Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!

[das]

Oh, and here is the description of the world now:

The World of 2005:

First of all, some minor but interesting notes. First space satellite was launched by Russia on April 1st 1984 (oddly, nobody seemed to believe that...). First man in space was an Indian, Indir Petal, on Janaury 11th 1993. A game series rather similar to Civilization did recently appear, it is called "Statecraft". An alternate history forum (note that by 2005, large parts of the internet's "WWW" (as it would've been called in OUR world) were monopolized under an international internet corparation, leaving only minor state internet in most countries) later gave birth to a forum game known as "WoD, or World of Difference", which is not too different from a NES.

Now to the geopolitical situation:

There are seven nations in North America: Confederacy of Canada, Republic of Quebec, Republic of Newfoundland, United States of America, Federal Republic of Mexico, United States of Central America and Haitian Confederation. All those nations are members of the North American Treaty Organisation (NATO) and the Free Trade Zone that goes along with it. All of those nations have multi-party democracy and are, for the most part, currently dominated by Social Democratic parties of varying degrees of power.

There are seven nations in South America: Venezuelan Republic, United States of Peru, United States of Bolivia, Republic of Paraguay, People's Republic of Chile, People's Republic of Argentina and Brazilian Federation. Apart from the People's Republics, the South American nations are members of the South American Free Trade Zone. The People's Republics are members of the Socialist Republican Alliance (SRA) together with People's Republic of Iberia and People's Republic of (East) Timbuktu. Venezuela is a presidential dictatorship, as is Paraguay. PRC and PRA are monoparty limited democracies politics-wise but are socialist economy-wise. Other nations are largely rightist multi-party democracies.

There are nineteen nations in Europe: Irish Republic, United Kingdom of Great Britain, French Sixth Republic, People's Republic of Iberia, Kingdom of Netherlands, Kingdom of Belgium, Kingdom of Norway, Kingdom of Sweden, Kingdom of Denmark, German Federation, Swiss Confederation, Italian Republic, Polish Republic, Federation of Czechia-Slovakia, Confederated Hungarian Empire, Romanian Republic, Yugoslav Confederation, Kingdom of Greece, Russian Democratic Empire. Russia, Poland and Czechia-Slovakia are members of the Pan-Slavic Organization. Denmark, Germany, Netherlands and Belgium are members of the Hannover Pact (free trade, open borders). Most monarchies within Europe ("Kingdom of"s and Hungary) are very limited parliamentarian monarchies, often with Social-Democratic/Liberal majorities (exception is Conservative-dominated Greece). Russia is an Emperor-less Empire, with a regent elected for life but with very limited powers (somehow stronger then the British monarch, but not significantly so). France is one of the most leftist nations in Europe, not counting Iberia which is a monoparty limited democracy and actually is more of a dictatorship (and, ofcourse, socialist). The most rightist state in Europe is either Greece, either Italy. Yugoslav Confederation is rather loose, with freedom of religion AND with autonomous religious-ethnic non-Yugoslav provinces (Albania and West Bosnia). There are strong separatist groups in: Ulster, Corsica, Slovakia, Austria, Transylvania, Finland and Lithuania, the first one and the latter two being the most violent ones.

There are fifteen nations in Africa: Federation of Maghrib, Egyptian Islamic Republic, Fulani Republic, (West) Timbuktu Republic, People's Republic of (East) Timbuktu, Federation of Chad, Greater Liberian Republic, Kingdom of Gold Coast, Nigerian Federation, Congolese Democratic Republic, Rhodesian Commonwealth, South African Republic, Tanzanian Imperial Republic, Republic of Madagascar and Empire of Abyssinia. Only Maghrib, Egypt and Rhodesia out of these are real republics. Ethiopia and Gold Coast are parliamentary monarchies, but their pearliaments don't have as much power as their European counterparts. Africa is currently stabilizing after the 1990 Revolutions, but it is still filled with economic, social and health problems (that are not as bad as in OTL, though). Egypt, Maghrib, Fulan and West Timbuktu are members of the Tunisian Pact. Angola is an autonomous province of South Africa (currently still ran by white supremacists). Rhodesia is a loose federation with recent establishment of racial equality.

There are five nations in West Asia (Middle East): Turkish Republic, Kurdistani Republic, United Islamic Republic (Syria, Lebanon, Iraq), Secular Federation of Judea-Palestine and Arabic Confederation. All those are actual republics, though Kurdistan has only recently became such. SFJP is a bi-lingual, bi-religious Arabic-Jewish state. There is talk of uniting UIR, SFJP and AC into one nation, but thus far the supporters of that idea only managed to get them to create a free-trade zone (which is actually quite an achievement...). Kurdistan is largely xenophobic (don't go there, Xen. ), while in Turkey there is a fairly large amount of nationalist activists who want to unify Anatolia under Turkey.

There are four nations in Mainland East Asia (Far East): Indian Commonwealth, Greater Chinese Republic, Korean Republic and Indochinese Federation. All those are democracies of varying degrees and regional autonomy (China, apart from Manchuria, is very centralized, while Indochina is quite decentralized). Indian-Indochinese border is currently the most heavily-fortified and explosive border in the world, despite the truce that ended the Second Siamese War in 1973. There is also much tension between GCR and Russia, while Pakistanis occasionally rebel in India. However, all-in-all this is a rapidly developing and prospering region.

There are four nations in Maritime East Asia (Australasia and Japan): Japanese Empire, United States of Philippines, Kingdom of Sabah and Australasian Federation. Sabah is one of the last absolute monarchies in the world. Japan is much like in OTL, but with a larger army/navy. Australasian Federation is a federation of Australia, New Zeeland and East New Guinea and is the best example of succesful "integrationalism".

USA, Netherlands and Russia are the world's last colonial powers, but Netherlands is currently beginning the process of evacuating Indonesia due to bursts of terrorist activity.

The Russian Senate is bitterly polarized between liberals and conservatives/nationalists, with the former granting more ethnic autonomy, or even independance, to the Baltic States, Finland and some Asian territories, and the later saying that this undermines the Russian power and allows opportunistic powers to expand into those territories, hint-hint China.

USA is also polarized, between isolationists and "peace-keepers". The latter are often reminded by the former of what happened to France.

I will tell you more about any nation's history/current situation if you ask. Please, do ask, I like answering such questions.

I hope somebody one day uses this as a setting.

 

[Communisto]

i wonder if there are kids in alternate universe going "hey, what if napoleon had lost at waterloo?"

 

[Dachs]

I thought he did. What if Davout was in command against Blucher instead of Grouchy?

 

[Kal'thzar]

Thats Communisto's point

In an Aternative Universe, napoleon won it, so kids wonder what would happen if he lost it.

 

[Dachs]

Oops (note to self: try to understand posts more thoroughly). I thought he was talking about althistorians, who live in their own universe...

 

[das]

I'm an althistorian, but I am not sure to which reality I should move. Which ever has the best internet connection, I guess.

 

[Insane_Panda]

BUMPed. Like a volleyball!

We must never let this thread sink.

 

[Drake Rlugia]

I was just reading this thread, and an idea popped into my head. It's alt. history, and I believe it'd have some neat effects on the world, because of such differences.

Europe doesn't exsist. During the forming of landmasses, Europe..just isn't formed. So basically you have a bunch of water where Europe should be(except the British isles, they exsist, seeing as they are and island), with a totally isolated Britain and Ireland.

The world be majorly different, depending where you start. The Romans and Greeks would not exsist, making the ancient world mainly a bout between middle eastern powers of Persia, Egypt, Babylon and other middle eastern tribes in the ancient age, a super empire being formed by Persia most likely, enduring much longer than Rome.

The middle ages would occur much later, and Islam would prolly either appear later than OTL, or not at all. The huns would either raid Persia, or end up starving the steppes, becoming a rival tribe to the Mongols. As for Carthrage, it would become some sort of mercantile state, without Rome's interfearance.

In the end, the world would advance somewhat slower, New world being discovered later, and the British Isles becoming an area for prime colonization by major Middle eastern and Asiatic powers.

 

[alex994]

and how would china fit in?

 

[Oruc]

Nope!

 

[alex994]

O__O, who does like pottery? it's finery and sign of your sophistication!

 

[Drake Rlugia]

China would probally become a super power, seeing as it won't have any European Imperialism trying to crush it in the 1800s, although it would have to contend with the Mongols and the Huns, both who could conduct raids. So China would either become strong, or be crippled very badly, making it a tribute state to the Huns or Mongols..or both?

 

[das]

a super empire being formed by Persia most likely, enduring much longer than Rome.

Alas. I like Persia, but its governing system broke down even without Greeks due to its size.

The middle ages would occur much later

They probably won't occur at all... And neither would the Dark Ages.

Islam would prolly either appear later than OTL, or not at all

Not At All! Not At All!

In the end, the world would advance somewhat slower,

Considering that it was the Romans and after a certain point the Greeks who slowed it down... No. Some people I know like to shout about "Greek scientific methods", but IMHO China was good at inventing stuff and Korea was good at putting them to good use. So, Korea will be the ATL Greece, in a way.

New world being discovered later

Why? Carthage, need I remind you, was in position to do so, and without Greeks and Romans, there won't be much else for them to do...

 

[Kal'thzar]

Assuming carthage forms as they would end up having less trading partners etc if europe doesn't exist

 

[das]

Assuming carthage forms as they would end up having less trading partners etc if europe doesn't exist

Yes, it will defintiely be different. But a Phoenician settlement in the area of OTL Carthage is quite likely, though not as far as in OTL.

 

[Kal'thzar]

point taken, of course you did compromise

 

[Drake Rlugia]

Yes, I see your points. China was a great scientific beacon, but most of it's ideas remained in China many centuries before moving outwards. Without Europe however, China would most likely remain a great scientific nation.

New World I can see being discovered later because of transportation issues..The Chinese weren't really naval type people, and it was mainly Europeans who improved upon the naval designs, but I agree that it could be discovered at the same time or earlier, for the fact Carthrage be looking for routes to China(it's a scientific beacon and I think it would remain so!)

As for Islam and religion, I am wrong. They would be about the same, and they would all be formed around the same time, Christianity forming as well(But I'm not sure if it would gain as large of a following as the OTL.), I think the middle east would end up with Christian, or Islamic religions just for the sake those are the only two in that area(although it wouldn't be impossible having Asiatic religions imported from trading..).

 

[das]

Actually, there is no way the same religions would arise.

Most Chinese ideas simply DIDN'T GET OUTSIDE OF EAST ASIA. Other East Asian nations adopted them well - Korea and Japan had in the 16th century ironclads, whilst the Europeans still only had sailships, and both had the CAPABILITY to build great ships.

 

[Xen]

@Das- 16th centurt asian iron clads cant compare to the Ironclads invented in or around the period of the US civil war; east asia had wooden ships with some iron plateign on them; as you will do well to note, the Monitor, feilded by the USA during the US civil war was completelly made our of metal, and more over had a spinnign top turrent for cannon-fire in anay direction.

 

[das]

Um, Xen, I never claimed it was. Simply that the European ships of the time were pshik when compared with the Japanese and Korean ironclads IN THE TERMS OF TECHNOLOGIC ADVANCEMENT. Nor with the Chinese treasure ships.

The main problem of East Asia was that they didn't know how to use all this to this extent. China simply stopped advancing at some point. IMHO, even without the Europeans (ESPECIALLY without them) it (East Asia as a whole) would still eventually pick up. And its not a given that THIS China will ever become isolationist, neither - the history will diverge so much by then that nothing will be quite the same. For example, I am sure there won't be Islam. So, no Talas River, greater Chinese Central Asian influence.