I have almost completed the Scythian Cities, for all 'eras'. (Should be ready Monday Night). You wanted palisades walls around the two bigger Scythian cities right? Or just one for the 'wall file'? I have been making the walls around it all, but I still have the non-wall version. What should I do next, something with cities, or the buildings Icons?
Alexander the Great Scenario: Help!
- Thread starter Pangur Bán
- Start date
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
Thanks PCHighway! 
I really cannot thank you enough.
As for walls around the Scythian 'cities'....the idea is to make them the same as the other civ's cities.
So two small cities (one with and one without palisaded walls), and two larger cities, both with palisaded walls.
Larger cities automatically have an extra defence, so we might as well show it by giving them walls. And the very smallest cities automatically come without walls, but these can be added if the player/AI wishes to build them.
If you think that my hastily made stone cities look good enough for the other civs, then the next big thing is the new building icons as listed at the top of page three of this thread.
My original plan was to cut-'n-paste various building bits from the Civ3\Art\City View folder (buildings, small wonders, world wonders, city walls, aqueducts, miscellaneous....anything can be adapted, even some 'modern' looking bits).
I thought that we could also cut a few corners by simply using the same icon for the city build window, the city view display, the tech icon and the civilopeadia picture....by just enlarging some of them.
To mrtn & Mongoloid Cow,
Very well, I'll make a small 'village' from the same sources as I mentioned above....
....but I'll also have a go at a small 'freshwater spring' as well.
(say a couple of large rocks with a small pool of water and a few green 'reeds' growing around it)
Then we can choose which looks better.
It's just that there will already be a lot of 'Minor Cities' all over the place, and a 'village' might not stand out enough.
And the ancient scholars do imply that Alexander built all his new cities on fresh sites rather than just enlarging an already exisiting village or hamlet.
"Leave it with me"
(Then I MUST draw up that list of 'Historical Events', so that hetairoi22 has something to work with.......)
I really cannot thank you enough.
As for walls around the Scythian 'cities'....the idea is to make them the same as the other civ's cities.
So two small cities (one with and one without palisaded walls), and two larger cities, both with palisaded walls.
Larger cities automatically have an extra defence, so we might as well show it by giving them walls. And the very smallest cities automatically come without walls, but these can be added if the player/AI wishes to build them.
If you think that my hastily made stone cities look good enough for the other civs, then the next big thing is the new building icons as listed at the top of page three of this thread.
My original plan was to cut-'n-paste various building bits from the Civ3\Art\City View folder (buildings, small wonders, world wonders, city walls, aqueducts, miscellaneous....anything can be adapted, even some 'modern' looking bits).
I thought that we could also cut a few corners by simply using the same icon for the city build window, the city view display, the tech icon and the civilopeadia picture....by just enlarging some of them.
To mrtn & Mongoloid Cow,
Very well, I'll make a small 'village' from the same sources as I mentioned above....
....but I'll also have a go at a small 'freshwater spring' as well.
(say a couple of large rocks with a small pool of water and a few green 'reeds' growing around it)
Then we can choose which looks better.
It's just that there will already be a lot of 'Minor Cities' all over the place, and a 'village' might not stand out enough.
And the ancient scholars do imply that Alexander built all his new cities on fresh sites rather than just enlarging an already exisiting village or hamlet.
"Leave it with me"
(Then I MUST draw up that list of 'Historical Events', so that hetairoi22 has something to work with.......)
hetairoi22
Of the House of Eorl
I was wondering: After you'd sent me the list of 'Events', how long a time have i got to complete the tree?
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
About as long as it takes PCHighway to make the building icons....
Or as long as it takes Loulong to finish the map....
Or as long as it takes me to finish the units....
In your own time matey, in your own time.
(I'm the only one 'under pressure'......)
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
I have (at long last) looked into the tech tree with more detail.
But first, here is a quick broad outline of the HISTORICAL events....
(Things in the scenario will obviously depend upon how it is played)
Historical Events
----------------
336BC = Darius & Alexander both become Kings, Alexander made Captain-General of the Corinthian League, rebellion lead by Khababasha of Ethiopia in Egypt.
335BC = Alexanders Thracian & Illyrian campaigns, the sacking of Thebes, Darius re-conquers Egypt.
334BC = Battle of Granicus, siege of Miletus, Alexander disbands his fleet, siege Halicarnassus, plot against Alexander foiled.
333BC = Death of Memnon, the Gordian Knot, Alexander becomes ill, the battle of Issus, capture of Darius family, Darius 1st peace offer.
332BC = Siege of Tyre, Darius 2nd peace offer, siege of Gaza, Alexander enters Egypt and becomes Pharaoh. (Ariarathes, satrap of Cappadocia, invades Asia Minor, but is defeated by Antigonus)
331BC = Visit to the Oracle of Ammon at Siwah, foundation of Alexandria-on-the-Nile (the first of many Alexandrias), Darius final peace offer rejected, battle of Gaugamela, capture of Babylon, Antipater suppresses a Spartan uprising at the battle of Megalopolis, battle of the Susian Gates.
---------------------------
330BC = Sacking of Persepolis, Greek allies dismissed, Darius murdered and Bessus becomes Great King, Alexander starts using Persian Mounted Javelinmen, Conspiracy of Philotas and execution of Parmenio. (Alexander begins to adopt Persian dress and customs)
329BC = Thessalians dismissed, the Bactrian campaign, capture and death of Bessus, revolt of Spitamenes the satrap of Sogdiana
---------------------------
328BC = The Sogdiana campaign, Alexander kills Cleitus the Black in a drunken rage, defeat and death of Spitamenes.
327BC = Capture of the Soghdian Rock, Alexander marries Roxane, recruitment of 30,000 Persian Successors, the Pages Conspiracy, start of the Indian campaign.
326BC = Battle of Hydaspes against Porus, death of Alexanders horse Bucephalas (ahhh), the MACEDONIAN MUTINY at the Hyphasis river, campaign against the Brahmin cities of the lower Indus.
325BC = The building of the Indian Ocean fleet, march through the Gedrosian Desert, desertion of the treasurer Harpalus.
324BC = Alexander returns to Persepolis, the Susa mass-marriages, death of Alexanders friend Hephaestion, another Macedonian Mutiny at Opis, reorganisation of the empire....
* Persians & Macedonians receive equal rights
* Military & civilian powers separated in the satrapies
* A unified currency is established (based on silver, with Attic/Greek measurements)
* Greek & Persian exiles are pardoned and encouraged to return.
* Alexander adopts full Persian court ceremony, dress and titles, and is also deified.
323BC = Alexander, now a deeply superstitious semi alcoholic, falls ill in Babylon and dies in June.
As you can see, I have split the above chart into three eras: the Darius period, the Bessus period, and the Spitamenes period (so 3 different leaderheads for the Persians).
Id like to do the same for Alexander: a Macedonian Alexander, a half Persian Alexander, and a full Persian God-like Alexander.
Events Tied to the Map
-----------------------
Now many of the above events can be tied into actions on the map, and dont require linking with the tech tree (all battles & sieges for example).
Other examples:-
Alexander disbands his fleet....we limit his income at the start, so he cant afford to maintain both a large army & a large fleet.
The Gordian Knot....a world wonder to be captured in the city of Gordium.
Darius three peace offers....the Persian AI will handle these as they begin to lose cities.
The Oracle of Ammon in Siwah....another world wonder to be captured.
The Spartan Uprising....the Lacaedomonians start as neutrals, but they might not stay that way.
The Death of Darius....when the Persians enter a new era, they get a new leaderhead.
Persian Mounted Javelinmen....Alexander can always build these, but they require the Persia resource.
Death of Bucephalas....all new cities are called Alexandria except one; Bucephala.
(Alexander may have killed, executed and massacred hundreds of thousands of people....but at least he was nice to his horse. )
Macedonian Mutiny....a world wonder that makes ALL other wonders obsolete (causing widespread unhappiness).
The Gedrosian Desert.... some units may die if you march through a Sandy Desert (the jungle disease effect).
Death of Alexander....obviously, then end of the scenario (after some 156 monthly turns).
Events Tied to the Tech Tree
-----------------------------
The following DO require entries in the tech tree:-
The Founding of Alexandria(s)....only the Macedonians can have settlers, but they must research to get them.
Allies are Dismissed....some units become obsolete and are replaced by a unit upgrade.
The Persian Successors....again, a new unit type becomes available to the Macedonians.
Persian Cardaces....a new peltast type unit for the Persians, available about 334BC.
Scythe Chariots....available to the Persians about 331BC.
Plus several new stronger Egyptian units, available half way down the tech tree (if Alexander conquers Egypt early in the scenario, then these will never be built).
Ive decided not to bother upgrading the Hypaspists to Argyraspids (their hit points would go down), and Sparta was in decline, so the only Spartan Hoplites they have are those at the start (no more can be built....they build Perioikoi Hoplites instead).
City Improvements and Buildings
---------------------------------
Now then, what to we do about these?
Well, they obviously need to be entries on the tech tree, but trying to link them with events is difficult, and doesnt seem right.
After all, there were NO new inventions during Alexanders short 13 year reign; all those re-named city buildings in that list posted at the top of page three of this thread had existed for many centuries long before young Alexander was a gleam in old Philips eye!
Soooo ..how about this:-
Instead of a Tech Tree, we have a PETITION TREE.
You as leader receive petitions/requests/appeals/entreaties/applications/pleas....
....and as benefactor/sponsor/patron/supporter/backer....
....you give grants/awards/gifts/bequests/charters/allowances.
So each new item on the tree is not being invented, its just that you have decided to lend your support and permission for that item to be built (be it for the good of the citizens, or the philosophers, or the merchants, or the military).
A ruler may wish to encourage intellectual thought and the arts for example, but he would still have to create the right kind of atmosphere to encourage all the philosophers, poets and sculptors to come to his kingdom....that is what researching the Petition Tree represents.
Here are some possible examples:-
(Please feel free to make any changes; these are only suggestions)
Foreign Entrepreneurs allows Furnaces? (Coal Plants), or Smithies? (Factories), or Water Mills? (Hydro Plants)....
New Coinage Issued allows City Treasuries? (Banks), or Provincial Mints? (Stock Exchanges)....
New Governors Appointed allows Petition Houses? (Court Houses), or Guard Houses? (Police Stations)....
Patron of the Arts allows Amphitheatres? (Colosseums), or Philosophical Arenas? (Research Labs), or Heroic Eulogies? (Epics)....
Encouraging Trade allows Market Places? (name unchanged), or Warehouses? (Commercial Docks)....
The King becomes Ill allows Apothecaries? (Hospitals), or Military Physicians? (Battlefield Medicine)....
Appeasing the Gods allows Shrines? (Temples), or Temple Complexes? (Cathedrals)....
Sponsoring Learning allows Schools? (Libraries), or Academies? (Universities)....
Support for the Army allows Armouries? (Civil Defence), or Military Discipline & Tactics? (Military Academy & Pentagon)....
And so on.
What do you think?
But first, here is a quick broad outline of the HISTORICAL events....
(Things in the scenario will obviously depend upon how it is played)
Historical Events
----------------
336BC = Darius & Alexander both become Kings, Alexander made Captain-General of the Corinthian League, rebellion lead by Khababasha of Ethiopia in Egypt.
335BC = Alexanders Thracian & Illyrian campaigns, the sacking of Thebes, Darius re-conquers Egypt.
334BC = Battle of Granicus, siege of Miletus, Alexander disbands his fleet, siege Halicarnassus, plot against Alexander foiled.
333BC = Death of Memnon, the Gordian Knot, Alexander becomes ill, the battle of Issus, capture of Darius family, Darius 1st peace offer.
332BC = Siege of Tyre, Darius 2nd peace offer, siege of Gaza, Alexander enters Egypt and becomes Pharaoh. (Ariarathes, satrap of Cappadocia, invades Asia Minor, but is defeated by Antigonus)
331BC = Visit to the Oracle of Ammon at Siwah, foundation of Alexandria-on-the-Nile (the first of many Alexandrias), Darius final peace offer rejected, battle of Gaugamela, capture of Babylon, Antipater suppresses a Spartan uprising at the battle of Megalopolis, battle of the Susian Gates.
---------------------------
330BC = Sacking of Persepolis, Greek allies dismissed, Darius murdered and Bessus becomes Great King, Alexander starts using Persian Mounted Javelinmen, Conspiracy of Philotas and execution of Parmenio. (Alexander begins to adopt Persian dress and customs)
329BC = Thessalians dismissed, the Bactrian campaign, capture and death of Bessus, revolt of Spitamenes the satrap of Sogdiana
---------------------------
328BC = The Sogdiana campaign, Alexander kills Cleitus the Black in a drunken rage, defeat and death of Spitamenes.
327BC = Capture of the Soghdian Rock, Alexander marries Roxane, recruitment of 30,000 Persian Successors, the Pages Conspiracy, start of the Indian campaign.
326BC = Battle of Hydaspes against Porus, death of Alexanders horse Bucephalas (ahhh), the MACEDONIAN MUTINY at the Hyphasis river, campaign against the Brahmin cities of the lower Indus.
325BC = The building of the Indian Ocean fleet, march through the Gedrosian Desert, desertion of the treasurer Harpalus.
324BC = Alexander returns to Persepolis, the Susa mass-marriages, death of Alexanders friend Hephaestion, another Macedonian Mutiny at Opis, reorganisation of the empire....
* Persians & Macedonians receive equal rights
* Military & civilian powers separated in the satrapies
* A unified currency is established (based on silver, with Attic/Greek measurements)
* Greek & Persian exiles are pardoned and encouraged to return.
* Alexander adopts full Persian court ceremony, dress and titles, and is also deified.
323BC = Alexander, now a deeply superstitious semi alcoholic, falls ill in Babylon and dies in June.
As you can see, I have split the above chart into three eras: the Darius period, the Bessus period, and the Spitamenes period (so 3 different leaderheads for the Persians).
Id like to do the same for Alexander: a Macedonian Alexander, a half Persian Alexander, and a full Persian God-like Alexander.
Events Tied to the Map
-----------------------
Now many of the above events can be tied into actions on the map, and dont require linking with the tech tree (all battles & sieges for example).
Other examples:-
Alexander disbands his fleet....we limit his income at the start, so he cant afford to maintain both a large army & a large fleet.
The Gordian Knot....a world wonder to be captured in the city of Gordium.
Darius three peace offers....the Persian AI will handle these as they begin to lose cities.
The Oracle of Ammon in Siwah....another world wonder to be captured.
The Spartan Uprising....the Lacaedomonians start as neutrals, but they might not stay that way.
The Death of Darius....when the Persians enter a new era, they get a new leaderhead.
Persian Mounted Javelinmen....Alexander can always build these, but they require the Persia resource.
Death of Bucephalas....all new cities are called Alexandria except one; Bucephala.
(Alexander may have killed, executed and massacred hundreds of thousands of people....but at least he was nice to his horse.
)Macedonian Mutiny....a world wonder that makes ALL other wonders obsolete (causing widespread unhappiness).
The Gedrosian Desert.... some units may die if you march through a Sandy Desert (the jungle disease effect).
Death of Alexander....obviously, then end of the scenario (after some 156 monthly turns).
Events Tied to the Tech Tree
-----------------------------
The following DO require entries in the tech tree:-
The Founding of Alexandria(s)....only the Macedonians can have settlers, but they must research to get them.
Allies are Dismissed....some units become obsolete and are replaced by a unit upgrade.
The Persian Successors....again, a new unit type becomes available to the Macedonians.
Persian Cardaces....a new peltast type unit for the Persians, available about 334BC.
Scythe Chariots....available to the Persians about 331BC.
Plus several new stronger Egyptian units, available half way down the tech tree (if Alexander conquers Egypt early in the scenario, then these will never be built).
Ive decided not to bother upgrading the Hypaspists to Argyraspids (their hit points would go down), and Sparta was in decline, so the only Spartan Hoplites they have are those at the start (no more can be built....they build Perioikoi Hoplites instead).
City Improvements and Buildings
---------------------------------
Now then, what to we do about these?
Well, they obviously need to be entries on the tech tree, but trying to link them with events is difficult, and doesnt seem right.
After all, there were NO new inventions during Alexanders short 13 year reign; all those re-named city buildings in that list posted at the top of page three of this thread had existed for many centuries long before young Alexander was a gleam in old Philips eye!
Soooo ..how about this:-
Instead of a Tech Tree, we have a PETITION TREE.
You as leader receive petitions/requests/appeals/entreaties/applications/pleas....
....and as benefactor/sponsor/patron/supporter/backer....
....you give grants/awards/gifts/bequests/charters/allowances.
So each new item on the tree is not being invented, its just that you have decided to lend your support and permission for that item to be built (be it for the good of the citizens, or the philosophers, or the merchants, or the military).
A ruler may wish to encourage intellectual thought and the arts for example, but he would still have to create the right kind of atmosphere to encourage all the philosophers, poets and sculptors to come to his kingdom....that is what researching the Petition Tree represents.
Here are some possible examples:-
(Please feel free to make any changes; these are only suggestions)
Foreign Entrepreneurs allows Furnaces? (Coal Plants), or Smithies? (Factories), or Water Mills? (Hydro Plants)....
New Coinage Issued allows City Treasuries? (Banks), or Provincial Mints? (Stock Exchanges)....
New Governors Appointed allows Petition Houses? (Court Houses), or Guard Houses? (Police Stations)....
Patron of the Arts allows Amphitheatres? (Colosseums), or Philosophical Arenas? (Research Labs), or Heroic Eulogies? (Epics)....
Encouraging Trade allows Market Places? (name unchanged), or Warehouses? (Commercial Docks)....
The King becomes Ill allows Apothecaries? (Hospitals), or Military Physicians? (Battlefield Medicine)....
Appeasing the Gods allows Shrines? (Temples), or Temple Complexes? (Cathedrals)....
Sponsoring Learning allows Schools? (Libraries), or Academies? (Universities)....
Support for the Army allows Armouries? (Civil Defence), or Military Discipline & Tactics? (Military Academy & Pentagon)....
And so on.
What do you think?
Well, I think good.Originally posted by Kryten
...
Macedonian Mutiny....a world wonder that makes ALL other wonders obsolete (causing widespread unhappiness).
The Gedrosian Desert.... some units may die if you march through a Sandy Desert (the jungle disease effect).
...What do you think?
How do you force anyone to build the Macedonian Mutiny? Have it cost 0 or something?
Units only die in a jungle if they are fortified there, if I remember things correctly. So you'd have to do something else to make the soldiers die in the desert. What about making a line across the desert of immoble invisible barbarians? Alexanders troops would the suddenly attack these and loose health points, or even die. The only thing is that you would see these barbarians health bars.
Maybe if you made a unit graphic which looks exactly like the desert, and is so big that it covers the health bar. I might have seen this before, that one unit covers the health bar of another. Maybe it would be possible to make the line so that they covers each other, so that only one health bar would be visible? "Men, I want you to go up there and take that sand dune!"
I don't think we/you should include too many factories/coal plants and such, they might overbalance things too much.
And maybe the Macedonians should be militaristic, to up the chance for leaders, which might be used to build a new palace and/or forbidden palace.
realn
Chieftain
Wow. This is wonderful. I am so glad this is being worked on again. I am so out of touch from CFC. I will still be the webmaster though. I have moved on to other games like AoC and AoM but I will still join your guys' discussion about this. I also have grown in talent in Web design much more and can be very quick on updating the site and stuff. I will also try to add in a database so Kryten (or some other leader) can update the front page with News.
PS: These forums are by far the best for us. As soon as we went to any other forum we became more and more out of touch. Coming back here already proves to be the best place. So all discussion will be posted on this forum and all final work will be posted on the Other forum. The website will be updated according to what emails are sent to me and/or what is on the other main forum.
Realn
PS: These forums are by far the best for us. As soon as we went to any other forum we became more and more out of touch. Coming back here already proves to be the best place. So all discussion will be posted on this forum and all final work will be posted on the Other forum. The website will be updated according to what emails are sent to me and/or what is on the other main forum.
Realn
OmniMower
Codename Synrise
Is the link to the Alex Terrains broken, or is it just me???
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
No, it's my fault.
I called the link Alex_terrain when I should have called it Alex_Terrain.
It has now been corrected. Sorry about that.
To realn,
Hello matey.
Sorry for not keeping in contact, but you know what it's like....busybusybusy....
To Cimbri,
And hello to you too.
Yes please, we will need alternative names for almost ALL the WW's available in Civ3....'modern' ones included (ESPECIALLY happiness wonders).
I'll make a start with some examples in a later post.
The reason they are required is because of the 'Macedonian Mutiny', as explained below in answer to mrtn.
To mrtn,
Yes, you are quite right about only FORTIFIED units dying in a 'Sandy Desert' (formally Jungle) tile.
Shame.
And your idea about 'invisable units' being placed in deserts is a good one....but not really practical I'm afraid, for the following reasons:-
* it would look odd having units attacking nothing, and with combat sounds
* units may GAIN hit points for defeating one of these invisible units
* I have tried, but I can't find a way of hiding their health bars
* the AI hates barbarians, and would divert units from the main theatre of war to eliminate them
So it may be best to just leave things as they are, with only fortified units risking death in a desert.
Factories, Coal Plants & Manufacturing Plants
----------------------------------------------
You may be right about these overbalancing the game.
We will have to see when playtesting (we can always 'tweak' things later).
I wanted to include them (renamed as Smithys, Furances & Workshops) for two reasons.
First, as a counter to corruption, so distant cities can still build things.
Second, to actually generate 'Debris & Waste' (formally called Pollution).
Now I know that most people hate pollution in a game, but the fact is....'Peasants & Slaves' (formally called Workers & captured Workers) won't have much to do in the scenario.
Roads will be limited to 'Dirt Tracks', mines will only be built on hills, trees cannot be cut down, and all cities already start with a few irrigated tiles near them, except the Scythians of course. (Remember that all the cities on the map have been in existance for many centuries long before Alexander came along)
Sooooo.....
Game play reason = to give the Peasants & Slaves something to do.
Historical reason = someone had to keep these ancient cities clean, or they would have been buried in their own rubbish!
The Macedonian Mutiny
--------------------
As we all know, the only thing that stopped young Alex from conquering the whole world was his own Macedonian troops.
How can we 'simulate' their refusal to go on?
Well, here's the plan:-
Each province/satrap is 'economically isolated' from it's neighbours (by restricting the road network), so luxurys cannot be exported out of their region.
In addition, the Macedonians will suffer heavyly from 'war weariness'.
So what Alexander must do is to capture as many of the already existing happiness wonders dotted across the Persian Empire in order to offset the growing unhappiness of his citizens.
But one day, one of the other nations will research the 'Growing Disaffection' tech, which allows the 'Macedonian Mutiny' wonder (only costing a few shields to be built).
The effect of this wonder is to make ALL other wonders obsolete!
Suddenly, Alex finds massive unhappiness, civil unrest and rebellions (i.e 'meltdowns') breaking out across his newly conquered empire.
He now has three choices:-
* up the luxuruy rate, if he can afford it, and cease research (giving him a low endgame score)
* create lots of entertainers, and let the cities starve and grow smaller (giving him a low endgame score)
* bring his army home and use them as miltary police to quell the disaffection (giving him a HIGH endgame score)
So we need lots of happiness and economic wonders on the map at the start.
Originally posted by Kryten
And hello to you too.
Yes please, we will need alternative names for almost ALL the WW's available in Civ3....'modern' ones included (ESPECIALLY happiness wonders).
I'll make a start with some examples in a later post.
The reason they are required is because of the 'Macedonian Mutiny', as explained below in answer to mrtn.
Roger that Sir Kryten. I'll keep an eye on this thread, and you can always PM any requests.
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
Originally posted by PCHighway
I was working on the buildings graphics, I am wondering if you want a city-aerial view graphics also? Do you wish me to compile Civ3 graphics to make the buildings? It is hard finding free models to use
Yes please matey.
The existing Civ3 buildings are ideal, with a few alternations where neccessary of course.
I hope you don't mind, but I've made a quick example, using the city-aerial view building for all the pictures and icons, with the exception of the 'tech' picture.
As you can see, I have forgotten to change the civilopeadia text file, so it is still called 'Alphabet', and please ignor the upgrade lines....
....this is only a quick example after all.
Hetairoi22 has made a start with the tech/events/petitions tree, which is still in it's early days but is comming along, which I would like to show in a later post so that everyone can comment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's something that might interest you all.
I rescently recieved a PM from Exanguination.
I hope he doesn't mind if I post it here for all to see.....
Yoda Power
✫✫✫✫✫✫✫
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
- Messages
- 13,870
since you cant have these invisible units, why not just use Tundra? Remeber you can have tundra next to junlge so that would actually be possible, then you could just make them impassible.
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
Ah Yoda, but we can already make jungle/sand dunes impassable, if we wanted to, so there is no need for tundra.
But that wouldn't give us the right effect, which is that Alexander did march through the Gedrosian Desert, and lost men while doing so.
So I think the best solution is to have 'Sandy Desert' cost 2 move points (except for camels), and run the admittedly slight risk that a unit can be lost if fortified.
It's not quite perfect....but we have to work within the limitations of the editor.
But that wouldn't give us the right effect, which is that Alexander did march through the Gedrosian Desert, and lost men while doing so.
So I think the best solution is to have 'Sandy Desert' cost 2 move points (except for camels), and run the admittedly slight risk that a unit can be lost if fortified.
It's not quite perfect....but we have to work within the limitations of the editor.
realn
Chieftain
Good work guys. Seems you are trying to work on some finishing touches. We are gettings closer and closer every day.
Anyway, the site is going to take a few more weeks. I need to organize alot of things.
Realn
Anyway, the site is going to take a few more weeks. I need to organize alot of things.
Realn
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
Here are my thoughts and suggestions about World Wonders and their uses in the scenario.
Lets look at the three different types of WW that Civ3 has to offer (not all of these are required, and many of those that are will need new names).
First there are the happiness wonders, that directly affect the citizens mood:-
Oracle, Hanging Gardens, Shakespeare, J.S. Bach, Sistine Chapel, Universal Suffrage, Cure for Cancer.
Then there are the ones that INdirectly affect happiness:-
(no building maintenance -> more income -> higher luxury tax rate = more happiness)
Colossus, Pyramids, Sun Tzu, Adam Smith, Hoover Dam, The Internet.
Lastly, there are those WWs that have other specific effects:-
More Science: Great Library, Copernicus, Newton, Evolution, SETI Program.
Better Military: Great Wall, Lighthouse, Magellan, Leonardo, Manhattan Project.
Miscellaneous Effects: United Nations & Longevity.
Of course, we are not simply confined to the above effects. With the editor, we can pick-&-mix any of the various effects in any way we want (Im sure we have all thought about changing the Great Wall so that it allows a City Wall in every town for example).
Still, the existing Civ3 WWs do give us a point to start from .and a convenient title that we are all used to.
The Real Wonders Of The World
---------------------------
As we all know, these are:-
The Pyramids in Egypt, The Hanging Gardens of Babylon, The Colossus of Rhodes, The Pharos (i.e. lighthouse) of Alexandria, The Statue of Zeus at Olympia in Greece, The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus in Asia Minor, and The Mausoleum of Halicarnassus also in Asia Minor (curiously, the last 3 never made it into Civ3).
Now all these are purely subjective choices by the ancient scholars. Civ3 also includes .quite rightly I think .the great Wall of China, the Oracle (of Delphi?) and the Library of Alexandria.
Well .we too can be subjective, and add anything we think was unusual or marvellous in order to make the scenario work correctly.
Also, all the real wonders of the ancient world, with possibly the exception of the Lighthouse, are nothing more than big stone tourist attractions that gave no actual special powers to the civilization that built or owned them.
What Wonders Will Be Built In the Scenario?
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Probably very few actually. Most will already be scattered across the map.
I would like the Lighthouse and the Great Library to be built in the new city of Alexandria-on the-Nile for historical reasons, by making these two only available to the Macedonians at the start and both requiring a coastal location with the Egypt regional resource (I know that the Library was built by Ptolemy after Alexanders death....but Alex did lay out the foundations of Alexandria, and he was interested in knowledge and science, so maybe he died before he could complete it).
Then there is the all important Macedonian Mutiny, which any civ can build.
Can anyone think of anything else that needs to be built during the game?
(Maybe a Magnificent Funeral wonder perhaps? The arrangements and funeral pyre for Alexanders chum Hephaestion was by all accounts a lavish affair....although I was not invited)
Where Will These Wonders Be?
---------------------------
I think that it might be a good idea NOT to have ANY wonders in the following regions:-
The Corinthian League (i.e. Greece), Lacedaemonia (i.e.the Peloponnese), Scythia, India and Arabia.
This is to discourage players and the AI from invading these backwater regions (oh, they may still be invaded....but there is nothing essential there, such as wonders and victory point locations).
I would like a wonder of some sort to be in Tyre, as well as a victory point location, to make the place worth a 7 months siege (the Temple of Melcarth or Baal perhaps?).
Id also like one at the Swiah Oasis west of the Nile (The Oracle of Ammon).
And because Macedon is only a small country, it may be necessary to give Alexander a bit of an economic boost at the start of the scenario. This can be done by giving him a golden age, and also the Hegemon of Hellas wonder (a renamed Colossus), to reflect his role as the Captain-General of the Corinthian League (it IS a wonder that all the different rival Greek city-states managed to put aside all their petty squabbling and work towards a single political goal.....but after the Battle of Chaeronea, they didnt really have much of a choice did they! )
Soooo....using all the above as a guideline, can anyone suggest what wonders we should have, their locations, and their effects?
Lets look at the three different types of WW that Civ3 has to offer (not all of these are required, and many of those that are will need new names).
First there are the happiness wonders, that directly affect the citizens mood:-
Oracle, Hanging Gardens, Shakespeare, J.S. Bach, Sistine Chapel, Universal Suffrage, Cure for Cancer.
Then there are the ones that INdirectly affect happiness:-
(no building maintenance -> more income -> higher luxury tax rate = more happiness)
Colossus, Pyramids, Sun Tzu, Adam Smith, Hoover Dam, The Internet.
Lastly, there are those WWs that have other specific effects:-
More Science: Great Library, Copernicus, Newton, Evolution, SETI Program.
Better Military: Great Wall, Lighthouse, Magellan, Leonardo, Manhattan Project.
Miscellaneous Effects: United Nations & Longevity.
Of course, we are not simply confined to the above effects. With the editor, we can pick-&-mix any of the various effects in any way we want (Im sure we have all thought about changing the Great Wall so that it allows a City Wall in every town for example).
Still, the existing Civ3 WWs do give us a point to start from .and a convenient title that we are all used to.
The Real Wonders Of The World
---------------------------
As we all know, these are:-
The Pyramids in Egypt, The Hanging Gardens of Babylon, The Colossus of Rhodes, The Pharos (i.e. lighthouse) of Alexandria, The Statue of Zeus at Olympia in Greece, The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus in Asia Minor, and The Mausoleum of Halicarnassus also in Asia Minor (curiously, the last 3 never made it into Civ3).
Now all these are purely subjective choices by the ancient scholars. Civ3 also includes .quite rightly I think .the great Wall of China, the Oracle (of Delphi?) and the Library of Alexandria.
Well .we too can be subjective, and add anything we think was unusual or marvellous in order to make the scenario work correctly.
Also, all the real wonders of the ancient world, with possibly the exception of the Lighthouse, are nothing more than big stone tourist attractions that gave no actual special powers to the civilization that built or owned them.
What Wonders Will Be Built In the Scenario?
------------------------------------
Probably very few actually. Most will already be scattered across the map.
I would like the Lighthouse and the Great Library to be built in the new city of Alexandria-on the-Nile for historical reasons, by making these two only available to the Macedonians at the start and both requiring a coastal location with the Egypt regional resource (I know that the Library was built by Ptolemy after Alexanders death....but Alex did lay out the foundations of Alexandria, and he was interested in knowledge and science, so maybe he died before he could complete it).
Then there is the all important Macedonian Mutiny, which any civ can build.
Can anyone think of anything else that needs to be built during the game?
(Maybe a Magnificent Funeral wonder perhaps? The arrangements and funeral pyre for Alexanders chum Hephaestion was by all accounts a lavish affair....although I was not invited)
Where Will These Wonders Be?
---------------------------
I think that it might be a good idea NOT to have ANY wonders in the following regions:-
The Corinthian League (i.e. Greece), Lacedaemonia (i.e.the Peloponnese), Scythia, India and Arabia.
This is to discourage players and the AI from invading these backwater regions (oh, they may still be invaded....but there is nothing essential there, such as wonders and victory point locations).
I would like a wonder of some sort to be in Tyre, as well as a victory point location, to make the place worth a 7 months siege (the Temple of Melcarth or Baal perhaps?).
Id also like one at the Swiah Oasis west of the Nile (The Oracle of Ammon).
And because Macedon is only a small country, it may be necessary to give Alexander a bit of an economic boost at the start of the scenario. This can be done by giving him a golden age, and also the Hegemon of Hellas wonder (a renamed Colossus), to reflect his role as the Captain-General of the Corinthian League (it IS a wonder that all the different rival Greek city-states managed to put aside all their petty squabbling and work towards a single political goal.....but after the Battle of Chaeronea, they didnt really have much of a choice did they!
)Soooo....using all the above as a guideline, can anyone suggest what wonders we should have, their locations, and their effects?
hetairoi22
Of the House of Eorl
Here's a few ideas for you...
Persepolis
The magnificent palace complex at Persepolis was founded by Darius the Great around 518 B.C., although more than a century passed before it was finally completed. Conceived to be the seat of government for the Achaemenian kings and a center for receptions and ceremonial festivities, the wealth of the Persian empire was evident in all aspects of its construction. The splendor of Persepolis, however, was short-lived; the palaces were looted and burned by Alexander the Great in 331-330 B.C. The ruins were not excavated until the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago sponsored an archaeological expedition to Persepolis and its environs under the supervision of Professor Ernst Herzfeld from 1931 to 1934, and Erich F. Schmidt from 1934 to 1939.
http://www-oi.uchicago.edu/OI/MUS/PA/IRAN/PAAI/PAAI_Persepolis.html
Benefits: Culture, happiness
Susa
The archaeological site, identified in 1850 by W.K. Loftus, consists of four mounds. One held the citadel and was excavated (18971908) by Jacques de Morgan, who uncovered, among other objects, the obelisk of the Akkadian king Manishtusu, the stele of his successor Naram-Sin, and the code of Hammurabi of Babylon. A second mound to the east was the location of the palace of Darius I and was excavated (c. 1881) by Marcel Dieulafoy . A third mound to the south contained the royal Elamite city, while the fourth mound consisted of the poorer houses.
Encyclopedia Britannica
Benefits: Less corruption, more happiness
Babylon
The Hanging Gardens (Happiness)
The Ishtar Gate (Defense [representing the great city walls], culture)
Tyre
Some kind of great commercial harbour, to represent the citys great commercial infuence in the Mediterranean?
Persepolis
The magnificent palace complex at Persepolis was founded by Darius the Great around 518 B.C., although more than a century passed before it was finally completed. Conceived to be the seat of government for the Achaemenian kings and a center for receptions and ceremonial festivities, the wealth of the Persian empire was evident in all aspects of its construction. The splendor of Persepolis, however, was short-lived; the palaces were looted and burned by Alexander the Great in 331-330 B.C. The ruins were not excavated until the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago sponsored an archaeological expedition to Persepolis and its environs under the supervision of Professor Ernst Herzfeld from 1931 to 1934, and Erich F. Schmidt from 1934 to 1939.
http://www-oi.uchicago.edu/OI/MUS/PA/IRAN/PAAI/PAAI_Persepolis.html
Benefits: Culture, happiness
Susa
The archaeological site, identified in 1850 by W.K. Loftus, consists of four mounds. One held the citadel and was excavated (18971908) by Jacques de Morgan, who uncovered, among other objects, the obelisk of the Akkadian king Manishtusu, the stele of his successor Naram-Sin, and the code of Hammurabi of Babylon. A second mound to the east was the location of the palace of Darius I and was excavated (c. 1881) by Marcel Dieulafoy . A third mound to the south contained the royal Elamite city, while the fourth mound consisted of the poorer houses.
Encyclopedia Britannica
Benefits: Less corruption, more happiness
Babylon
The Hanging Gardens (Happiness)
The Ishtar Gate (Defense [representing the great city walls], culture)
Tyre
Some kind of great commercial harbour, to represent the citys great commercial infuence in the Mediterranean?
LouLong
In love with Rei Ayanami
Map (far from complete).
Basically Greece and Western/central Turkey + Kreta, Rhodes (not happy with it yet) and parts of North Africa modified.
Kryten, I did not forget you
Of course I focus only on real terrains at the moment. Terrains for rules will come afterwards.
Is it OK that way ?
Basically Greece and Western/central Turkey + Kreta, Rhodes (not happy with it yet) and parts of North Africa modified.
Kryten, I did not forget you
Of course I focus only on real terrains at the moment. Terrains for rules will come afterwards.
Is it OK that way ?
Hi Lou, some thoughts on the map.
Should there be more forests in Greece. Was they all really cut down at that time?
Shouldn't the middle of the Aral- and Caspian Seas be sea, not Ocean?
Should the Amu Darja and the Syr Darja be flood plains all the way, or maybe just plains in some places?
There is some tundra up in the Himalayas, why? Do they signify glaciers, or?
There is a lake between the Nile and Sinai? Whut?
Shouldn't the Takla Makan be a vast desert? You have it as forested grassland. (I don't really know how it was 2000 years ago, so I might be wrong.)
Otherwise it's looking mighty fine!
Should there be more forests in Greece. Was they all really cut down at that time?
Shouldn't the middle of the Aral- and Caspian Seas be sea, not Ocean?
Should the Amu Darja and the Syr Darja be flood plains all the way, or maybe just plains in some places?
There is some tundra up in the Himalayas, why? Do they signify glaciers, or?
There is a lake between the Nile and Sinai? Whut?
Shouldn't the Takla Makan be a vast desert? You have it as forested grassland. (I don't really know how it was 2000 years ago, so I might be wrong.)
Otherwise it's looking mighty fine!
