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Alternate Leaders for revealed civs.

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by moysturfurmer, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. SebNeg

    SebNeg Chieftain

    Aug 21, 2016
    Arminius / Hermann of Germany

    Unique Ability: Furor Teutonicus

    "When defeating a barbarian tribe, you may convince them to join your empire."

    Spend :c5gold: to buy the favor of a defeated barbarian encampment (popup dialog when moving into it), and you will automatically found a new city in that spot and gain a small amout of culture (+20 :c5culture:).

    The gold cost depends on your current settler gold cost (50%). Buying an encampment increases the settler cost in the same way building/buying a settler does.

    Unique Unit: Cherusci Warrior

    Replaces the warrior. No increased movement cost :c5moves: for forrest terrain. +5 :c5strength: when defending in a forrest. +8 :c5strength: when attacking a unit in a forrest.
    FangoriousFae and Manifold like this.
  2. apocalypse105

    apocalypse105 Deity

    May 17, 2011
    France Napoleon

    and give him a bonus for government and civic tree.

    Like need less culture to advance through civic tree or allow to switch goverments for free...

    Napoleon wasnt only famous for his military but his reformation in civics
    FangoriousFae likes this.
  3. moysturfurmer

    moysturfurmer Emperor

    Mar 6, 2010
    Ooh, nice. Tack on "receives 'stealth' promotion when fortified in a forest" and you've got yourself a really devious unit. Autocorrect changed that from delicious but both are pretty accurate.
  4. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

    Apr 3, 2004
    Actually the DNA tests only prove that some member of his family had sex with the slave.... and as for his views.... honestly they aren't worse than any of the other leaders ...in the game or in real life.

    He would be a really interesting one with a
    "Manifest Destiny" UA due to the
    Louisiana Purchase/his 'yeoman farmer' ideal...
    Some combination of
    cheaper settlers (maybe free Settlers whenever he changes governments to a more advanced type..1 for 4 slot, 2 for 6 slot, 4 for 8 slot)
    Shoshone ability
    cheaper tile acquisition
    Builders can build farms in unclaimed tiles adjacent to your territory and claim the tile...
    farms give adjacency bonuses to districts..
    bonus culture whenever he switches governments.
  5. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

    Jun 29, 2007
    Yeah that narrative was pushed hard after the revolution, they didn't want to harp back to the Porfiriato because Diaz was (unjustly) painted as the "villian" of the revolution, so they ended up creating this utopian (and rather communist) vision of the Aztecs as precursors of everything Mexican, which doesn't make any sense if you read a bit of history. Luckily that idea has been dying down and Mexico promotes the more realistic idea of Mexico being a cultural melting pot for a whole bunch of cultures.

    Ok did some changes to your original idea (which I like) the GA points on kill is nice, but switched the extra food for better work of art yield. After all the Floating gardens should provide enough food and ammenities to get pretty large cities if the placing is right. Renamed Nahuatl Poetry to Bird of 400 voices the Aztecs related poetry to the Cenzontle (Mocking bird), and Nezahualcoyotl actually has a bunch of poems where he mentions it. Also renamed the Agenda to Toltec Ancestry the Acohluas were very proud about having retained their Toltec heritage much better than other Nahuatl newcomers (Mexicas for example), and Nezahualcoyotl took that heritage very seriously.

    So yeah, I'd love for a variation for tall gameplay for the Aztecs, as long as you get the right city spots you should be able to get massive cities, like in civ5 Aztecs.
  6. SebNeg

    SebNeg Chieftain

    Aug 21, 2016
    Frederick the Great of Germany

    Unique Capital: Potsdam

    Unique Ability: Dichter und Denker (thinkers and poets)

    Gain +1 :c5science: for every :c5culture: produced in the capital :c5capital:, and +1 :c5culture: for every :c5science: produced in the capital :c5capital:.

    Unique Improvement: Schlosspark (palace garden)

    +3 :c5culture:. Can only be built adjacent to a theater square. Requires fresh water. +2 :c5culture: for being adjacent to a wonder (does not stack).

    Unlocked by: The Enlightenment (late Renaissance civic).

    Appearance: Inspired by Sanssouci Park, but not too similar to the French château.


    Turn your capital into the world's center of arts and sciences - other cities may provide for the more mundane matters of life. Plan the layout of all your cities wisely or you may later discover that you cannot unlock the full potential of your Hansas and Schlossparks. Use your midgame culture boost to get ahead in civics and social policies.
  7. SebNeg

    SebNeg Chieftain

    Aug 21, 2016
    Very unlikely. In one of the live streams, the developers explicitly said that they added a cost to switching governments and policies in order to avoid excessive minmaxing.

    Imagine, you could switch whenever you want. In some situations, the optimal strategy may be to switch every turn or maybe even several times per turn. That would become tedious very quickly. :crazyeye:
  8. CornPlanter

    CornPlanter Emperor

    Dec 3, 2005
    Many leaders included in Civ did far worse than Jefferson, if judged by modern Western standards. Incomparably worse.

    I would really like to see Jefferson as a leader of US. Aside from him, what else... Marcus Aurelius was an interesting person and could give Rome a different direction in game. Ashoka, most definitely. Hulagu Khan, just for a change.
  9. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Judge of Love

    Oct 12, 2011
    Lana del Rey - American

    Unique Ability: National Anthem - Double culture improvements yield. All tiles surrounding wonders yield gold, faith and culture.

    Unique Unit: Cult Group - Replaces missionary. Loses atrition damage. Gives a culture boost when used as well

    Leader Agenda: Honeymoon - Likes civs with negative diplomatic score.
    daft likes this.
  10. BackseatTyrant

    BackseatTyrant Queer Anarchotranshumanist

    Jul 10, 2013
    One more for England...

    Spoiler :

    Sir Robert Walpole

    Leader Agenda: It Was Walpole
    Historically known for scheming his way to both power and monopoly, Walpole does not take it lightly when a city-state he has sent envoys to, chooses another major civilization than the English as their Suzerain.

    Unique Ability: Robinocracy
    As a Whig who chose to keep Great Britain out of war, and instead focus on domestic policies, Walpole provides the English Civilization during peace-time with one extra economic policy card slot and an extra diplomatic policy card slot.

  11. ehecatzin

    ehecatzin Emperor

    Jun 29, 2007
    Of course, it was Wallpole. :D
  12. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

    Jan 22, 2016
    London, England
    DdM over Napoleon? Why? Because that would be repetive? That would certainly appear to contradict your stance on Elizabeth being essential.

    Because you consider him a poor leader? Well, what makes CdM, whose sons likely did things without her say, a better leader?

    Or because he ultimately failed, losing his empire and rotting away in St Helena? Well, surely then that would rule out Boudicca and Harald Hardrada, who both died fighting unsuccessful wars. We've even had Joan of Arc, and look how well things worked out for her! Julius Caesar, Alexander, Pedro II, Haille Selassie and Oda Nobunga were all either killed or deposed, though I will admit that is not quite the same.

    Though I would choose some other leaders such as Louis XIV over Napoleon for the sake of variety, CdM is too much of a stretch for me.

    This one has to be a joke!

    A Civ game which had modern celebrities as leaders would be the Civ game I would not buy. I like history, not trashy modern pop-culture.
  13. moysturfurmer

    moysturfurmer Emperor

    Mar 6, 2010
    India - Ashoka - Kalinga Edicts: +5 combat strength against a civ the first time you fight them. Gain amenities proportionate to the amount of emeny units you killed/tiles you pillaged/war weariness upon declaring peace with that civ. Amenities last until YOU declare war/annex a foreign city.

    Gives India a fighty alternative while still keeping in line with the general peace/faith/growth theme.
    FangoriousFae likes this.
  14. moysturfurmer

    moysturfurmer Emperor

    Mar 6, 2010
    Rome - Julius Caesar - Melee units flanked by other melee units receive significant bonuses to defense (referring to the Auxillia). UU: Ballista - Stronher than he catapult it replaces.
  15. Ikael

    Ikael King

    Dec 2, 2005
    Well, since most civs have been already revealed, I now have the chance to reformulate, many many alternate leaders for said Civs. And now, let me take a deep breath and...

    >>> Nahualtcoyolt of the Aztec

    UA Nahualt poetry: +1 to great person yields in their respective districts, gains GP points for killing units. Unlocks the floating garden district

    Unique district: Floating gardens
    Replaces aqueduct. Food bonuses if placed next to districts, +4 housing if placed next to lakes or freshwater tiles, +4 housing if placed >over< a lake (cumulative effects)

    Agenda: Toltec ancestry. Likes civs with big cities, will dislike those who doesn't build wonders

    >>> Empress Ma of the Chinese

    UA: Dowager advice
    City centers doesn't count towards global district costs. Your land trade routes are harder to pillage. Unlocks the silk loom UB

    UB Silk loom: Can be built in either the industrial, cultural or commercial district. Generates the "silk robe" unique luxury. Generates culture and gold bonuses for your outgoing trade routes

    Agenda: Center of the world. Will like you if you possess luxuries that she doesn't. Will dislike you if you refuse to trade said luxuries with her

    >>> Hasheput of the Egyptians

    UA: Punt's expedition. Recieve a unique "sandalwood" luxury for each different city state that you trade with. Unlocks the ceremonial complex

    Unique district: Ceremonial complex. Replaces religious district. Recieves faith bonuses for being next to wonders, and production bonuses if placed over a non-floodplain desert

    Agenda: Will like you if you trade with her, will dislike you if you occuppy city states

    >>> Isabella of Spain

    UA: Carta de Indias

    Cities founded in another continents will be automatically converted to your faith and will generate extra amenities for your metropolis
    Discovering natural wonders in foreign continents grants you a free settler
    +1 to the basic yields of natural wonders (Example: If the Kilimanjaro gives +4 food and +2 faith, it will yield +5 food and +3 faith under the rule of Isabella)

    Agenda: Catholic monarchy Likes civilizations that shares her religion, dislikes civs who settles near natural wonders in foreign continents

    >>> George Washington of the USA

    UA "We, the people"
    X2 to the maximum capacity of the legacy bonuses of every goverment (ex: If oligarchy could end up giving +15% to wonder production, it could end up giving +30% under George Washington's rule when fully developed). Unlocks pioneer UU

    UU: Pioneer. Replaces settler. Can defend itself (strenght equivalent to a warrior), gets extra tiles when founding a city, and will downright steal land tiles if placed next to a foreign empire border

    Agenda: Tea revolt. Will like civilizations that wages just wars or that becomes the target of unfair ones. Will dislike civs that occuppy cities in continents other than their own

    >>> Napoleon, emperor of the French

    UA: Code napoleonique: Extra strenght to your units and culture from kills when fighting 10 hexes near a world wonder (yours of foreign). This UA's radious effect scales up or down according to map size. Unlocks the Dragoon UU

    UU: Dragoon. +100% to the great general adyacency bonuses, +5 strenght when fighting in open terrain

    Agenda: Exporting the revolution. Will like civilizations with low legacy goverment bonuses, will dislike civilizations that build wonders outside his continent

    >>> Julius Caesar of the Romans

    UA "Veni, vidi, venci": Julius caesar can form unit corps earlier than any other civ. Encampment district generates extra amenities for your cities. Unlocks the arballista UU

    UU Arballista: Replaces catapult. Deals extra damage against cities and districts, can deploy and attack on the same turn if it has enough movement points for doing it so

    Agenda: Secure the limes. Will dislike civs that share a border with him, will like civilizations that have small armies

    >>> Emperor Meiji of the Japanese

    UA: Mega-scalar industrial projects
    All your districts and wonders recieve production bonuses for being located next to sea resources (+1 production per adyacent resource). From the industrial era foward, you can place your districts and wonders over sea tiles. Unlocks the Satsuma battleship.

    UU: Satsuma battlesip. You can only have one at a time, as if it were a hero unit. In addition to be extremely powerful by itself, it gives combat bonuses to adyacent land and sea units

    Agenda: Asian prosperity sphere. Will like civs on his continent, will dislike civs that antagonize civilizations located on his continent

    >>> Louis XVI of the French

    UA: The Sun King's court. X2 to the yields of wonders in your capital and to their adyacency bonuses. Unlocks the Royal gardens district

    Unique district: Royal gardens.
    Replaces the cultural district. Increases terrain appeal in their tile and in every other surrounding tiles. Generates +1 tourism and food for each adyacent wonder

    Agenda: Ancienne regime. Will like civilizations with a high cultural ouput, will dislike civs with low goverment legacy bonuses

    >>> FDR of the USA

    UA: The new deal. Industrial, commercial, encampment and entertainement districts recieve major adyacency bonuses for being next to wonders (increasing production, gold, ranged strenght and tourism, respectively). Unlocks the air fortress UU.

    UU: Air Fortress. Extra defense against fighters and interception. Get an additional air fortress when building one (a la scythia's calvary production).

    Agenda: The arsenal of democracy. Will like civilizations that shares at least half of his specific policies, and dislike those who don't

    >>> Akbar the great of the Indians (or the Mughals, depending on how you define each civ)

    Akbar UA: Din-i Ilahi
    -50% resistance in occuppied cities
    +3 culture and +1 promotion to your units built in cities where there is more than one religion present. Unlocks the Tiger cannon and the Zamburak UU

    UU: Tiger cannon. Replaces cannon. Has one increased hex of splash damage, causes shellshock among enemy troops (will fight with decreased strenght after being bombarded by the tiger cannon). Will generate culture when stationed inside a city. Tiger cannons are more costly to produce than regular cannons, and can't traverse unpaved rough terrain

    UU: Zamburak. Does not replace any unit. Acts like a gunpowder version of a mounted archer, can move after attacking. Unlocks at gunpowder

    Agenda: The forging of an empire. Will dislike civilizations that have cities in his own continent, will like civilizations that have founded a religion

    Coming soon: Ashoka (India), Frederik the Great (Germany), Abderraman (Arabs), Catherine the Great (Russia), Augustus (Rome), and of course, more in-depth commentary about the rationale behind these previous designs.
  16. moysturfurmer

    moysturfurmer Emperor

    Mar 6, 2010
    Bravo Ikael, superb post. That George Washington (well, Pioneer UU) sounds absolutely terrible in the very best way. Would love to see a civ/leader like that.

    Was intentional that Akbar receive two UUs? Seems unprecedented.
  17. Ikael

    Ikael King

    Dec 2, 2005
    Wool, thanks, glad to see that you liked it! :D I do hope that modders could make indeed some alternate leaders along these lines.

    The Pioneer UU would be the ultimate wide-monger unit. The best thing is, that this unit would allow you to become an pain in the ass to your neighbours but they would need to be the ones to declare war upon you and be labelled as warmongers if they want to stop your expansionistic policy :D

    It was intentional indeed. Thing is, Akbar was a great conqueror, and the Mhugals's warfare tactics were unprecedent in the Indian continent. Perhaps rather than add, some of Akbar's UU should replace the Indian naru Elephant instead, for greater flavour.

    And now, let's expand into some of the alternate leaders:

    >>> Julius Caesar of the Romans

    UA "Veni, vidi, venci": Julius caesar can form unit corps earlier than any other civ. Encampment district generates extra amenities for your cities. Unlocks the arballista UU

    Well, he doesn't need any kind of introduction, does he? He's one of the most famed leaders of the entire human history. Cunning and great at both warfare and peacful administration, Caesar's "veni, vidi, venci" allows Rome to have the most powerful army of the world since turn one.

    Not only that, but the extra amenities provided by the encampent will allow him to keep his popullation content even with all his warmongering and expansionistic policies: He was a great ruler with a penchant for triumph and public games afterall.

    UU Ballista: Replaces catapult. Deals extra damage against cities and districts, can deploy and attack on the same turn if it has enough movement points for doing it so

    The ultimate unit for synergizing with Rome's uniques: Build roads towards your enemies and deploy your arballistas in the same turn. The extra city / district damage will force your enemies to take an agressive approach when dealing with you, and force you to meet you in the open rather than relying on fortifications and walls.

    Agenda: Secure the limes. Will dislike civs that share a border with him, will like civilizations that have small armies

    And now, this is the best part of all. Having Rome at your borders will mean big, big problems for you. And the Rome blob will keep expanding ad aeternam, since Caesar will always identify a new enemy (neighbour) after he has destroyed the last one. The only way to appeasae him? Disarm yourself, or else.

    So, how would you deal with Caesar? Will you try to play nice and pacifist, knowing that he will eventually reach you? (unless you are very, very far away from him)? Or do you prepare for the gathering storm, defying the power of Rome since the very beggining?
  18. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    May 7, 2007
    Cardinal Richelieu of France.

    France's powerful and respected prime minister created a strong central French government and was legendary enough to be portrayed as a Machiavellian villain in the Three Musketeers. Father of the modern French nation-state, the modern secret service, and a loyal royal servant, Richelieu was a formidable power who crushed local nobility and increased taxes, but also made significant cultural and diplomatic gains for France. His focus on centralized power paved the way for Louis XIV, whose famous statement "I am the State" really owed much to the crushing of nobility that Richelieu executed.

    Leader ability: Chief Minister. Gains an extra spy upon entering the Renaissance era. Increased unhappiness, but higher production, culture and gold in native-settled French cities. Can reduce unhappiness (but not gain extra happiness) in domestic cities based upon number of troops and spies in a city.

    Agenda: Red Eminence. Often creates spies and respects those with high level of diplomatic visibility. (Richelieu was known for creating a vast network of spies in France and Europe (unlike Catherine de Medici, whose spy network of the Flying Squadron was solely a national spy network)).

    Other abilities should remain the same (civ ability). Richelieu, like Catherine de Medici, was a ruthless de-facto ruler, invested heavily in spies and culture, and was head of France in a turbulent time. He is, however, more respected than Catherine de Medici as a French ruler, having a wing of the Louvre Museum, four battleships of the French Navy, as well as streets and towns named after him.
    Manifold likes this.
  19. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

    May 14, 2016
    Terok Nor
    I'd have loved to see Richelieu in place of de Medici, but as it stands her abilities and agenda are essentially what Richelieu's would have been. Given that, I'd prefer to see a French ruler who is as unlike CdM as possible: Louis XIV, Louis IX, Francis I, Philippe Augustus, etc.
  20. The Kings Raven

    The Kings Raven Chieftain

    Aug 28, 2016
    England: Winston Churchill

    Ability: Miracle at Dunkirk

    Melee units outside your territory gain 33% chance to retreat instead of being destroyed. If they retreat they gain a bonus movement point on their next turn and can embark for free. Melee units in your territory heal faster.

    Churchill also gains the Spitfire unique unit which has increased strength and starts with a promotion that makes it better at intercepting.

    Agenda: Home Fit for Heroes

    Churchill wants to have lots of amenities and high production in his cities. He likes other empires who also have lots of amenities. He dislikes empires who have large armies and a shortage of amenities at the same time and he loathes empires that bully smaller empires or city states.

    England: Margaret Thatcher

    Ability: Strike Breaker

    Commercial hubs placed on or adjacent to strategic resources generate extra gold, provided that resource is not actually being produced. (So for example, commercial hub will generate extra gold while adjacent to a tile containing Iron and no improvement or any tile improvement other than a mine).

    Thatcher has access to several one unique building per Strategic Resource. Iron Stockpile, Oil Stockpile, etc. They cannot be built, only brought with gold, and go in a commercial hub. Each stockpile grants 4 units of the relevant resource, but after 30 turns the building is automatically destroyed.

    Agenda: No Such Thing as Community

    Thatcher wants to generate lots of gold per turn, however she doesn't worry about stockpiling it. Secondary to gold per turn Thatcher also wants to create science. Thatcher dislikes empires who put more effort into culture or faith than they do into creating gold.

    And a couple of joke leaders.

    England: Nigel Farage

    Ability: Brexit

    Nigel can ignore World Congress resolutions and gains bonus amenities for every still active resolution he has broken at least once. However this annoys other world leaders.

    Agenda: Take Back Control

    Nigel strongly dislikes other empires that convert his citizens and vote against him in the world congress. However he has a soft spot for the underdog and likes weak empires, especially if they're bullied by stronger empires.

    America: Donald Trump

    Ability: Make America Great Again

    Industrial districts increase the appeal of any tile adjacent to them and gain a small production and culture adjacency bonus from neighbourhoods.

    Trump specialises in using outdated government types. He adds an extra Economic and Wildcard policy slot to Classical Republic/Oligarchy/Autocracy when he unlocks one of Monarchy, Theocracy, or Merchant Republic and extends that bonus to Monarchy, Theocracy, or Merchant Republic when he unlocks Democracy, Communism, or Fascism

    Trump gains access to a unique tile improvement called The Wall. It blocks movement by all civilian units from other empires except caravans.

    Agenda: Populist Strong Man

    Donald Trump likes to have large production and large armies. He respects empires that also have large production and armies. Trump despises empires that favour faith over culture.
    FangoriousFae and daft like this.

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