alex994 said:
Rights of speech and the etc is good and sweet don't get me wrong, but increasing the living standards of the people is a much higher priority then introducing those rights. The Government of China can only concentrate their energies on one thing either introduce more democratic legislation or improve living standards. And as most Chinese would do, they chose improve living standards.
that is as much a cop-out answer as ever, and you knwo it as well as I do; it dosent take extream funds or attention to let people participate in even meager local elections; hell, they could just use Hong-Kong as an example if they wanted to; it still operates at least semi-democratically (or is supposed to, until 2047)
A few years time is completely unrealistic. Give or take 3 decades, when the current generation grows up and becomes the new leaders and corporate bosses who will be much more inclined and knowledgeable about Democracy.
hardly; the US completed its transition into a few years; under US guidence, Italy and Germany were able to re-assuem the democratic tradition (though they both still have the habit of electing crap leaders), and Japan, a nation which had never before known of the concept was as well bestowed democracy in a far shorter tiem then "a few decades"- at most I'd wager with sensible managment, and oversight, it could happen in as little as 4 years, as many as 12, with my gut saying that it woudl require 8 years to oversee it happen, as the basic map is already in place, in the form of Hong-Kong; it just needs a careful, slow, and well-pallned extension into the rest of China
The day China allows other people to observe it's own elections is the day the Sun goes around the Earth. Why not simply wait longer until they are able to have elections without foreign people watching us?
1)your not an "us", your an american who is of Chinese ethnicty, the same as while the rest of you liek to make me the very spitting Image of Rome (and so attach all your percived evils of it onto me) I'm very much an American but of that descent- that you go on excusrions to china dosent ear mark you as knowing a damn what it must be like for average chinese citizen who dosent give a damn about freedom, because hes just too centered on trying to take advatage fo oppertunites that coudl have been availible to him since childhood, had the circumstances been so slightlly different just after WWII.
2)because the way you paint it, that day will never come, and china will have to have an advisory council no matter when it chooses to becoem democratic (or, alternatelly, since the the china you paint is so thoughlly undemocratic, forced into it; but my opinion is that is complete BS)
That's what the Communists are doing right now oh so knowledgeable xen.
did I say that was a bad thing? No, I didnt- its a damn good thing, but its need to be protected tooth and nail; not dismissed passivlly as being somthign that "isnt for china", particruley by those ethnic chinese who live in other countries precislly because they or thier ancestors came here for better oppertunties, and choose to stay after they made thier money because of the freedom.- that red china appears otbe reforming is stupendous news; but people who hold the opinion that either A)its not needed, or B)Its a bad thing always seem to come along; and I wont stand it for a second.
No one "deserves" anything, the Chinese would know best. Everything we have should be gained through hard work and determination.
spoken like a true communist.
screw freedom, just give the plebs soem half assed incentives to make thier lives marginally better. they dont know whats for thier own good, they can trust big brother.
North King is a hardliner leftist, i don't think you and him have much in common in politics.
Hes a hardliner socilast; I'm a moderate socialist, but advocate that any tactics used in general by the left to win election shave to be able to fully parry what the GoP and neo-cons want to throw at us.
I concede this point, but not about your grandmother
my grandmother is pretty smart lady
On the contrary, when he first took power things went quite nice. The going went bad according to my parents and various books after his wife during WWII died and he got a new wife who "whispered" in his year and influenced him to do what he did. Those same bloody nationalists did get their act together, but I doubt, STRONGLY doubt that if they had remained in power in the Mainland they could have done the same thing for all of China.
got news for you- behind every strong man, thier is a strong woman to support him
regardless of the wife of Mao (and his attendent like of having just about all the girls in China availible to him; in a fashion befit of the old emperors he wanted to crush the memory of) it dosent matter if he was influcned or co-erced into the cultural revolution, he is still resposnsible for every itty-bitty ounce of destruction it did, as it simply would not have happen if he had not willed it done.
as for the nationalists; I findit hard to belive anythign coudl have been worse for china then the communist party.
The Nationalists also had it easier, with strong American economical and military support as well as a smaller population. The Mainland did quite well even if they had a few small bumps (under exaggerated of course) to bring even this much of it's people into the Middle Class who's living RIVALS those of the United States, Europe, and surpasses that of Taiwan's own middle class.
1)and you think mainland china woudlnt have recived help as well? you very much mistaken- that was during the cold war! The Mainland coudl have had as much help to get on its feet as Japan or Italy, or Germany- or the entirty of europe and beyond more or less to becoem a stable country, because the US wouldnt have wanted mainland china becoming communist if it could at all be stopped; and china, with such a huge strategic potential, could have expected a great deal of aide indeed.
2)and just how large is this middle class? do you know of how many people actually comprise it? I'm willing to bet both the number is dwarfed by the number of people of th emiddle class in europe and the US, despite chinas population, but that compartivlly, its only the upper middle class who has the benifits of the avergae citizen in either of the two other domains, and regardless, still dosent even have the real freedom to be able to go on the internet, see websites uncensored by thier government, and actually interact with the wordl at large.
I've always wondered, do moderators get paid?
But anyways, it's probably because Civilization isn't as well known in China, if known at all, as in the rest of the world. Plus teens and the like have tons of homework in China.
no, mods dotn get paid- they are maid mods because they are grouchy, and observant, and follow the rules.
to get back to the point; if one of thes eposters had enough free time to create a custum unit (which implies hes rather well off) and still abrubtlly isnt heard from agian after perhaps 3 days of posting, i tleaves questions; big ones, into why he left, particualy when he was apperentlyl happy about making more such units (the unit itself was nice, but a bit over sized to mix well, IMO)
His lecturing tours actually criticizes the Communists Government in saying what they could have done better... For the matter, I don't know the names of a single person that's been jailed by the Communists Party. While that does disturb me, the knowledge that it's not happening as often as in the past is reassuring...
the main trouble is that A)the chinese government is going to let anyone know what it dose wrong; it kept sars under wraps as long a spossible; the same with avian flu; its gotten in troubel for trying to curtail Hong-Kong free press, and not too long ago, we heard of conflictinf reports of incident with Mulim populations in the westernmost portions of China; just because you dont know, and dont hear somthing is going on dosent mean it isnt, and China appears to be keeping its tradition of sliencing -or trying to- all opposition to what the head parfty wants alive and kicking with propaganda galore.
