Alternate History Thread II...

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It came earlier than in OTL due to a more intense Anglo-French naval competition (no equivalent of the Battle of Trafalgar, or of Abdoukir for that matter; the British still do crush the French fleet eventually, but not as decisively). That and the British tried to seize Louisiana, and the Americans decided to pre-empt them.
 
OOC: The First Oceanic War is quite large and important, so I decided to do it separately before getting to the rest of the Thaw period (including the fates of the rest of the world in the time of the FOW).

IC:

1747-1752. The First Oceanic War.

On March 7th 1747, a man named Sir Richard Davenport was running through the small, crampy Indian streets. He happened to be the official British representative at the court of the Nizam of Berar, and somewhat less officially a military advisor to the said Nizam. Which was what made the far more blatant Spanish commanders and the hordes of local rebels and Pindari mercenaries currently looting the city so angry. Davenport was running away from them right now, having barely escaped the Nizam's palace when the city fell due to treachery. Cursing, Davenport ran across yet another corner...

Ooops. The Pindari mercenaries were coming at him, from both directions now. He tried to fight back, but was chopped into pieces, all before the eyes of the Spanish commander, who later sighed with regret and said that, alas, he came too late to stop the mercenaries.

The British didn't buy that. Not only was that not the first such incident, it was also the worst of them all, both due to Davenport's rank and the large amount of influence his relatives had in the society. Besides, naval incidents were also becoming quite widespread; some English ship was actually captured in port, and its captain, uh, be-eared. That was a month ago, and war was barely avoided; but now, this! War was inevitable, the British leaders realized. Might as well start it now, and take the initiative...

Thus begun the Anglo-Spanish, or the First Oceanic, War.

The British high command has, after some debates, decided to first launch a concentrated attack on Spain's own Atlantic coast, to put the Spanish fleet there on the defensive and then to devastate the Spanish commerce, winning a war of attrition; the enemies of this "Oceanic" strategy, the so-called "Colonialists", instead suggested that a multitude of probing attacks should be launched on all the Spanish colonies, overstretching the numerically-superior (admittedly, only barely so) Spanish fleet and then seizing several vital colonies, most notably Cuba, Macao, Goa and the Philippines; those colonies could be held as bargaining cards and later exchanged for other concessions. Although the Colonialists lost in the debates, they did get the British to prepare expeditions to take out Goa and Manila.

The Spanish, meanwhile, intended to deliver a single killing blow on Britain. The new Spanish Armade, rebuilt during all the years that passed since the destruction of the old one, was to eliminate the British European navy in a single decisive battle, incapacitate the British commerce and transport soldiers into Ireland, Scotland and Western England, where Catholic rebellions were to commence. And most importantly, troops were to be transported to take London. No matter what successes the British score elsewhere, King Carlos III was quite confident of his victory.

But neither the British nor the Spanish plans worked. The British fleet set out earlier, acting upon reliable information about the Spanish fleet amassing at Lisbon, and managed to intercept it at Cape Finisterre, decimating a large portion of it in a furious battle. Yet the Spanish held out long enough for the other Spanish fleet - moving out of Seville - to reach the Cape, falling upon the exhausted British from behind. They tried to maneuver their way out of this trap, but the winds died down by then. The British admiral, Sir Lawrence Haworth, decided to give battle. In a desperate, chaotic skirmish, thanks to the skill of British sailors and those of Sir Haworth himself, the Spanish fleet was kept at bay and eventually the British managed to escape northwards. Their fleet was badly-scathed, but it survived and limped back to Brest, where the pro-British Bretons eagerly allowed it to remain for a while. The Spanish fleet, for its part, won - but won a Pyrrhic victory, having suffered huge casualties. The planned Northern Voyage had to be cancelled. Neither side gained an easy victory here.

Meanwhile, on secondary fronts, the British obviously had the initiative. They secured the Philippines, preventing Siam from entering the war yet (as it was supposed to receive a few shipments of Spanish advisors, troops and weapons from Manila first), and tried to do the same at Macao, but were forbidden by the Chinese who have decided to remain neutral for now. Not that there were many Spanish ships there, ofcourse. In India, the British and the Spanish forces clashed directly for the first time, although most combat still took place between their native allies; the most notable European vs. European battles took place on the western coast, where the small Spanish flotilla was dispersed, allowing the British to launch several seaborne assaults on Spanish-held cities and trade posts. Several of the latter were burned down, and one of the former was taken as a base, but the main attack - on Goa - has failed due to the good state of local fortifications and the timely arrival of General Antonio de Carvalho, the Portuguese-born commander of the Spanish army in India. However, in Central Deccan, the pro-British forces, newly-reinforced by their allies in person, begun to turn the tide, retaking the city of Nagpur. From the ports of North America and the Carribean, most notably New Amsterdam and Guadeloupe, the British begun their attacks on the Spanish commerce and communication lines. In response, the Spanish intensified their operations in the British North America, or rather in the nearby territories where anti-British Amerinds and Metis were being armed and incited by the Spaniards. Raids intensified, and the British had to rely ever-more on the local militias.

In 1748, both sides tried to end the war, but negotiations broke down when the British proposal for a partition of the world into spheres of influence, with British preeminence in Asia and Spanish in Africa (but, ofcourse, the Spanish were to retain some influence in parts of Asia, whereas the British - in Africa), which was deemed unacceptable by the Spanish who were particularily outraged by the offers to purchase the Philippines. The war went on, and both sides had to seek new ways to break the balance. New ships were to be built or purchased, new campaigns were being planned, while special British and Spanish officials were assigned to seek out useful technologic innovations and diplomats of both countries seeked out allies. All of this bore fruit - although 1748 itself was mostly spent on minor skirmishes and raids, by the time it ended both sides were ready for the next round of warfare - this time, in the Atlantic Ocean itself, along the trade routes between Iberia and New Spain. The British seeked to establish complete control over that route, and to seize the wealthy Spanish Carribean possessions; the Spanish seeked to protect the route and the islands, and to overstretch the British fleet there. On the technological front, the new steamships were being adopted by both sides, although they were quite experimental; the huge new "sea serpent" underwater ships were also being designed by the Spanish, who were eager to use any good ideas that could be brought against the British. A few other innovations took place as well, notably the fact that both the British and the Spanish fleets were being rebuilt with the best of modern designs and technologies, in theory anyway. In other words, both fleets were to be modernized.

And finally, the diplomats secured certain agreements with 3rd powers. The war was expanding - the French agreed to help out the Spanish, whereas the British won Savoy-Provence and Huguenot Gascogne over to their side. In Asia, the Spaniards failed to persuade the Siamese to assist them, but the Siamese nonetheless decided to use the British distraction to attack the British allies in Myanmar. The British still didn't get the Chinese to agree to let them seize Macao; in fact, the Chinese were becoming increasingly angry, as the British disrupted their trade with Spain by capturing Manila. It wasn't all that valuable, true, but it could be considered an insult. Thankfully for the British, the Qianlong Emperor was a patient, understanding man who also was rather busy explaining the concept of the Heavenly Mandate to the western barbarians of Kokand.
 
So in 1749, the replenished and reinforced forces of both sides resumed combat. In North America, British punitive expeditions crippled the Iroquois Confederacy, but only after hard fighting and surprisingly heavy casualties due to the partisan war waged by the Iroquois. The Spanish colony of Nueva Habana, in the delta of the Mississippi, was seized by the British, who proceeded to rid the river of Spanish presence; from there and from Guadeloupe, the British, after fighting off a Spanish assault, landed on Cuba and besieged Habana. The siege didn't go all too well, however, owing to the tropical diseases and the well-prepared state of the Spanish garrison; eventually, it had to be called off. Further west, the Spanish had a minor victory of their own - they seized British possessions in Central and South America (namely, Belize, Mosquito Coast and the numerous territories in Guiana Highlands). Several British raids were also succesfully repulsed.

Throughout the Atlantic Ocean, the British preyed on Spanish trade, while the Spaniards organized a system of convoys to defend their routes; in the end, the Spanish managed to restore safety, but that happened mostly because the British navy was distracted towards the battles near Europe itself. Specifically, the Franco-Spanish fleet that gathered to assist their respective land armies conducting the Second Siege of La-Rochelle had to be stopped. Unfortunately, the Brtiish failed to prevent the two fleets from meeting up; although the French fleet was rather weak, it still did strenghthen the Spanish somewhat, and, more importantly, the Spanish no longer could be caught on the move. Instead, they readily gave battle to Lord Barrington's fleet (Sir Haworth was demoted for his "defeat" and died of ill health and disillusionment soon after) and drove it back (partially thanks to the good Spanish use of their experimental steamships), continuing the siege. On the land, most of Huguenot land already fell, but several strongholds, such as Bordeaux and La-Rochelle itself, were holding out. Yet they seemed, at the time, doomed.

Similarily, the Franco-Spanish forces were advancing through Provence and Brittany; in both, they faced fierce resistance, but pressed on nonetheless. A British expeditionary force prevented them from advancing too far into Brittany, but something had to be done nonetheless, and eventually, it was. William Lennox Richmond's forces embarked on paddle-ships and travelled up the Seine. This was a daring move, but a one that the poorly-led French forces didn't expect at all, and thus fell prey to. Lord Richmond fought his way into Paris in a sudden attack and easily overran the French garrison. King Louis-Phillipe was captured and soon forced to sign peace, ceding Normandy to Britain (so that they could keep an eye on him; besides, it was a potentially-rich agricultural province) and withdrawing from the war, as well as allowing the British to place troops on his territory. Naturally, far from all recognized this humiliating treaty; Louis-Philipe's cousin Henri was particularily angry. He was quite far away in the line to the French throne, but did have considerable holdings in Aquitaine, which was mostly occupied by the Spanish troops. With just a little pushing, he agreed to declare himself king of the newly-declared Kingdom of Aquitaine, a Spanish puppet state. Many French troops in the region pledged allegience to Henri, aware that they didn't really have much of a choice and also angry at the "damnlimeys". France was effectively thrown into a civil war, especially as Louis-Philipe's brother Gabriel tried to take over Paris itself (he failed - he managed to start a rebellion, but it was supressed by the new British garrison).

The British forces now were able to proceed to Gascogne, where they managed to relieve La Rochelle with an attack from the land and the sea. However, Bordeaux was seized by the Spanish troops, and Frédéric II has perished in battle without heirs. A provisional assembly in La Rochelle was declared the new Huguenot government. After some more maneuvering, the "front" stalemated approximately on the line of Northern Rhone-Massif Central-Garonne. Skirmishes and attempts to gain territory beyond that line were made by both sides, but none were too serious until, in early 1750, the British, having previously finally expelled the Spanish fleet from the region, besieged, assaulted (with the help of the local population) and seized Bordeaux.

British attacks on Iberia itself this year were mildly more succesful - several cities were badly damaged by naval bombardments, and in some cases even looted by the Maritimes. The Spanish eventually organized the defenses, both with strenghthened garrisons, militias and naval patrols of the coast. The British weren't yet ready to once more attempt a knock-out blow. But they were preparing.

Meanwhile, in Africa, the British struck out against Spanish outposts, especially the isolated, minor ones in West and Central Africas. Most of those outposts were secured; on the other hand, the British attacks in East Africa were much less succesful, with a disastrous failure at Zanzibar where the local pro-Spanish city-states were, unexpectedly for the British, bolstered by a fairly large Spanish flotilla.

In India, the war has fully turned into a slug-fest, with but occasional attacks on large cities that switched hands quite often.

In Indochina, some interesting stuff happened. The Siamese have invaded and crushed, by mid-1750, the kingdom of Myanmar, in spite of limited British assistance provided to the latter. That is to say, they have taken and looted the capital, and secured control over much of the Irrawaddy valley, but went no further naturally, for that was far beyond their logistical capacity. This proved to be their undoing, as albeit they did manage to fell the Ava Dynasty, they didn't completely finish off Siam just yet. A minor village headman, called Alaungpaya, has started an anti-Siamese rebellion, assembling an ersatz court in his village of Moksobomyo. He managed to make himself the leader of national resistance, and amassed a fairly large army that won several minor victories. However, this army was defeated rather badly at Sagaing, and defeat seemed near even though Alaungpaya managed to regroup. It was then that he had managed to find himself a powerful ally, as powerful (if not more) as the British, though at a price - for the Banners of the Qing Dynasty to lend assistance to the Burmese, the said Burmese had to become vassals. But surely that was better than Siamese rule!

And so, Qianlong's armies set out to reinforce Alaungpaya, and, at the same time, to conquer Siam (there were a lot of armies. Large armies, too. This IS China, you know...). Although before the Chinese forces came, Alaungpaya had to retreat to the northwards, in what was called by later Burmese historians "the Long March", when they DID come the day of Alaungpaya's glory came with them. The Siamese were defeated time and again, and soon, the ruins of the old capital, Ava, were in Burmese hands once more. The Burmese then marched on to take Pegu, but most of their Chinese allies went east. The Qianlong Emperor was not amused by continued Siamese resistance, and it was the duty of his Banners to "amuse" him in that regard.

The Siamese fought bravely, but, by 1752, as the First Oceanic War came to an end, they were already defending the very core of their lands. Thonburi, the capital of Siam, was itself coming under attack. Finally, Siam had to sign peace, ceding some borderlands to the Chinese vassal states of Annam and Myanmar and itself joining their ranks, becoming yet another one of the many tributaries of the Qianglong Emperor. Now isn't that amusing?

Anyway, after some more skirmishes, battles and sieges, the final, decisive naval battle came. The Battle of Trafalgar, also called by some more classically-educated British historians as the "Battle of the Pillars of Hercules". The best of the British fleet came there, with the intentions of forcing their way through the Pillars, or through the Straits of Gibraltar as the more sane of people call them. It was a risky move, but, if succesful, it would grant the British access into the Mediterranean Sea itself. Then, Spain could trully be crushed, with the devastation of its Mediterranean and Atlantic trade at the same time. It was also hoped to draw attention of the Spanish fleet here, and defeat it, so that it could no longer threaten the British operations; thus, the British wanted to kill two birds with one arrow.

Unfortunately, the British underestimated the power of the Spanish fleet. For years now, it was being rebuilt. The Most Catholic Monarch of Spain did everything he could to prepare for this ultimate showdown. He granted semi-autonomous status to Genoa, Catalonia and Portugal, in exchangefor more and more ships, more and more dockyards, more and more sailors. All the warships with the minimum of fighting capacity that could be found were being gathered. With generous funding, provided thanks to the money won by reconciling with the Jewry (the things one has to do for victory...), even more ships were being built, and better ones, and newer ones. All sorts of weapons were being tested - war rockets, submarines, you name it; not much of it worked, but the war rockets at least proved quite useful. The treasury was practically stretched to its limits, with all this construction and maintenance. And now, it was time for it all to pay off... or to be for nothing.

Admiral Estebanez Maria de Hita was determined for the efforts of an entire empire not to go to waste. Upon learning of the British fleet moving to seize Gibraltar and Tangiers, Estebanez decided to try and pin the British fleet down there. He knew that, alas, the British had the lead in quality, but he was determined to make sure that the Spanish quantity, combined with the legendary Spanish fury, would be sufficient qualities on their own. He was also smart enough to understand that the British weren't dumb - despite the over-optimistic promises of his staff, he knew that this situation, with the British fleet almost begging to be surrounded, pinned against the coast and eliminated, was way too good to be true. The British had more ships in the hiding nearby, probably, ready to strike out and trap the Spanish would-be trappers themselves once they engage the main fleet. So Estebanez used the Spanish quantity to find some ships that could be spent to delay the British attacks from the outside. He had made plans for what he termed the "Alesia of the seas", for indeed the battle that he planned, and the battle that actually did happen, bore much resemblance to Caeser's famous siege. One British fleet was to be trapped, and then the Spanish themselves were to ward off the other British fleets.

I shan't bore you with details. Lots of things didn't go according to plan, but the Spanish fared much better than the British expected. The orderly lines of ships were soon turned into a mess, as a desperate, chaotic battle ensued, with lots of boardings, bombardments, everything that could happen in a naval battle basically, even rammings and suicide attacks with fireships. The British and the Spanish threw more and more reserves into the fray. A gigantic section of the sea was crowded with ships, damaged ships, blazing ships, sinking ships... and a few intact ships.

And in the end, Spanish fury and Estebanez' luck just barely prevailed. All those years were not for nothing. Spain has regained its honour, its pride in its fleet. And though that fleet was badly damaged, the British one was even moreso.

Soon after, the Treaty of Lisbon was signed. Peace came. It was, to be honest, rather anticlimatic, and could in some regards be almost considered a Spanish defeat.

Firstly, all colonies were restored to status quo. Without exceptions - all the Spanish colonies were returned by Britain, all the British - by Spain. Secondly, both sides agreed not to incite natives or rebels to attack one another's possessions. Thirdly, in France itself, Aquitaine was reannexed by France, but Spain annexed Languedoc and Britain kept Normandy; Britain also established "protectorates" over Brittany and Gascony. Savoy-Provence returned to status quo. Both sides agreed not to despatch troops to France without the consent and participation of the other; they also, ofcourse, agreed to ensure that France is kept in its current weakened state, yet, on the other hand, doesn't fall to anybody else.

Fourthly, and most importantly, the heretofore unclaimed parts of the world was divided into spheres of influence of one or another of the two great powers. They all kept their colonies, as mentioned before, but in parts of the world within another power's sphere of influence, they had no right to expand further. North America was partitioned along the Mississippi River - everything to the east was British (apart from Florida, ofcourse), everything to the west - Spanish. South and Central Americas were naturally in the Spanish sphere. North Africa was also Spanish, but the West Subsaharan was British. Congo Basin was in Spanish sphere, as was all the land north of the Kalahari Desert; but to the south was the British sphere. East Africa, from Mozambique to Mogadishu includingly, was in Spanish sphere, along with Madagascar; but the rest of the Horn of Africa was in British sphere (Britain by then signed numerous treaties with Abyssinia, so it did have much influence there). The western 1/4 of India was in the Spanish sphere; the rest, in British. East Indies and Indochina were in the British sphere too.

The true significance of this war was that the two great colonial powers, the only two serious colonial powers still in existance, have in effect signed a new Treaty of Tordesillas, dividing the world. Although the Treaty of Lisbon didn't bring about eternal peace between them, it has regulated their struggles and limited them to local-scale wars, often fought by proxy, and conflicts that for the most part were resolved by diplomats, not soldiers. The two vast global empires agreed to co-exist (warily), and the bi-polar world came into being.
 
Any comments? Kal'thazr?
 
Central/Eastern Europe, and the rest of the world, will, as said before, come soon. The map... I want to make it for a later period. More specifically, for the actual use by Kal'thzar when he starts that NES.
 
I think I'll add a few appropriately-cryptic spoilers, though. There will be a Third German War, and lots of smaller regional wars, a powerful alliance will cease to exist, and, ofcourse, the Thaw will end. It will end because of a revolution... but where?
 
Analyzing your alternate histories using antecedent probability, most likely Poland or France.
 
Neither of them (France... maybe, but much later).
 
das...what alternate history do you want modded the most?
 
das...what alternate history do you want modded the most?

Out of my own? Well, I already showed you that map long ago (the one with Yuan China, powerful Byzantium and stuff...), I'd like to see that one done. But there are lots of others as well (for instance, the world where Nicholas II, in a highly characteristic move, allowed "Cousin Willy" to take Port Arthur, causing an eventual Germano-Japanese War, an indecisive and even more devastating WWI, and the collapse of the British Empire in late 20s-early 30s to an alliance of local rebels, Germany, USA and lots of others jumping in after a while. I made a map for that as well, two maps in fact (one an "ordinary" map, another an alliance map)).

could you do a list of current nations and approx strengths? jsut to get a better feel?

There are way too many nations left (in Germany particularily.), so its too early to list them all... ;)

The "Great Powers", however, are these (from strongest to weakest, probably):
- UK (powerful navy, powerful army, powerful economy; is industrializing).
- Spain (same as above, but slightly weaker and more overstretched).
- Burgundy (rather weak navy, but the rest is good; is also industrializing rapidly).
- Poland (weak navy, but very good army, possibly the best cavalry in Europe. Is ofcourse also industrializing, and is quite advanced; after all, this is Adam d'Biran's country...).
- Qing China (has a gigantic army and is generally strong, but is also quite stagnant...).
- Russia (weak navy, pretty good army and economy but is rather backwards. Modernization is quite rapid, however).
- Nadirid Persia (has a very good, comparatively modern army, but in spite of all the recent conquests has a terrible economy, and is unlikely to survive Nadir Shah's death... or is it?).
- Ottoman Empire (is actually still fairly strong, but the recent territorial losses, the damage done to the army and the general instability caused by all those defeats brought it down.).
- Venice (has a weak army and not too much territory, but is currently returning to a position of strenght, what's with all the gains against the Ottomans and all, plus the recent reforms that re-invigorated it.).
 
hmm, well das, I dont want to mod the second one you mentioned...Im more of a before 1900's kinda mod.

What were the details on the Yuan China-Byzantium one you mentioned? If you showed me the map, I cant remember it anymore.
 
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This world is based on the premise that the Yemenian Crusader (well, how else would you call a Christian army attacking somebody for religious reasons?) army besieging Mecca on the year of Mohammed's birth in OTL is triumphant. That army's commander Abraha, a rogue Axumite general, and his successors eventually found a Christian Red Sea empire, that is much later conquered by the Byzantines.

Meanwhile, the Byzantine Empire remains very strong and almost rebuilds the Roman Empire in its entirety (in the 10th-early 13th centuries), Persia is conquered by the Turks who then convert to Zoroastrianism, a Sino-Turkic state arises in Central Asia, Vikings take over Britain, Spain and Vinland, Khazars survive, Mongols are defeated in the west but consolidate in the east, lots of other crazy stuff happens and in 1403, the first official Byzantine naval trading expedition reaches the Yuan port of Saigon...
 
sounds INTRIGUING, thanks dasio
 
I know your not feeling well das, and your busy with your NES AND helping get Kalth'zars off the ground. All I need is a nation list, stats can come whenever you feel like it.

I really really like where this PoD could go as an NES.
 
Ugh! I typed up a rather long thing about religion in that world, and it was all lost. :( I'll try to write it again later, anyway, the nations.

Nation List:
1. Vinland (Both Americas):
- New Vinland (light-green country).
- Olafsland (bluish inland country).
- Sorland (small coastal pinkish country).
- Isondegia (brownish coastal country with colonies).
- Timucua (in Florida).
- Heavenly Dakotan Empire (the Blob of the Great Plains).
- Toltec Empire (in Mexico).
- Chimu Empire (in Peru).

2. Europe:
- Viking Britain (the dark orange country in, um, Britain).
- Frankreich (Frankia; the dark blue country in France).
- Aquitaine (the tan country in Aquitaine).
- Norman Lusitania (the country in Iberia).
- Saxony (the dark gray country in northern Germany).
- Prussia (the dark green country in East Prussia).
- Moravia (the light yellow country in Greater Moravia... well, in Eastern Europe).
- Byzantine Empire (the darkish red country. Pretty obvious, IMHO).
- Novgorodian Rus (the light blue country in northeastern Europe).
- Khazarian Kaganate (the VERY light orange country in Eastern Europe).

3. Africa:
- Holy Tuareg Empire (the greenish blob in West Africa).
- Kanem-Bornu (the yellow country around Lake Chad).
- Rhaptan Empire (the dark green country in East Africa).
- Zimbabwe (the black country).

4. Middle East:
- Chi Empire (in Central Asia).
- Ergutlid Persia (in Persia...).

5. India:
- Cahamana Empire (the big northern state).
- Kataka (puny greenish state in eastern India).
- Kakatiya (reddish state in central India).
- Hoysalas (orangish state in south-western India).
- Palavas (the bluish-purple state in southern India).
- Later Cholas (the purple state in Ceylon, with colonies and all that).

6. The Rest of Asia:
- Yuan China (the state in China, and lots of places besides).
- Bagan (in Burma).
- Khmeria (in Cambodia and Siam).
- Bantam (in Indonesia).

Primary regions of international tensions are North Vinland (the Dakotans seeking to conquer everyone, the New Vinlanders seeking to unite the four "Viking states" of North America, and some other stuff), Western Mediterranean (Norman Lusitania, Frankreich and Tuareg Empire threatening Aquitaine and the western Byzantine possessions), India (the powerful and agressive Cahamanas seek to unite it, and so do the somewhat weaker and more diplomatic Kakatiyans, who however don't want to conquer the Cahamanas themselves, instead wanting to build a great Deccanian empire) and South-East Asia (where Chola and Yuan clash with the local powers of Bagan, Khmeria and Bantam, and each other ofcourse).
 
What would I do without you das...I like how China rules almost half of the world, makes it easier for me to manage from a stats standpoint :p
 
oh, and when you decide to do stats, do them in the style of your current NES.
 
When do you need them, anyway?
 
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