Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito retrail

[Mise]

Yeah, exactly, the media will spin it to defend "their own". A story about an American girl who killed a Brit in Italy isn't going to sell papers, but painting her as the victim gets buy-in from American readers. And the story of a Brit who gets murdered by ??????????? who the hell knows isn't going to sell papers, but painting the defendant as a cold blooded sex-crazed smoking hot psycho bizznatch gets buy-in from the British side, who want to see "justice done".

Trial by media is never going to be edifying. That's why we have courts, police and lawyers -- and that's why this whole thing sucks, because it's clear that those people are never going to get to the bottom of this case. No justice will be done here for anyone, no matter the verdict.

 

[lovett]

The idea is that appeals should work their way up the ladder to the top-ranked court, and then the matter is settled. The Italian Supreme Court sent this back down to the lower courts for a retrial.

I think I mistook your comment for saying that any opposition to appeals is just because your side lost, so to speak, and not because it had worked its way through the entire legal system.

Both sides had already appealed up to the so-called Italian Supreme Court, which turns out isn't all that supreme because it didn't make a final decision in the matter. And this isn't an issue where the supreme court decided the lower courts answered the wrong question.

Evidently, this case hadn't worked itself through the entire legal system. Part of the Italian legal system, so we (or, at least, I) have just discovered, involves the supreme court being able to send cases back to lower courts.

You're quite right, this isn't the American system. In the US, the idea is that appeals work their way up to the top and then get settled there. But, evidently, this is not how the Italian legal system works.

And I can see no reason whatsoever to say on a priori grounds that the American system is fairer, more just or in any way better in this respect. It seems very much that your criticism is 'we don't do things that way around here...'

 

[Camikaze]

You're quite right, this isn't the American system. In the US, the idea is that appeals work their way up to the top and then get settled there.

So to clarify this point, in the US, a defendant can't get a retrial if there's been (for instance) a miscarriage of justice?

 

[Chiteng]

I love how all the Americans here assume she's innocent and how the British article assume she's guilty.

Not true. I have always thought that she knows much more than she has shared.
Which does not preclude her being the perp.

Just look at her in her pics. Read parts from her jailhouse diary.
She obviously knows something.

A woman is dead. She deserves justice.

None of this would mean anything if she wasnt cute.
Absolute proof of the moral decay of our society.

What a defendant looks like should not matter for justice.
Women like her are loathsome.

 

[bhsup]

So to clarify this point, in the US, a defendant can't get a retrial if there's been (for instance) a miscarriage of justice?

It's called double jeopardy. You cannot be criminally tried for the same crime twice. It's a fundamental tenet of our system and it shocks me that other countries do not have this. I consider any nation lacking this to be regressive and barbaric, at least as far as their legal system is concerned.

 

[Antilogic]

Evidently, this case hadn't worked itself through the entire legal system. Part of the Italian legal system, so we (or, at least, I) have just discovered, involves the supreme court being able to send cases back to lower courts.

You're quite right, this isn't the American system. In the US, the idea is that appeals work their way up to the top and then get settled there. But, evidently, this is not how the Italian legal system works.

And I can see no reason whatsoever to say on a priori grounds that the American system is fairer, more just or in any way better in this respect. It seems very much that your criticism is 'we don't do things that way around here...'

You are reading far too much into the supposed contention behind my posts. Under certain circumstances, even the US Supreme Court can send decisions back to lower courts. I mentioned this in a prior post.

 

[Goodfella]

It's called double jeopardy. You cannot be criminally tried for the same crime twice. It's a fundamental tenet of our system and it shocks me that other countries do not have this. I consider any nation lacking this to be regressive and barbaric, at least as far as their legal system is concerned.

Hey! If bad thing x happens in country y, it is my duty as a civ fanatics poster to point out that bad thing x or something comparable to bad thing x has, is, or may happen in the US. So yeah, bad things are bad and America sucks.

There. I got that out of the way.

 

[useless]

I consider any nation that still has capital punishment to be regressive and barbaric.

 

[dutchfire]

It's an excuse to have pages and pages of photos of pretty young women in the name of serious journalism.

Yeah, I've seen an awful lot of "here is a picture of her in summer clothes together with a female friend/relative" shots and very few "here she is in a totally unattractive winter coat."

 

[dutchfire]

I don't assume she's innocent or guilty. But the Italians had a shot to prove it and they fracked up by the numbers. So far as I'm concerned, it is the government's responsibility to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is guilty as charged before they have the right to lock that person away. Having failed to do that, they lack the right to lock that person up. They are presumed to be innocent in the absence of the government proving their guilt. If the government screws up their case, then that's their problem.

Last I checked, the case wasn't over yet.

 

[Antilogic]

Last I checked, the case wasn't over yet.

Seems like the Italians are wanting a penalty kick shootout since they didn't win in overtime.

 

[bhsup]

Last I checked, the case wasn't over yet.

Wasn't she found not guilty? Here in USA #1, that means game over, she walks. That's the only acceptable way of doing it, btw. Tough cookies if the prosecution botched their case.

Per wiki: "During her appeal at the second level (secondo grado) of trial, which concluded on October 3, 2011, the original conviction was overturned, she was found innocent of the murder and she was released from prison."

Yep, that's it as far as I am concerned. The fat lady sang and she was found innocent and walked. Absolutely barbaric legal system that would allow them to come back and say, "no, we might have changed our mind on that guilty verdict." Thankfully, there isn't squat Italy can do about it as long as she stays safe in America.

 

[Silurian]

Wasn't she found not guilty? Here in USA #1, that means game over, she walks. That's the only acceptable way of doing it, btw. Tough cookies if the prosecution botched their case.

Per wiki: "During her appeal at the second level (secondo grado) of trial, which concluded on October 3, 2011, the original conviction was overturned, she was found innocent of the murder and she was released from prison."

Yep, that's it as far as I am concerned. The fat lady sang and she was found innocent and walked. Absolutely barbaric legal system that would allow them to come back and say, "no, we might have changed our mind on that guilty verdict." Thankfully, there isn't squat Italy can do about it as long as she stays safe in America.

She was found innocent of the murder and she was released from prison subject to lawful appeal. The prosecution announced on the day knox and Sollecito's appeal verdict was annouced that they were considering an appeal.

So she was not found not guilty at all in the US judical sence. So the fat lady did not sing.

If she thinks the Italian Supreme court is wrong and she has not received a fair trail she can make an artical 6 appeal to the European Court.

 

[Cutlass]

If the Italians are going to prosecute here further, they need to extradite her. And the farce the Italians have made of the case so far are grounds to fight and deny extradition.

 

[Silurian]

they do not need to extradite her under Italian law for a trail. She can instruct her lawyer by phone if ehe wishes.

 

[Cutlass]

Have fun putting her in prison without extraditing her first. That'd be a neat trick.

 

[bhsup]

She was found innocent of the murder and she was released from prison subject to lawful appeal. The prosecution announced on the day knox and Sollecito's appeal verdict was annouced that they were considering an appeal..

Yeah, that's my issue in case you haven't noticed. The very fact that they can appeal a innocent sentence is just galling. It's an embarrassment for Italy that such a thing can even be considered acceptable, as well as for any country that does it. They should be ashamed of themselves. It ranks right up there with "guilty until proven innocent" as far as I am concerned.

 

[Antilogic]

VRWC, you want to see some gross miscarriages of justice? Try to make sense of the Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney world.

 

[Silurian]

Well if the do convict Knox they will request her extridition.

She was not acquitted by the italian legal system but released subject to appeal.

So what would her grounds for appealing extradition under the treaty between Italy and the USA.
The US was aware of the Italian judicial system when it signed the treaty.

In 2010, a federal court in California found that a man who was acquitted of murder in Mexico and later convicted after prosecutors appealed the acquittal, could not claim double jeopardy to avoid extradition to Mexico.

That court cited a 1974 decision from the 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals in New York, that reached the same conclusion with respect to Canadian law, which also allows the government to appeal an acquittal

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-Ne...it-extradition-treaty-against-US-Constitution

 

[bhsup]

Figures, f'ing California fed court. Probably that atrocious 9th circuit. No American should ever be subject to double jeopardy. Shameful that a man is in Mexican prison because of it.