Alcohol-based expolsive , similar to napalm ?

[aneeshm]

If you take 150 power ( 75 % by volume ) alcohol , saturate the solution with gelatine , let the thing jellify , carve out a small piece and make an air-bubble inside , and finally put a fuse in the bubble or a number fo fuses to detonate it simultaneously at different points , can the thing be an effective explosive ?



And is posting such a thing against the forum rules ( you never know which idiot might sue if he actually tries this and the thing works ) .

 

[Juka The Dumb]

yeah i think some scandinavian country used alcohol explosives in ww2,but anyway alcohol is flameable so i dont see why not..

wait i'll try it at home now.....aha,i dont have my arm anymore...thank you very much,see you at court aneeshm.

 

[thetrooper]

@Juka: are you referring to the Molotov Cocktail? Finnish soldiers used MCs against Red Army tanks in two conflicts (Winter War and Continuation War) between Finland and the Soviet Union. The MC was a bottle filled with either methanol or ethanol, the mouth of the bottle is stoppered with a cork or other type of airtight bung (rubber, glass, or plastic), and a cloth rag fixed securely around the mouth. The weapon is used by first soaking the rag in a flammable liquid immediately prior to using it, lighting the rag and throwing the bottle at the target. The bottle shatters on impact, spilling the flammable liquid over the target which is then ignited by the burning rag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail

 

[Mise]

If you take 150 power ( 75 % by volume ) alcohol , saturate the solution with gelatine , let the thing jellify , carve out a small piece and make an air-bubble inside , and finally put a fuse in the bubble or a number fo fuses to detonate it simultaneously at different points , can the thing be an effective explosive ?



And is posting such a thing against the forum rules ( you never know which idiot might sue if he actually tries this and the thing works ) .

Where'd you read that? Jolly Roger's Anarchist's Cookbook XVIII?

Anyway, is there any reasoning behind that? Do you have the chemical structural formula for the part of gelatin which explodes?

EDIT: What I meant was, is there any particular reason why you think this might explode?

 

[thetrooper]

If you take 150 power ( 75 % by volume ) alcohol , saturate the solution with gelatine , let the thing jellify , carve out a small piece and make an air-bubble inside , and finally put a fuse in the bubble or a number fo fuses to detonate it simultaneously at different points , can the thing be an effective explosive ?



And is posting such a thing against the forum rules ( you never know which idiot might sue if he actually tries this and the thing works ) .

To make something explosive you need basic materials that (on detonation) will turn into gaseous state. The gases provide the blast. It is all about volume change. So, your alcohol/gelatine or agar combination will not be an effective explosive. But it will burn like...

 

[Juka The Dumb]

@Juka: are you referring to the Molotov Cocktail?

bingo,clockwork orange.
now ethanol is alcohol,isnt it?i think you can drink it...and go blind,but you're drunk,so who cares...

 

[thetrooper]

Methanol (not ethanol) can make you blind. First comment on A Clockwork Orange, bravo!

Back OT: 2 moles TNT decompose into 20 moles of gaseous products. That is an explosion.

 

[Speedo]

Napalm doesn't explode, it just burns. The tank it is dropped in just breaks open and spreads it over an area... Take a styrofoam cup and dip it in gasoline, and the resulting gel-like substances is fairly similar to napalm.

Random trivia: in WW2 they rigged some napalm tanks by using a normal aircraft drop-tank and strapping a hand grenade to the front of it...

OT: I think most alcohol products ignite to slowly to be used as [effective] explosive.

 

[aneeshm]

Then as a suffocant ?

 

[Immortal]

find 190 proof, that is the only solution.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

I don´t think this will work out
Reasons:
1) a rather high water content (will quench the explosion)
2) Gelatine is a protein and it is therefore rather inert to oxidation (many already oxidised carbon atoms) You could compare its oxidational status with acetic acid

My prediction: Your mixture will burn slowly and smell like hell.

If you would mix powdered sugar with nitrate fertilizer or nitrate fertilizer with diesel (gasoline is too volatile and dangerous) you would have an easy home-made explosive. Another alternative is gasoline saturated with polystyrene (very close to Napalm), but beware of the gasoline vapour.

If you mix the powders use a soft brush, avoid friction and if you fill it into a pipe DON`T TRY TO COMPRESS IT.


I have in my career as chemist made TNT, Nitroglycerine, Ag-Acetylide, Pb-Azid, Nitropenta and Acetoneperoxide but you would need some equipment and Chemicals for it and some experience with handling (too dangerous for a noob). I made education with explosives at the University (we have a department for construction science) and you can not be careful enough. You aways hear 2-3 cases of kids losing fingers-arms when fabricating fireworks themselves per year.

 

[aneeshm]

I have no interest in anything that is volatile and liabel to get me killed or injured . I'm lookign for a stable explosive that will ignite when I tell it to , not before . Alcohol seemed to fit that bill . The gelatin is supposed only to jellify it , not to provide further power . Say something 180 power would do the job if the water was heated to 80-85 degrees , saturated with gelatin , and then alcohol ( colder ) was immediatley added . The solution would jellify before the gelatin could precipitate , and a strong jelly could be formed .



I'm not really interested in explosiver per se , but I have a question for Mr. Blonde : can you please suggest an efficient , energy intensive fuel which can be used withoug a seperate oxidiser as a rocket propellant ?

 

[Mr. Blonde]

For hobby built rockets there are several possibilities

Some work with pressurised air. You would need a pressure resistant vessel with vent and a compressor - safest method.

Single chemical fuel: Would have the oxidiser as part of the chemical compound- metastable and dangerous (nitromethane, TNT, Triazine,...), not feasable for your purpose

One component fuel as mixture: commercial available hobby rocketery use perchlorate (=oxidiser) in a rubber (PE, PP or PS) matrix (=fuel). Safest solution - check out http://www.publicmissiles.com/

Two component fuels can be very different: N2O (Nitrogenoxide, gaseous oxidiser) with H2N-NH2 (Hydrazine=fuel) burns like hell. I think the russians had a nitric acid (or N2O5) / Hydrazine combination.

Btw, your mixture is not an explosive, it will burn slowly, sitck to some extent and have a bad stench due to your protein matrix. Starch would be better as gelating agent. Burns better and will not stink.

 

[Shaihulud]

How about black poweder? The stuff you used for rockets and fireworks. I used to remember grinding it for my Dad, it's sulfur, charcoal and some solid nitrate thing propably saltpetre like in Civ3! ANyway it's quite safe if you don't confine it in a tight container. When grinding it use a slow bu forceful method to press the psetle aganist the side of the pestle otherwise you might burn your eyebrow !

To: Mr Blonde, could you enlighten me if black poweder needs to be in certain proportion pls and if there is a substitute for the nitrate part what form would be the best thanks!

 

[aneeshm]

How about a suspension of any fuel ( powdered form ) in highly pressurised air ?

For example , if I take some of the nitrate-sugar combos you mentioned , powdered them both to a degree where they would float in the air in the form of a suspension for at least a few minutes , and add the two , and ultimately add this mixture to the canister of to be pressurised before pressurising it . Before launch , shake the thing , and have an ignition mechanism to be initiated at launch ?

 

[Mr. Blonde]

We also did black powder back in school (8 years ago). What is essential is that the powders are really grained separate and fine and mixed well (best is a brush). Black powder is a kind of unpredictable and dangerous (but cheap). The recipy can vary in the composition, but one I remember is 75% KNO3, 15% coal and 10% sulfur (weight). One substitute I can imagine are either chlorates or perchlorates (perchlorates are more dangerous and explode faster), I think chlorates will work (the ratio for substitution is almost 1:1).

We also did Bengali fireworks at school which consisted of either nitrate or chlorate (or both) with powdered sugar. It´s usually 3 parts chlorate with 1-1.5 parts sugar and 0.1-0.5 parts salts for colouring:
Mg white
Sr intensive red
Cu green
Co blue
Pb bright white/blue
Ca red-orange (like a brick)
Sodium yellow

 

[Mr. Blonde]

For example , if I take some of the nitrate-sugar combos you mentioned , powdered them both to a degree where they would float in the air in the form of a suspension for at least a few minutes , and add the two , and ultimately add this mixture to the canister of to be pressurised before pressurising it . Before launch , shake the thing , and have an ignition mechanism to be initiated at launch ?

The powder has to be really fine to float (low-sub µm). The exhausting/ burning must be balanced (that the powder is not blown out before it starts to burn). I doubt that the pressurised air will add that much to the power a burning fuel creates. Let´s say a 1 g ~ 1 ml of a sugar/nitrate combo will give roughly 1 l of gas, you would have to compress air to until it liquifies (several 100 bars) to get that kind of expansion force.