Always Peace

DWetzel · Jun 16, 2008

"Did I miss Code of Laws?"

See end of Turn 1: "I decide to relieve Sumeria of their gold, selling them Code of Laws for all 233 of their gold. (I hope they will research Republic for us.)" They then disseminated it, as part of the Mapmaking/Construction trades.

Reason for trading with Sumeria and Persia first is that we can get techs + gold from them, and put them in a position to get even MORE techs to us. Getting Liz's gold will not be an issue, even if she is the last to get Currency from us she will buy it for her cash without an issue. I don't want to devalue Currency by selling it to her first, before we've traded for the techs that are worth more than her gold.

DWetzel · Jun 16, 2008

Oh, and Rouen is at the top of the three lakes. I think it would work fine. We could also get frisky and put it in Besancon, which will, eventually, be a very nice town--but for now is pretty corrupt.

i like pies · Jun 16, 2008

i have never actually finished a game its kind of embarassing

i like pies · Jun 16, 2008

oh and can u tell me how to get the **** avatar (i put the stars there)

Spoonwood · Jun 16, 2008

Alright, I'll go with your trading plan, with one exception. *Everyone* will get Currency the first turn one way or another. This will actually end up helping us, since they research slower than we do, we'll sell tech to them for gpt soon enough. Marseilles of Besancon (or whatever we call the middle lake town two squares below the game) should build the FP. Its greatest benefit comes from increasing our optimal city number, so it'll decrease corruption empire-wide. We'll forego reseraching The Republic and go with researching the top part of the medieval tree. Could we even get to education before the GL gets built??? I'll play later tonight.

Spoonwood · Jun 16, 2008

Alright, I started playing, but I thought I'd stop and we'd talk this over first. The trading went very well. Rouen or Amiens or Marseilles can go for the FP when ready.

Spoiler :

Pre-turn I switched Orleans to spearman, then workers for a long, long time. It has a granary and we can worker it down to size 6 and keep on with workers from there. I switched Rheims to a worker. I switched Poitiers to worker... we don't need raxes (adamant on this one)!

1. Trade Sumeria Currency and RoP for Construction and 92 gold.
2. Trade Persia Currency for Map Making and RoP. Persia and Sumeria both have Engineering. Sumeria won't give us the Monarchy deal, Xerxes will. So, I trade Persia Monarchy for Engineering.
3. Build embassy with Lizzie, she has ToA due in 51. Build embassy with Gandhi, he has ToA due in 36.
4. Trade Lizzie Currency for 164 gold and RoP.
5. Trae Inca Currency for 107 gold and RoP.
6. Trade RoP with Gandhi and we get his gold piece. I gift Gandhi Currency.
All attitudes now to Polite.

I check the research and see we can have Monotheism in 21 turs at 80% or The Republic in 16 at 80% and still make a little money. I'd suggest we not do deficit research yet, because we have A LOT of embassies to build with the rest of the world stil AND they will cost a pretty penny since they lie far away, no doubt. From my count we have 22 cities already. I think we can *easily* do this with 22 cities, no sweat really. So, I feel fine revolting at any time now. I just remembered that you hoped they would research The Republic for us.

Then again, do we want to wait for that? I guess they had started on Currency until we traded it to them or they started in on Literature... so what will they research now... and do we want to wait possibly more than 16 turns if they do reserach The Republic? I want your input, before I play on... and if you want to pick the pace of this game up, I'll give you another ten right now with the save, or I'll take the next ten... your call. Lyons should go library and then probably GL as a pre-build on Sun Tzu's or the Sistine Chapel. Paris would work well for more workers, but I think that once it finishes off with settlers, we should have it go for maybe something like a library... perhaps a market too... and then wonders.

DWetzel · Jun 17, 2008

I think it's your turns to play if you want to.

Well... too bad they both got Engineering, but them's the breaks.

I would research Monotheism right now. Someone will pick up Republic before too long, and I want to get to Education pretty fast if we can to keep our research rate sky-high. Getting Theology will let us use Sistine as a prebuild (or as a real build, but I think we'll have better options). I don't understand the desire for Sun Tzu at all, unless you are talking about that as a prebuild. If you really really want Republic quickly, I won't hold it against you though. With a nice cash situation,

I think I agree that we're close to being done with setters (maybe crank one or two more out of Orleans before using it for workers), and I definitely agree it's time to turn Paris into a real city and not a settler pump, after the current once completes. The hills around it mean it's a prime wonder town, but even before that we want it libraried at the very least (probably temple/market too). I see Paris as the right spot for Copernicus/Newton's, with some other city building Smith's for the golden age. Lyons is the obvious choice for that.

I'm fine with switching away from barracks. My only comment is that if we do build Knights Templar, that one town should get a barracks. (And I want one around SOMEWHERE to upgrade the horses to knights when we can.) Rheims has a mined BG that should go to Amiens if Rheims is spitting out a worker. In fact, until we get the land around Rheims semi-worked, it should maybe just take two roaded/unmined grasslands and work at 10 turn workers, and let Amiens have both the mined tiles that Rheims works right now.

This sort of preludes to "I think I'd build the FP in Amiens, after the library completes". It doesn't need an aqueduct, it's pretty productive, it's centrally located... I call that a winner.

Marseilles needs an aqueduct, I think, now that we have Construction. It will never have a lot of shields, but there is no reason it can't grow pretty much unfettered for a while.

I might swap Besancon to a temple, too. The culture pressure might be a nice feature. Your call.

Avignon should not work the iron hill, as it's too corrupt.

DWetzel · Jun 17, 2008

"With a nice cash situation, " ... getting to Republic quickly might be worth it. That's what I was going to say.

Spoonwood · Jun 17, 2008

"I don't understand the desire for Sun Tzu at all, unless you are talking about that as a prebuild."

I don't want any funny wonder cascades going on/pre-build on perhaps Knights Templar. We'd also have raxes everywhere, making upgrades very easy. Leo's also comes as another 600 shield-wonder that seems useless for a builder to construct, but since it costs 600 shields also creates funny wonder cascades if you let the AI build it.

"My only comment is that if we do build Knights Templar, that one town should get a barracks."

Those sorts of barracks I can understand.

Spoonwood · Jun 17, 2008

I don't think I can post the save today due to the system... but I'll try.

Spoiler :

1-430 Paris-settler-library, Orleans-speaman-settler, Poitiers-worker-library, Mono. due in 22, chop for Rouen, settlers more around.

2-410 Mareilles-library-aqueduct, Bayonne-worker-library, worker chop near Poitiers, move worker stack to chop near Lyons for its library, Rheims siwtches worker to settler, fortify spear in Lyons, Dijon switches to spearman.

3-390 Found New Paris-library, found New Orleans-warrior, micromanage Grenoble, found New Lyons-worker, found New Rheims-library

4-370 Orleans-settler-workers, Amiens-library-FP, Mono. in 15. Sumeria has Monarchy. I love Gilgamesh... he's the easiest one to defeat. All AIs should pattern themselves after his behavior... wait... they do... it's just... he has a more expansive escort, so he expands slower than everyone else. He also has more expensive libraries, so he researches slower than everyone else. Oh... and he grows slower than everyone else. Invert this, and I think you have an argument as to why the Sumerians may well come out the best tribe for the AI... on average.

5-350 Persia starts MoM.

6-330 Orleans-worker-worker, English start Great Lighthouse, Besancon and Rouen use tax collectors since switching to scientists doesn't get us to monotheism faster. Reserach up to 90% as we'll only lose 1 gold per turn with the tax collectors. I micromanage Paris so it grows faster. Warriors move from town to town so our new southern town has a warrior.

7-310 Persia turns back... or south? Lyons-library-Great Library (it has a temple and the HG for 4 content faces). Grenoble-market-granary. We can use the wheat that the tundra town currently uses in Grenoble as another worker factory. Dijon-spear-worker. Found New Tours-library.

8-290 Orleans-worker-worker. Cherbourg-galley-worker. Sumerian archer moves within our territory. Aztecs complete ToA... here it comes!! Germans complete MoM. Zulus complete GW. Romans complete GL (not GLB... GL).

9-270 forest out near New Paris planted for a chop, since it's very corrupt.

10-250 Paris-library-marketplace. Orleans-worker-worker. Spot Juli (Incan town) in between New Paris and the other towns. I think we'll need suicide runs with curraghs and our galley. Your call on where to try for them.

Later: the system has come back on-line

DWetzel · Jun 17, 2008

Doug,

Check your PMs, especially if you get this in the next hour or two.

DWetzel · Jun 17, 2008

Played 15 turns (sorry, I got into it, even though not much is happening). Not sure what the AI scientists are doing, but I suspect you will find out.

I put a little more emphasis on military (for reasons explained herein) this turnset; we are doing so well (IMO) that I thought a little safety-first with a minor military buildup would be wise. All is still right with the world.

Preflight, 250 BC:

CA2, Notepad.

Rheims from settler to horse as I don't know where we would put the settler. Avignon to work iron hill (now 2 spt). Besancon market - temple (for happiness issues).
Set Orleans as a 3-turn worker factory, giving the mined BGs to Toulouse. This will keep Orleans at size 4. Some MMing required.
Cherbourg worker-harbor.
MM New Rheims and Dijon for commerce.

Military check: we are average to everyone except Sumeria, who we are weak to. I think we may want to try to maintain average if we can; this will keep the AI from thinking they can pick on us. Hence the Rheims switch. I think I will spew a few spears out of there soon.

I do want ONE barracks somewhere soon to upgrade units. Don't know where but Rouen or Marseilles seems a good choice due to central location.

Hit Enter.

Spoiler :

Update: Theology in 5 at 80% science (+8 gpt, 673g in bank). Can change to 4 turns at -12 gpt (I would not).

Forbidden Palace in 15 but will shave off a turn on growth, may be worth it to shave off another turn now by switching to a forest.

Great Library due in 17, but I assume this is a prebuild. Sistine?

After Cathedral, Paris should start prebuild for Cop's. We're only two techs away.

If we want it, England has a slave and 195g for Monarchy. I haven't but I think it's a good deal.

Worker priorities (not necessarily in order):

Grenoble needs a couple of forests in the tundra.
Finish off Paris improvements.
If you want to join workers, Lyons is primed for that (will add shields).
Much choppy around New Lyons area.

We have 26 workers and 10 slaves. I ALMOST feel like that's enough for now.

Other priorities:
CONTACTS! Pretty please. I've had awful luck with boats. I would keep the one curragh (near India) safe and just explore the entire coast. I have galleys coming as fast as I can from Cherbourg; keep that up and just make suicide runs. We ARE only two techs from Astronomy though, so keep that in mind.

Trades: We can now trade with Inca, Persia, Sumeria. Persia is the one with the gpt (mid-20s at last check). The others are broke. I would not trade our techs for that amount of gpt, at least not right now. They have to be close to researching SOMETHING, and there's a 2/3 chance it's good for us (Feudalism or Republic).

Military: I'd keep Marseilles on horse duty (or do swords/spears, your call). SOME military is worth it. I may have gone overboard--then again we are still weak to Sumeria.

Techs: No sign of any tech from the AI on my turnset. I am certain that one or more of them is researching Republic and should get it soon. I'd also bet on Feudalism (as the AI loves that one). The AI have NO wonder builds going at the moment.

Keep an eye on Paris, it's about to go to size 10 and will need a taxman or scientist after next turn. As it's already kicking out 16 spt I don't mind.
May want to look at MMing of Besancon/Rouen area; Besancon has a chop going but it may be worthwhile to mine that plains afterwards. It needs every bit of the shields it has to get 5 spt; if it can't keep that up it would have to take one of Rouen's mined BGs.

If you want to you can speed the FP up by 2 turns by switching to a forest. Would still grow at 1fpt; growth in 14 instead of 7, FP in 13. Might be worth it.

Once Feudalism is spotted, maybe start Marseilles on the Knights Templar prebuild?

As soon as we get Republic, I'd revolt. Nothing worth waiting on.

DWetzel · Jun 17, 2008

Oh, and check your email (in about 2 minutes) for the save.

Spoonwood · Jun 18, 2008

"I think we may want to try to maintain average if we can; this will keep the AI from thinking they can pick on us. Hence the Rheims switch. I think I will spew a few spears out of there soon."

Shakes head. Alrighty, if you want to. Maybe this works differently since its a continents map and the AIs have fewer neighbors to war with... and fewer ones who really want a war... but from my Deity pangea game I currently have going on, I feel sure my military advisor would have told me we were "weak" for centuries. I didn't build a single mounted warrior until after Feudalism... I had no horses and had to trade for them. I didn't get attacked. In fact, it seemed like Scandinavia walked right on past looking for a war, found the Celts and declared war on them. Peace came a bit later... they walked on my territory back home, and Ragnar Lodbrok told them to go fight another war... so they scampered back over the Iroquois lands and found someone else to fight. Of course, then everyone else ganged up on them, and by the middle of the industrial age (I've started researching Steel) they have a few measly towns left. But, we'll go with some more spears. Archers would raise our military strength, according to the AI advisor, faster than spears. Maybe we should build catapults or trebuchets (can't remember which tech these come with), since we can use them to bombard units anywhere. I'd favor that much more so. I've liked combined arms attacks, the little I've fought.

"I do want ONE barracks somewhere soon to upgrade units."

Alright, but I want cash to go to embassies first.

"The Sumerians have a couple units around, and that archer took a strange left turn. Maybe I'm paranoid."

Maybe... not a bad trait to have for a civ player though. Everytime I feel paranoid (and no one has declared war on me), I'll take a deep breath and probably look at this screenie again http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180306&d=1213573884 I still can't get enough of that one... sorry if it seems like I gloat or something.

"Perhaps I am just paranoid about Sumeria. But I sell them dyes for 62 gold (all they have)."

Eh... we made *a little* cash and kept the AI happy. I won't argue with that one.

"Chartres spear-sword (what else does it really need?)"

If you spoke seriously... does it has a temple, library, and marketplace already? It probably doesn't need a courthouse if I remember its location... believe it or not I say put a colosseum in there or pre-build a cathedral (or pre-build another of the Medieval wonders). A colosseum and/or cathedral will get rid of the unhappy citizens and perhaps create a "we love the leader day" effect to bottom out corruption. Also, it gives us more content citizens, which increases score. Failing all that, we could also have it just go for wealth.

"Grenoble granary-horse."

I don't get that one. At all. Build military if you like, but build workers or settlers to go for the northwestern jungle land from a town with a granary.

"Sumerian horse-settler pair outside Besancon. (What, did they run out of Enkidus?)"

Yeah... THAT I find wack.

"I get 6 of it, plus 65 gold shipping and handling, for incense."

YAY! Or as the crusader would say "YEAH!"

"I do want SOME fast-response military in case of disaster. "

Sure, sounds like a plan.

"I have to give Sumeria 2g. However, Persia gives 67g, England 25g."

Gotta love that little extra cash from Emperor RoPs

"Paris temple-cathedral (prebuild?)."

Sure.

"Great Library due in 17, but I assume this is a prebuild. Sistine?"

Sounds good, but read on.

"After Cathedral, Paris should start prebuild for Cop's."

With what??? Paris has a colosseum or courthouse as its "pre-build." If it builds a cathedral, a colosseum won't come out useful, in Paris, until post-sanitation, so that seems to imply Paris goes Cathedral-Sistine. Or Cathedral-Sistine-Copernicus when available (maybe that's your suggestion). Hopefully in 17 or so turns Feudalism shows up and then Lyons switches to Sun Tzu's and we basically have wonder lock the rest of the game. We don't want a Suz Tzu's-Copernicus or Leo's-Copernicus or Leo's-Newton's cascade, so build them all.

"The AI have NO wonder builds going at the moment."

You mean the ones near us, of course.

The turns look fairly good overall. I'll keep the coasts on little else but galleys, and perhaps even buy some if the revolution goes quickly enough. I'll wait on selling tech to Persia, even though their gold does look juicy. I'll try and micromanage not to lose population and have revolts during the revolution. I won't add in workers until post-revolution or leave that up to you. I'll play tommorow morning, and we can already post saves/screenies here again

Sorry if the quoting and responding seems to come out badly. I like to read and respond as I write, so I remember what I wanted to say/originally thought when I read.

DWetzel · Jun 18, 2008

Excellent point on the "no AI near us building wonders" thing. That does raise some issues. Would LOVE to get contacts, but... gah. I suspect north off India or east off Inca is where to go. Which sucks for us.

Paris needs the cathedral for happiness (it's that or the lux slider). After that it doesn't need anything else (except a university, but I see that being a cash-rush in between wonders).

I'm completely confident that we can have Feudalism during your turnset--three different AI have been researching SOMETHING for the last 25 turns, but we haven't seen it. They almost can't help but finish soon. I just hope they split up and someone went for Republic.

Assuming we get Feudalism, I see Paris on a Sun Tzu as prebuild for Cop's. Cop's is 400 shields; that's 25 turns at its current 16 spt, and realistically about 22 turns when it gets to work another hill. IF we can get Republic soon, we can get to Astronomy in less than that. Especially with the Forbidden Palace. I messed with CivAssist last night; in Republic, with the FP in Amiens, we would just over DOUBLE our current science output. (To maintain cash flow we would drop science to 70%, which still gives us about an 80% increase in science.)

That's also why I held off on selling Monotheism to Persia for their 40gpt; we have a monopoly on that and we need it as trade bait. My hope is that we can get Feudalism AND Republic during your turnset for just Monotheism (and maybe Literature, if we must).

I just hate to build the Great Library when we will get zero benefit from it. I'd rather have Sun Tzu's. But we would need Sistine (also 600 shields) also to kill off the wonder chain anyway, and I'd rather have that most of all.

In summary: Lyons = Sistine
Paris = Sun Tzu (for Cop's)
Marseilles = Knight Templar prebuild semi-soon (could become Sun Tzu instead if techs don't work out), since that's where the barracks is

We will also want to figure out where to put Smith's for the Golden Age, though that can wait a little bit.

Spears would be better than archers. Not for right now, of course, but for musketeer upgrades. You get me one musketeer per city, and I promise I'll be less paranoid until tanks show up.

And I agree not to upgrade units unless we really need to. I'd rather have the embassies too.

Sumeria is our biggest (ONLY, I think) threat right now. They have the Pyramids, keep in mind, so we REALLY hate them. They are dismissive of our culture, and strong militarily, and in my experience that's a bad combination--which is why I'm paranoid. The only saving grace is that we have managed to keep both them and Persia away from iron, which means no knights, swords, or MI for them. It also means they have a LOT of horses running around. (During my turnset, the galleys/curraghs usually spotted at least three horses running around with nothing to do in Sumeria.)

Chartres had a library and market, but no temple, when I built the one sword. It got a temple after that. A temple would not have created WLTKD, or prevented unhappiness, so I didn't see the need to spend upkeep on a temple.

We're up to trebuchets (those come with Engineering). I wouldn't mind a few of those.

Persia had pretty well expanded up the coast, and Sumeria has three settler pairs on the way. I've given up on new cities outside our borders, unless we can find an island somewhere via Astronomy.

Astronomy brings an interesting point--it may not be worth suicide runs with galleys. Depending on what the curragh finds up north-northeast. Just build a few galley for upgrade to caravels in Cherbourg, and then fan out from there. I'd say the current galley can make a run for it but then we stockpile. Harbortown should not build galleys yet--it should finish temple (culture expansion for whales), then get harbor, and only then consider ships.

Spoonwood · Jun 18, 2008

From my turnset I made some premature comments last night. Hopefully you ignored them or will figure them out as nonsense

.

"I'm completely confident that we can have Feudalism during your turnset--three different AI have been researching SOMETHING for the last 25 turns, but we haven't seen it. They almost can't help but finish soon. I just hope they split up and someone went for Republic."

Believe it or not, this didn't happen, nor have they gotten The Republic yet. I suspect it has something to do with them not having repbulic or literature. We need 8 more turns on Education, and with these slouches and the Sistene Chapel due in 24 I almost wonder if we should go Democracy. We could go Astronomy-Banking-Printing Press-Democracy and just revolt there. We'd probably finish off Copernicus's before then (I don't see a Sun Tzu's-Copernicus cascade happening... at least on our continent). Sure, more turns of the waste of despotism... but it might make this game a little more interesting. Something to consider.

Paris has a cathedral already and has the Great Library as its prebuild.

I didn't build anymore military, I think we have a good bit already. I don't see tanks showing up in this game, unless we build them. I didn't realize you then built a temple in Chatres. The cathedral... especially with Sistine's Chapel... can create a WLKTD effect and you need a temple for that... that's what I meant.

Harbourtown went temple-library... more culutural pressure on that Persian city.

Spoiler :

Screenies and the save.

DWetzel · Jun 18, 2008

Got it. I see a few changes I'll make from the screenies and your description, but nothing major. You may get a record turnaround time on this one.

(Notably, Harbourtown will get, well, a harbor. That Persian city will be doing bupkus for a long time with no forest to work--1spt forever. The harbor will help Harbourtown grow a lot, especially with the two whales coming into its radius.

Stupid, stupid AI... I hope they aren't all researching Monotheism...

Nice palace!

Spoonwood · Jun 18, 2008

That Persian town has already expanded culturally.

DWetzel · Jun 18, 2008

Duly noted.

I still switched to a harbor there.

Played 8 turns (until end of Education). Ran into one snag, but I think/hope you will approve of my solution. Stopped as we have a research decision.

Oh, and new rule. I am never allowed to touch our boats. Ever. Or at least until Navigation.

Harbourtown temple-harbor for reasons already stated. I do see that the Persian city did get a cultue pop somehow (cash rush). Still, growth > culture there right now, I think. Persia is last in overall culture, I'm not worried about our city flipping. It may be nice if theirs did, but I can wait.
MM New Rheims, now getting 2spt working two forests. (One will be chopped soon, but I'll replant one and leave it in place.) This town will never grow but it may as well get 2spt instead of 1.

MM Rheims onto that new BG, and Amiens onto the vacated mined nonBG--this gets the FP 1 turn faster.

MM New Tours onto a forest-1 fpt growth bad, but library 8 turns faster -= good. Some perfectly useful coastal squares worth fighting for. Resist temptation to shut down growth entirely.

Move spear from Rheims up towards Tours; it will swap. (Better defender at perimiter, warrior closer to upgrade in case of emergency).

Orleans worker to market. Don't forget we are Commercial, so the city center produces an extra commerce at size 7+. Grenoble can spew a few workers.

CA2 says we get Astronomy in 23 turns at our present science rate (including 15 for Astronomy). I think that will drop to 22 (14) very soon. Paris' build will almost go too quickly. Fortunately, I have a "solution" to this problem (which came into play less voluntarily than I hoped).

Spoiler :

Research choice: We can get Republic in 6 turns. Or Astronomy in 12. Paris can be MMed to get 400 shields in 17 turns at 24 spt (losing 1fpt, but it has plenty of stored food).

I recommend we do Republic now. It's cheap and we need it. But note how much our science grew (Astro in 12 instead of 15 just 8 turns ago). Universities are a priority. May be worth switching some builds over (especially happiness builds we may not need).

Trading for Feudalism is your call as to when to do it. I would do it before we revolt, I think. It may be amusing to get Republic, then trade it around, to get the AI to revolt along with us. Or that may not be amusing.

Spoonwood · Jun 18, 2008

"Resist temptation to hammer Sumeria and kill FOUR settler pairs."

How much Deity have you played?

"Orleans worker to market. Don't forget we are Commercial, so the city center produces an extra commerce at size 7+."

I didn't know that and thanks for telling me. Still, I don't like this. The whole point of the add-in worker strategy comes as not needing as much food to grow your cities. You accomplish this by building workers before they get to size 7, as we have a bigger box at size 7 than at size 6 (40 food vs. 20 food without the granary), and the granary empties at size 7. If Orleans now sits at size 7 I plan to not build anymore workers there, until perhaps the industrial age. That's fine... I suspect we don't have to use the worker add-in strategy anywhere in this game to win.

I also don't get holding onto Monotheism. Maybe I'm as dumb as the AIs, I don't know. I do understand that we wanted to use it as trade bait, and Theology works as less preferable to trade since it enables them to start the Sistine Chapel. But, I don't get why you didn't trade for Feudalism and do the following... warning you might feel like shooting yourself on this one.

You trade for Feudalism and switch Paris to Sun Tzu's. We would then have had a *600* shield pre-build on Copernicus's Observatory, which costs 400 shields. Alright, since Paris cranks out some 20+ shields in this game in despotism, maybe it would have built Sun Tzu's before we got Astronomy... I haven't done the exact calculation. But, even if it did that... no sweat. It builds Sun Tzu's, kills off the first medieval wonder cascade and then builds Copernicus's Observatory in less than 20 turns, no sweat. Oh well though... I doubt this will matter all that much.

I want us to finish Copernicus's and the Sistine Chapel before the revolt. The Sistine Chapel build will hopefully imply more content faces in the anarchy period, meaning less micromanagement and less lost food and/or population. I will research Astronomy... Paris will finish Copernicus's a few turns after that. I think we should then research Navigation and get all these contacts. Then I suggest we go with Music Theory and use J.S. Bach's as a prebuild on Smith's Trading company, and then build Bach's. After that, I think climb up to Free Artistry for Paris's Shakespeare's Theater... then on to Theory of Gravity... Newton's University in Paris. I do plan to add in some workers into cities building wonders... we'll probably want 4 or 5 building wonders during this period. I don't see a need for Military Tradition, but we can trade for it eventually I suppose. I suspect the other continent started on Sun Tzu's long ago. And now I'll go play

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