Alternate Timeline Building Experiment, v1.0

alex994 · Jul 29, 2008

human-slaughter said:
Well, in that case I am very unsure how 90% of a very prosperous and strong nation were defeated and made basically obsolete by a 10% minority. I mean it doesent make much sense to me that the people are just letting foreign influences make their way in. Mavan culture is centered around their roots in the Mediterranean and their religion that would most likely be the pride of the Mavan culture considering it is being surround by pagans of the north and this African religion in the south, west and east.

Not to mention in one Era they are humbled by the "superior might" of the technologically inept and barbarious tribes from the north and west. So im hoping you can understand my stance and how my Mavan culture has been humbled to nothing but a financial institution and leaders that are meaningless to this 10% that have hogtied the 90% that are smarter, have better technology and have the pride of a culture centuries old. Once again this is your game and you write it however you want.

Perhaps I will keep the nation of "Saratia" for one last era to see what happens.

OOC: @Iggy, human slaughter, well now all of you see how we Chinese felt losing to those primitive steppe nomads

Except it happened much more frequently and we were a lot stronger, bigger and more numerous than the Mavan culture :mischief:

Crezth · Jul 29, 2008

alex994 said:
OOC: @Iggy, human slaughter, well now all of you see how we Chinese felt losing to those primitive steppe nomads Except it happened much more frequently and we were a lot stronger, bigger and more numerous than the Mavan culture

OOC: Alex is absolutely right here. Sometimes weird stuff happens in history. -Nobody- expected the Mongolian hordes and they dominated all of Asia. We should only be so lucky that the parallel hasn't happened in our line. The least we can expect then is barbarian hordes shaking the foundations of civilization. The Romans, by all rights, outnumbered the Huns, but there were all kinds of other factors that limited their ability to defend themselves. Same with the Chinese and the Mongols, and with your people and theirs, human-slaughter. What can I say? Stuff happens.

LightFang · Jul 29, 2008

That's exactly right, h-s. History, you know, is dominated by randomness. Try reading The Black Swan. Though it's not specifically a history book, it touches on the topic of randomness and why people are essentially blind to huge events that nobody suspects. Examples he lists are the rise of religions, 9/11, and the rise of Google.

[/plug]

Lord_Iggy · Jul 29, 2008

Yes, and as I said, it's quite likely that the conquerors of the Voresian Empire will assimilate into its culture, though I assure you that I will try to avoid that.

human-slaughter · Jul 29, 2008

@ Light Fang I don't read unless it revolves around my continued financial support in receiving education.

History Lessons huh?

Well I have seen two categories of explanations here: OTL History & Random Events

OTL History:

Comparing China and the Roman downfall to Mavan culture Downfall is quite incorrect. The Empires of China and Rome were huge far flung empires that spanned from Korea to Indochina and Britain to North Africa, respectively. Voresia at its pinnacle spread from tiny colonies in Iberia horizontally to Greece with barely a full grasp on Italy. So in that aspect we will say Voresia did not have the problems that China and Rome did in maintaining enormous empires. We did not have to deal with rebellious uprisisings during a war with barbarous invaders (Rome). And we certainly did not spend our treasury on frivolous Treasure Fleets and place our confidence in regional governors during a war with barbarous invaders (China).

In fact the goals of the years before our downfall were, as I remember (I don't have the patience to go look), to consolidate and befriend those guys in Turkey.

So as you can see (if you still would like to compare us to OTL history I can do nothing more) there was no reason for the faltering in our governmental system and downfall of our superior army/navy/technology but chance.

Which brings us to...

Random Events:

There is nothing I can say to this but it was too random and not coinciding with what would happen to a regular nation of this type in OTL. Obviously this was the decision of the mod and no one else's, we could make an argument that it is Iggy's fault but I don't care. Daft has ended all of his updates with his want for input and discussion. As such i am placing my input into this NES. You may call it criticism and you would be right. However, I have a right to post this criticism and reply to other replys as the Mod has not asked me to cease discussion of the matter.

@ Daft: At any time if you feel I am cluttering/spamming your very ingenious NES (Do not mistake this for sarcasm). I will cease and continue playing peacefully and without interruption.

The Defense rests.

Prosecution load your cannons.

alex994 · Jul 29, 2008

human-slaughter said:
And we certainly did not spend our treasury on frivolous Treasure Fleets and place our confidence in regional governors during a war with barbarous invaders (China).

OOC:

hahahahahaha, no. The Treasure Fleet, despite being expensive, was nothing in the long run compared to the ruinous wars of the Ming Dynasty. Also, by steppe nomads I do not only refer to the Mongols and the Manchus (who weren't really steppe nomads, more like partially sinified) but the earlier ones as well such as the powerful Xiongnu, Xia-Xia, Jurchens and their ilk.

Nothing, NOTHING lasts forever. To say that your Empire/Kingdom should be strong FOREVER, that the Mavan culture will also be in charge of themselves is an incorrect statement. Because let's face it, for the same reasons that you believe should spare your former culture from their conquest are the same reasons that they will be conquered, and probably forgotten. A small nation such as yours should have been conquered and crushed a long time ago, your superior technology crumbling against superior economics.

Daftpanzer · Jul 29, 2008

@human-slaughter, I assure you it wasn't entirely random, or abstract bias against long-lasted states! Although, I had envisioned some 'societal entropy' after around 1000 years of existence of both the empire and its religion (the imperial ideal seemingly not developed to the same height as OTL Rome or Byzantium, and no real allies sharing the same religion). And at the same time the empire was under attack from almost all sides, including Yansala which was probably most energetic empire at that time. The Varas Kingdom was already semi-assimilated, and had the only army left standing, so I imagined its leaders were able to coerce/liberate/conquer/restore the empire.

@flyingchicken, those flags are really cool

@all, my brain is scrambled from multiple hours of obsessive fiddling with the map, so I won't be writing up details tonight. I can however post the map, and list of who-owns-what:

(I'm afraid I have done this while ignorant of the last few posts, due to not being able to get online whenever I want, but only for short periods in the evenings... With no new orders yesterday, after warning the day before that things were already pretty much decided, I had assumed there would be no more...)

This takes us up to 1475 AD, or possibly a bit further if I change my mind.

Spoiler Ownage :

qoou · Jul 29, 2008

Very interesting. Looking forward to the update very much. Yay for being first on the list

!

Edit: The Leav kingdom isn't on the list?

Symphony D. · Jul 29, 2008

Intrude: The Amazon basin is hugely under-represented compared to what's occurring elsewhere. Terra preta, terra preta!

Abaddon · Jul 29, 2008

Damn, now there is a cool thing. Thanks for the link SD.

Crezth · Jul 29, 2008

Aestian Empire? Gleee! =D Sad to see little Amestris gone down by the wayside, but then again the Aestians have ze noble BLOOD ov our people.

Looking very much forward to update!

Luckymoose · Jul 29, 2008

Holy crap I think I did something right.

KrimzonStriker · Jul 29, 2008

I fragmented? Great.... >_>

Luckymoose · Jul 30, 2008

Who will bow to their new ruler?

LightFang · Jul 30, 2008

Ugh, that's disgusting, what is this Zhou business?

flyingchicken · Jul 30, 2008

Zhou came out of the blue!

I find it jarring and distasteful (considering the names we've used in Eurasia--not too sure about the Americas--so far).

Terrance888 · Jul 30, 2008

Holy **** What happened to my beloved Zarimen?

:eek:

That must be a lot of land grabs! OPPERTUNIST land grabs!

Also, why isn't Varakan Mine?

Ninja Dude · Jul 30, 2008

Well, atleast I got the Kriliks out of Asia. I'm not sure how well the Kaj and Shyin cultures are going to do.

Luckymoose · Jul 30, 2008

Charles Li said:
Holy **** What happened to my beloved Zarimen?

That must be a lot of land grabs! OPPERTUNIST land grabs!

Also, why isn't Varakan Mine?

Because I conquered the hell out of Zarimen that's why.

mythmonster2 · Jul 30, 2008

Ooooh, looks nice.

Alternate Timeline Building Experiment, v1.0

Hail Divine Emperor!

i knew you were a real man of the left

"I'm the hero!"

Tsesk'ihe

brand new year

Hail Divine Emperor!

canonically ambiguous

Emperor

Deity

Deity

i knew you were a real man of the left

The World is Mine

Master of the Dawn

The World is Mine

"I'm the hero!"

Deity

Discord Reigns

Sorry, I wasn't listening...

The World is Mine

BEC NOIR! RUN!

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