And NO MORE Buildings

Without Versailles, you may have to move your Capital again for optimum maintenance.
 
Having made my main point earler I'd think there may be an argument for Versailles to help keep down distance costs (I assume you've built FP already). Its worth considering that while your chariots have served you well they're eating into unit maintenance and providing not much in terms of power.
 
pigswill said:
Having made my main point earler I'd think there may be an argument for Versailles to help keep down distance costs (I assume you've built FP already). Its worth considering that while your chariots have served you well they're eating into unit maintenance and providing not much in terms of power.

At this point, I would expect there would be a large surplus in the homeland defense budget (free unit supply inside cultural borders). Those WCs can't be using all that much of that budget (well, unless you have stacks and stacks of them still, which I'm assuming there's not).

From what I see, the major difficulty present in constructing Versailles is that you know Divine Right is already known by an AI. No less, it's an AI that has the Industrious trait. And that same AI is bound to have an atypically large amount of land for a non-starting continent civ (happy happy friendship land is the norm for the other side of the pond in continents). Heck, this is the first time I've seen an AI kill another AI on its own accord in any of the ALCs.

I just wonder if its worst investing first the research, and then the production into building this wonder that there's a strong chance Napoleon will build. Then again, there is no better situation to construct Versailles than when in ownership of a rectangular continent. Thebes would be the ideal city for it, with Forbidden Palace (did you build this yet, Sisiutil?) in York (or New York, as it may be at this point), or vice versa if you've already built FB in the north (I have this nagging feeling that you built FB in Memphis...).

Krikkitone said:
Without Versailles, you may have to move your Capital again for optimum maintenance.

Why? Vandal seems to be the centermost city (any more centered would require the destruction of Vandal to allow the two-tile allowance for cities). Any other reasoning behind the Palace's placement?
 
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