Altered Maps V: The Molotov-Threadentropp Pact

[TheLastOne36]

World Population densities in 1918:

 

[Mathalamus]

Spoiler :

the Byzantine Republic

( note all colonies are actually dominions, yes i ripped of the UK right there)

its back story is quite long ( ill put that into spoiler tags)

i apologize for a myriad of errors here.. and some things are rather implausible.

Spoiler :

the history of the Byzantine Republic.

this history is not real, but rather based on an alternate time line. The time line i will be documenting is from the formation of the Eastern Roman Empire (330) to now (2009)

330: Constantane the Great founds Constantinople on Byzantium.

476: the western Roman Empire falls. many of the roman elite escapes to the (now renamed) Byzantine Empire.

525: Justinian I decide not to retake the Roman lands. this results in a smaller more defendable space.

600: persia declares war, but is resoundedly defeated by the Byzantine Empire. the Empire controls the Iraqi reigon.

632: Islam is founded. Arab armies attempt to overrun the Byzantine Emprie and Sassinaid Empire.

636 *turning point*: Battle of Yarmouk: 500,000 Byzantine soliders utterly destroy the islamic army of 60,000, and kills most of the generals. Khalid ibn al-Walid has been captured, promptly converts to Christianity upon seeing Constantinople, and fights for Byzantium.

650: the Islamic empire fails to capture egypt.

662: the Byzantines successfully defend Baghad from the Arabs.

675: the Sassinaid Empire Declares war on the Byzantine Empire and Arabia. It is quickly destroyed.

814: the Byzantines seige the Islamic capital, Mecca, only to fail. they retreat back to Baghad

900: Constantinople is rumored to have founded gunpowder. the Emperors refused to comment.

1000: the venetian Republic is formed. it will eventually rule all of italy that isnt Byzantine.

1025: the Byzantine Empire Attacks and destroys Romania and Hungary.

1071: Battle of Manzikert: the Byzantine Empire wins the defense agansit the Sejuik Turks, but make no agressive movement.

1096: First Crusade. the Cruasaders (consisting of 200,000 soliders of various origions) cross the Arabian border and start razing and killing every person they come across, and defeating the main army. the Byzantine Empire is shocked and outraged over this evil actions and managed to scramble 100,000 Byzantine soliders, crossed the Arabian peninsula and began evacuating muslims from the areas they came across statign that the crusaders are gonna kill them all. the leader, Saladin agreed and managed to evacuate nearly everyone, but not in time

1098: Battle of Mecca: Byzantine and muslim forces Fight the crusaders whilist an evacuation is taking place. the Byzantine-Muslim forces fight, but the Cruaders were more neumerous. Mecca is captured and burned to the Ground. 135,000 defenders are killed. the rest of the Crusaders razed the rest of the Arabian penensula shortly after. Islam survives, but barely.. Arabia is never the same.

1220: the Byzantine Empire, is aware of the Mongol Empire and sent envoys to bribe the mongols into an alliance. the alliance was accepted.

1299: the Ottomans under Osman I declares independence from the Byzantine Empire and manages to take some parts of Anatolia (from Nicaea to Konya). the Byzantine Empire was aware of this uprising for some time.

1303: the Ottoman Empire reaches its height, from Konya to Nicaea.

1312: the Ottoman Empire was Destroyed at the battle of Sogut, 150,000 Ottoman Soldiers were killed by the combined Byzantine Mongol armies. the Turkish culture is destroyed as a result.

1315: several citys are renamed to their turkish modern names out of respect for the fallen turks.

1352: the Byzantine Empire conquers Crete and Cyprus. Italy (up to Rome) is conquered a year later.

May 2nd, 1374: Great Slave Revolt: the slaves of all major cities revolt agansit the Government, in most cases the Revolt is taken down, but Constantinople, tthe city with the highest slave population has taken control of the city and proclaimed the Free Slave Republic.

feburary 10th 1375: after 9 months of bitter seige, Constantinople is retaken and Rebuilt, The Emperor, knowing that he cannot control the remaining slaves forever, promised to reform the laws.

1385: the Country changed from an absolute Monarchy to a Democratic Government under Constitutional Monarchy. Slavery is banned, all rights were given to everyone, free market is adopted, free speech is promised, and free religion is praticed. the people welcome the change. gradually standard of living rose for everyone, and the Byzantine Republic is the worlds richest country, and also the words strongest military, a title which it will forever hold. the population grows slowly as new technologies are invented.

1395: Southern Crimea is Conquered by the Byzantine Empire.

1408: Alexander Barabas Discovers America almost 100 years earlier than the other european powers, coloization efforts were underway.

1453: the height of the Byzantine Empire (in the mainland)

1500: the Byzantine states of America is established. it would be the most populus Byzantine colony. Colonies are established in the caribean, south america, eastern and south africa, somolia,and Vietnam. the Byzantine Republic wages war agansit Japan, korea, india and indonesia, they win all these war and claim some of their land, and cleansed it of native peoples and brought Byzantine settlers to take their place. height of the Byzantine Empire world wide. ( note: the Geneva conventions weren't made back then)

1595: Byzantium invades england and installs a much more friendly (in general) government known as Charismatica.

1714: Industrial Revolution started in the Byzantine Empire. it gets fully industrialized (and will remain so) in just 50 years. the Byzantines refused to trade the Technologies.

1800: The Oylmpic is launched. it will serve many roles in peace time and war time for 2 centuries, as a military run merchant ship. it is still serving today. it is the flagship of the Byzantine Republic.

1803 to 1815: Napoleon Wars. the Byzantine Republic sides with the British Empire to fight the French dominance over Europe. the Oylmpic is converted to a destroyer, and personally sinks many french ships and took part in fleet actions.

June 18 1815: Battle of the Waterloo ends with French Defeat. in the Napoleon Wars, the Byzantines Contributed almost 500,000 soldiers to fight and destroy Napoleon France.

1845: American revolution. Americans Revolt and eventually overthrow their Byzantine Masters. a peace treaty was settled giving america independence.

1850: Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, and Albania Violently Declares independence and gains it in a short order. 80,000 lives were lost in the Conflict. the Olympic is badly damaged by Bulgar nationalists, and had to be repaired in Drydock for a year.

1890: Egypt peacefully decares independence.

april 15th 1914: Titanic strikes an iceburg and sinks, but the Byzantine Cruise ship Oylmpic rescues 706 survivors from the icy waters. it is highly commended.

1914: World War one. the emperor of the Byzantine Republic was assassinated By Austria Hungary. the Byzantine Republic declares war and soon a chain reaction happened.

1914-1916: the Byzantine Republic Conquers the former Byzanine lands in a short order and makes quick work of the so called "tough" Austrian forces.

1918: Germany surrenders, Treaty of Constantinople, Germany loses land, industry and imposes severe restrictions on military, Byzantine Emperor Barabas I condemned the treaty, saying that this is 21 years of peace.

1929: the Stock market Crash badly Affected the World Economy including the Byzantine Republic. it manages to defeat national socialist and Communist Rebels in a short order. Dispite the fact that the Oylmpic is aging, the Emperor Deciced that it be a permadent ship of the fleet. the Olympic is pratically rebuilt at great cost, and the Emperor himself covered the cost of rebuilding and operating losses.

1933: national Socialism wins in Germany, and Hitler rises to power, and becomes extremely warlike, secretly the the Byzantine Republic built up its own Army for a possible war. Venice turned Facist under Moussunli

September 1 1939: World war two starts with the invasion of Poland. the Byzantine Republic Republic declares neutrality, but secretly tells winston churchill, roosevelt, and Stalin, that they will *not* stay neutral. they plan to attack sometime in 1943. the Byzantine Republic offers to host several war stragety confrences. all were accepted.

May 10 1940: the German Invasion of France succeeds, and many Byzantine ships in the area rescues the survivors from their doom at dunkirk. virtually everyone was rescued. hitler is later known to be highly suspicious at Byzantine ship numbers in the area...

April 6 1941: the Veneitian Empire tried to Invade the Byzantine Republic at Rome. it is eaily broken up with few Byzantine casulties, then the Byzantine Army starts conquering Venice in response, mossunli screams (literally) for help, paniced at the strong Byzantine Forces.

may 20th: three army groups attack the Republic, quickly capturing Rome, but resistance stiffens.

June 21st 1941: Germany invades the Soviet Union, the Soviet union try to fight back.

august 10th 1941: the three army group meet up oputside adrainople. army group center attacks the city outright, while the 2 others attempt to encircle it, the fighting was intense.

October 30th: battle of Sevastopol. the Byzantine stronghold fell quickly to attacking German forces.

December 7th 1941. the Japanese Empire attack Pearl Harbour. United states and Byzantine Fleets were seriously damaged. the Byzantine Republic Declares war on Japan., unfortunately it makes little difference there. the Oylmpic, enraged at this sneak attack, Encountered and destroyed a Japanese Carrier ship, before being forced back.

January 1 1942: Adrainiople falls, and massacars the civilians there, but the people rise up in resistance, and temprarly takes control of parts of adrainiople for weeks, but is put down by the German army, killing hundreds of thoussand on both sides.

feburary 17th: the Seige of Constantinople Begins. the German army destroy the steel walls, and enter the city, but is stopped halfway in due to ferice resistance. adrianiople rises up again, and fails, causing hundreds of thousands more deaths.

February 2 1943: the Sixth German army surround stalingrad and takes it from the russians. partisan resitance is crushed soon after.

may 13th 1943: German and Italian forces in north africa withdraws from the allied forces, dishing out heavy casulties while taking a few of their own.

July 5th 1943: Battle of Moscow: the German army, dispite heavy losses, take moscow and surrounding areas, the Soviet capital flees to Omsk. (why so far, i don't know) resistance there dosnt get crushed. since the war in Russia was basically won at this point, the germans rerouted much of the army to Constantinople.

January 1- march 31st 1944: the European side of Constantinople falls to the Germans, the capital relocates to the asian side. Byzantine and german planes fight for the dominance of the skies, bombing eachother, shooting down eachother, and doing recon of eachother, tens of thousands are killed on both sides..

July 4th- August 1st 1944: Second Battle of Moscow: the Soviet union destroys Army group center outside moscow and liberates the cities, causing great panic in berlin.

september: the Byzantine army destroys the german army in Constantinople and pushes the enemy back into germany. the Russian armies are overuning the Germans as well, having just taken stalingrad, the sixth german army, the largest army of any time in the world was totally destroyed with no survivors at Belgrade.

november: the german army manages to stop the Soviet advance at the border, and the Byzantine Army also at the border. advances inflict horrendous casulties on both sides, with no overall gain.

January 5th 1945: the USA nukes japan, japan surrenders.

feburary 5th: Council of Constantinople: inside the Hagia sofia, the only building in European Constantinople intact, the 4 big leaders discuss stragety into defeating the Nazi germany. it is deciced that the USA will nuke Berlin, by a Byzantine Jet plane designed to carry nukes. it will launch from Costantinople, nuke berlin and make it back, hopefully alive, then all 4 armies, will strike all at once, USA and britian from france, Byzantium from Hungary, Soviet Union from Belarus.

may 21st: the USA nukes Berlin, destroying the city and killing millions, hitler is killed, sadly a more competent person took over... the capital recovenes in Hamburg. USA and Great Britian invades france at juno beach, and the Soviet-Byzantine Army attacks the eastern flank, their Resistance is surprisenly stubborn, and gains are slow.

june 21st: German forces actually manage to Capture Budapest and Rome and made it as far as Serbia and silicy before beign broken up by Byzantine Forces

1946: the Allied forces Enter Germany. 5 million German army personell remains. gains are even slower as germanys industrial base rapidly rebuilds iitself after being bombed. it starts to consript men and women aged 10-80.

1948. Hamburg falls after 5 months worth of fighting, the German army is destroyed with absolutely no survivors. the war is over. Germany is Forever Affected, and will be unable to recover for decades, and with the imminent population collapse. at present germany is a 1st world country (relatively speaking), but its population is only 5 million.

1950-1980: the Byzantine Republic, broke from fighting WWII starts negociating with her colonies to peacefulyl declare indendence. None of them wants total independence but wants to be a Dominion of the Mainland. the Emperor accepts the offer.

February 10th 1949: the UN is created with 6 permanent Security seats (United States, Byzantine Republic, Republic (later peoples republic) of china, France, Soviet union and England.

the Byzantine Republic came out of the war with the over all 1st place on the World. it is considered a super power

October 7th 1954: the Byzantine Republic tests its first Nuclear weapon, becoming the Second nation to have nuclear weapons. the Treaty of Constantinople is signed limiting use of Nuclear weapons and to eventually dismantle them. only 3 nations ever have Nuclear weapons.

June 21st 1980: soviet invasion of Afghanistan, did not succeed because of funding resistance groups, ended in 1985.

December 1st 1986: Collapse of the Soviet Union.

1997: Constantinople Earthquake. the Eaerthquake orgiginated from just below Constantinople on a richter scale of 9.8. Constantinople was seriopusly damaged with few buildings still reasonably intact. tens of thousands has been killed and millions are homeless. most of the Governmenmt is dead, and the ancient palace has been destroyed. the city is obviously Rebuilt.

Janurary 1 2000: a decsion was made to rebuild the Aging oylmpic again, so it can conitinue in service.

October 5th: invasion of Afghanistan, resistance Crumbles in a few months. becomes a Successful Democratic (hindu) state by 2009.

2009: the Byzantine Republic reaches 700 million people on the mainland. growth is pretty much stopped at that point.

Janurary 12 2010: the earthquake hits the Dominion of Haiti. the capital has beiong Destroyed and most of the government is dead. the Byzantine Republic Governs Haiti according to the Hait consitution and elects new officals and Rebuilds the Area.

 

[choxorn]

Yeah, there are a few mistakes. One that stuck out is that you mentioned Saladin evacuating Meccans following the First Crusade, despite the fact that that was several decades before he was born.

Also, it's completely ridiculous to assume every other country in the World has the exact same territory as they do in OTL. Some things just wouldn't happen or would happen differently- if you make the Byzantines not die and become a super-empire, there would be many other effects on countries not controlled by the Byzantine Empire.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm always puzzled as to why the Byzantines would so enthusiastically engage in overseas colonisation; historically, that was motivated by the collapse of trade routes between Europe and the East, while in your history those should have remained strong. Colonialism probably would not have emerged as a significant period in European history at all, let alone have lead to the Byzanines becoming a pre-eminent colonial power.

 

[sophie]

Yeah, there are a few mistakes. One that stuck out is that you mentioned Saladin evacuating Meccans following the First Crusade, despite the fact that that was several decades before he was born.

Also, it's completely ridiculous to assume every other country in the World has the exact same territory as they do in OTL. Some things just wouldn't happen or would happen differently- if you make the Byzantines not die and become a super-empire, there would be many other effects on countries not controlled by the Byzantine Empire.

Yeah, the butterflies resulting of not only a surviving Byzantine Empire, but an absolutely vibrant Byzantine Empire would be mind boggling.

Also - Why would the Empire so suddenly enact such sweeping progressive reforms (a total shift from Monarchy to Democracy with universal suffrage, slavery abolished, freedom of religion and freedom of the press, etc.?!?)

Even in the most liberal of traditional European monarchies these kinds of rights took decades, even centuries to come about. To me, the idea that a King would willingly grant such massive sweeping reforms seems laughable (Dachs, feel free to totally sweep the legs of my argument away and make me look like a fool)

 

[TheLastOne36]

And in this timeline there will be no Byzantines, they will be known as Romans.

 

[Mathalamus]

(reponses by order of posts)

@ choxorn: well, there had to be at least one other Saladin. and it wasnt the same one that graced our history. i remember that Saladin was born and raised somewhere in Egypt. since the Caliphate never took Egypt, such things could be different.

i didn't consider the widest possible effects. i mainly limited it to small changes that automatically change s history ( you'll notice that there is no Pope)

@traitorfish: the Byzantines were scouting for new territories to colonize or conquer. im fairly sure America would be discovered anyway, colonization or no colonization.

@Owen: im inclined to agree. that reform is pushing it. i added that slave revolt and the democratization because i learned about Haiti. the original democratization date was 1794.

i wanted the Byzantines to actually matter. if Byzantium only held its core areas (modern turkey) it wouldn't be a great power by any means..

 

[Dachs]

If Justinian hadn't gone west (highly implausible; it was a great move) he would have gone east. Actually the whole series of sixth- and seventh-century events seems off. What exactly is the empire doing with all of Anastasios' money generated by the great reforms, sitting on it? Whither the plague and the tectonic events? And what made the 600 Persian war more noteworthy than any of the others the Byzantines are sure to have fought in the relevant period?

Also what's with people being born decades, centuries, and millennia after the PoD the same as they were in OTL

 

[Mathalamus]

uhh.. whoops. i didn't think this through. not conquering the western Europe would definitely make it very different, i don't know HOW different tho. i didnt know there was a reform in that time. perhaps there wasn't a reform ( unless the reform was directly in response to something that would have happened anyway). my knowledge on Byzantine history is certainty not complete.

an unwritten rule that history stays the same unless otherwise specified. ( to prevent the history from being virtually unrecognizable, also my creativity is limited) the demise of Islam as a major factor HAD to have done some changes, i don't know what changes though. Islam still existed and it can still spread.

if you have suggestions i'm welcome to hear it.

 

[Gelion]

Wiki map: CO2 per capita

Bloody North!

 

[Weik]

My folks, this is Central Europe:

Spoiler :

It extends a bit into France though.

No, this is Central Europe (the coloured area):

Central Europeans wear lederhosen and dirndls.

 

[Mathalamus]

an improved version of my map

Dark Blue is the core Areas of Byzantium
Light blue are Vassals or Autonomous Republics. of Byzantium obviously

this was done because Byzantium, for the first time ever got broke fighting WWII

(note: Italy was returned to Venice which promptly reformed itself as the Roman Republic. no relation to the earlier one)

Spoiler :

so what do you think?

 

[Kyriakos]

I like it
Particularly the main Byzantine empire, i do not care about the vassals.

 

[Yared]

Why is the colonization concentrated in some parts and not on others? I mean, why isn't like the coast area of Sudan part of it? You got it from Somalia, Eritrea and up to Egypt; why not between Egypt and Eritrea?

 

[Mathalamus]

i didn't want to make it too large. the British Empire had it.

if it helps, everything south and east of Lake Superior was Byzantine until 1845.

ill release some general info about Byzantium. its quite long.

Spoiler :

Population: 600 million
Military Size: 12 million
Human Development Index: .990
Gross Domestic Product: 50 Trillion BD (Byzantine Dollar)
Capital (and largest city): Constantinople
Ethnic Groups: 100% Byzantine
Government: Constitutional Monarchy
Current emperor: Barabas IV (1991- present) (Barabas Dyantasy took over circa 1870.)
Establishment: Roman Kingdom 753 BC, Roman Republic 509 BC, Roman Empire 27 BC Byzantine Empire 476 AD, Byzantine Republic 1840 AD.
Religion: 100% Christianity
Area: 1.4 million kilometers (core area)

Constantinople
Constantinople is the Number one Technological, military, industrious, Cultural, Economic, Tourist, and Religious Center of the Byzantine Republic. It contains 124,400,000 people, and has greatly expanded to cover 6,220 square kilometers. Constantinople is the Federal District, a province with no self governing capabilities. it is the only completely urbanized province in the world.

The Byzantine Republic is devided into 18 provinces. the largest cities are provincal capitals.

Greek Province (largest City: Athens)
Yugoslav Province (largest city: Belgrade)
Bulgaria Province (largest city: Sofia)
Albania Province (largest city: Albania)
Constantinople Federal District (capital, largest city Constantinople)
North Anatolian Province (largest city: Trebizon)
South Anatolian Province (largest city: Antioch)
West Anatolian Province (largest city: Nicaea)
East Anatolian Province (largest city: Malatya)
Central Anatolian Province (largest city: Ankara)
Cyprus Province (largest city: Nicosia)
Crete Province (largest city: Heraklion)
Crimea Province (largest city: Sevastopol)

Major Cities
These cities hold 2/5th of the population collectively. they all contain 15 million people. they are all located in the mainland.

Ankara (25 million people, Secondary capital)
Adrianople
Athens
Corinth
Belgrade
Nicaea
Konya
Sofia
Thessaloniki
Antioch
Dyrrachium
Trebizond
Sevastopol
Heraklion
Nicosia
Tirana

 

[Gelion]

What game is that?

 

[Mathalamus]

none. its my own made up imagination. but i managed to replace the Byzantine Empire with the Byzantine Republic in civilization 4.

getting to size 66 for the capital sure is hard...

 

[Gelion]

none. its my own made up imagination. but i managed to replace the Byzantine Empire with the Byzantine Republic in civilization 4.

getting to size 66 for the capital sure is hard...

Population 600 million is a hard one to get Some nice statistics!

 

[sophie]

GDP of 50 Trillion?!?!?!

*EDIT* Ok, it's in BD, so what would be the corresponding GDP in 2001 USD.

 

[sophie]

World Population densities in 1918:

Spoiler :

Wow, look at how unpopulated California is at this time! Hard to believe that in a couple decades it would become US's most populous state