Alexander the Great in Mythologies all over the world

[Mouthwash]

Not speechless enough to keep it to yerself. Care to elaborate?

I just found your statement to be the best thing I've read all day.

Either way, it's worth adding, the particular sort of racial narrative that tends to come into play with Alexander is historicist rather than naturalist, race as "culture" rather than as biology alone. In that framework, what distinguishes Alexander from his opponents isn't physiology, but the fact he participates in vital, dynamic "European civilisation", while the Persians are trapped in a sluggish "Eastern civilisation". Hence, although Alexander was not only physiology but in every meaningful respect much closer to the Persian emperor than he was to a contemporary Northern European, let alone a modern day one, Europeans have felt comfortably claiming him as "theirs", as a sort of collective ancestor-spirit, and as opposed to a nebulous Oriental "them".

I would think being obsessed (yes, I think that term is appropriate for me and plenty of people on here) with a history game that colors entire areas differently depending on which "civilization" owns them might facilitate that impression.

 

[Dachs]

I would think being obsessed (yes, I think that term is appropriate for me and plenty of people on here) with a history game that colors entire areas differently depending on which "civilization" owns them might facilitate that impression.

Surely "fanatical about" would be more appropriate than "obsessed with". But yes, I agree that the Civilization games facilitate a somewhat erroneous understanding of the Way History Works.

 

[Joecoolyo]

The Arabs, for example, forced their culture and religion on Iran.

I was under the impression that they didn't, actually. Islam was slowly adopted in the conquered regions, most likely at first to avoid the extra taxes.

 

[Mouthwash]

I was under the impression that they didn't, actually. Islam was slowly adopted in the conquered regions, most likely at first to avoid the extra taxes.

I thought mass conversions occurred before the rise of the Caliphate.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I thought mass conversions occurred before the rise of the Caliphate.

You are mistaken. In fact, the Arabs were at first quite shocked that Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians would want to convert to their religion. The Pagans converting they got, and the early Muslims had a real big beef with the Pagans, or with people they thought were Pagans. Christians and Jews they had quite the sweet spot for, which is why many of them welcomed the Muslim conquerors, who were far more tolerant than their previous Byzantine or Persian rulers. But conversion just wasn't something they had considered.

HThe Arabs, for example, forced their culture and religion on Iran.

That would be why a Muslim majority was not achieved in most of Persia until the 12th century, right? Zoroastrians payed the Jizya like any People of the Book. There was certainly no forcing of Islam upon them, although conversion was still the best way to advance to the highest rungs of society.

In Islam, massive forced conversions were essentially unheard of before Tamerlane. A true and honest conversion was desired, as pronouncing the shahada without the backing of true belief in its words is irrelevant. I can say it right now and it won't make me a Muslim, because I don't believe it.

 

[r16]

... that Alexander's achievements have been exaggerated because they have been (erroneously) portrayed as a matter of a white European bringing civilisation to the decadent easterners.

am firmly of the opinion that we would have known "nothing" on the Persians and their "kinda" global empire had the Greeks not fought them and Alexander conquered them not .

whenever people speak of Indian Civilizations in CFC ı certainly have no clue what they are talking about . Yet you can't escape Alexander's mighty achievements ...

 

[Arachnofiend]

am firmly of the opinion that we would have known "nothing" on the Persians and their "kinda" global empire had the Greeks not fought them and Alexander conquered them not .

whenever people speak of Indian Civilizations in CFC ı certainly have no clue what they are talking about . Yet you can't escape Alexander's mighty achievements ...

This is mainly because you grew up in a western culture and was taught in western schools and learned from western textbooks written by western historians

 

[Phrossack]

This is mainly because you grew up in a western culture and was taught in western schools and learned from western textbooks written by western historians

For what it's worth, r16's Turkish.

 

[Arachnofiend]

For what it's worth, r16's Turkish.

Of course he is.

Moderator Action: Removed the inappropriate part, it was gratuitous and unnecessary. Please follow the rules for bad language in future.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Phrossack]

Friendly fellow, aren't you? I didn't think Turkey has been so Western for decades that being raised there automatically turns one into an Alexander fan, let alone that it's been so Western that anyone who suggests otherwise deserves hostility.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

This is mainly because you grew up in a western culture and was taught in western schools and learned from western textbooks written by western historians

Since the ancient Persian script was not decoded until relatively recently, it stands to reason that we know far more about the Persian Empire because of Greek writings about it than we would have had the Greeks, the primary source of historical writing at that time, up until around 200 years ago, not written about the Persians. Westerners or otherwise.

 

[Masada]

I loathe Alexandros and I was educated in the West.

 

[Traitorfish]

I have a sneaking sympathy for Alexander, because it must have been very hard for growing up in ancient Macedonia with an Irish accent.

 

[Masada]

Alexandros was Irish which goes a long way to explaining why I don't like the bugger.

 

[Kyriakos]

If Alexander was irish that would at least explain why he did not want to fight the other irish (celtic at any rate) tribes above Macedonia, instead focusing on the actual quasi-civilized world in Asia

He probably was not predominantly irish though, but slavic. Slavic-irish seems to be the most plausible proto-slavic national state, centered in Pella and Aegae. The meaning of the latter name, after all, obviously links the whole thing back to irishmen

 

[Traitorfish]

Alexandros was Irish which goes a long way to explaining why I don't like the bugger.

Oh, he wasn't Irish. He was Albania or whatever, I guess. He just had an Irish accent. I saw it in a documentary.

 

[Masada]

Nah, I saw it on the History Channel dude.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Friendly fellow, aren't you? I didn't think Turkey has been so Western for decades that being raised there automatically turns one into an Alexander fan, let alone that it's been so Western that anyone who suggests otherwise deserves hostility.

I think you're misunderstanding my post? The exasperation is due to learning of his ethnicity kind of blowing my argument out of the water. It's a lot easier to make the argument when you know you're against another American.

Cheezy's point clarifies things for me, though, so eh.

 

[GoodGame]

He was one awesome Slav.

Was Alexander III technically Slavic? I know modern Macedon is Slavic, but I recall reading Alexander I was pronounced a Greek in order to compete in their Olympics as a sprinter.

According to Wikipedia, the ancient Macedonians were mythically from Argos.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Alexandros was Irish which goes a long way to explaining why I don't like the bugger.

Can't be. If he was, we'd know virtually nothing about him.