American Accent

[Duddha]

What is currently understood as the American accent, through global media, is actually a classic Californian flat gringo accent.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

SN: that is nonsense - ne...pas is NOT a useles word combo, like, like, like, you know, like!

Sure it is. What the hell do you need it for? You've already negated the statement once.

Have you studied French? Then you#d know, like, about, y'know, like the history, like, of the language, like, and know, like, y'know, like like has no hoistorcial, like, function like, like, pas, like. Y'know?

It's the same concept and developed in the same manner. "x is like y" is a legitimate way of saying "x resembles y, but is not identical". This establishes "like + [description]" as a rather common phenomenon in the language. From there, its only one step before "like" becomes grammaticalized and is used to preface qualifications, descriptions, etc.

It's, like, totally the same thing.

 

[bobgote]

Americans, especially from California, seem to have a slightly nasal sound to their speech, its very VERY subtle.

slight?
the first thing that comes to mind when speaking of generic american accents is "nasal". by generic, i mean especially your news presenters etc.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

slight?
the first thing that comes to mind when speaking of generic american accents is "nasal". by generic, i mean especially your news presenters etc.

Nasal?? In America?

Nasal accents are considered very un-prestigious in America; most people with one are labled as nerds or snobs.

 

[Duddha]

Huh, the Californian accent isn't nasal at all, it is one of the flatest accents in the world.

 

[Colonel]

yo playa we's gots a accent lolol we have accents lololyall thinks we's got's uh accent lolol Does america have an accents lolol

 

[Drewcifer]

What is currently understood as the American accent, through global media, is actually a classic Californian flat gringo accent.

But it is probably the product of all the Midwesterners who immigrated to California during the dust bowl, the classic "neutral" California accent is indistinguisable from the "neutral" midwestern accent of Omaha or Kansas City. Because the dust bowl never destroyed farming in the northern plains you never got the more nordic version that is more prevelent in Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota and the UP of Michigan. While that accent sounds Canadian to many it should be noted that we don't use eh? as the Canadians do (eh? is the Canadian version of like).

I agree that the accents in the US are probably caused by the different ethinic groups that settled each particular region blending together linguistically. The "Minnesota" accent that is prevelent mostly in the rural areas of the northern plains can probably be traced to a combination of Germans, Scandinavians and indians all learning English together from the Irish and old stock decendents of English puritains who first colonized the area; because the Irish were the lower class at the time the immigrants and indians probably learned it from them. To my ear the accent often has the same sing-song quality of Irish or Scottish brouge spoken with drawn out Germanic vowels. Also some people say ya (ja) instead of yes, I didn't realize this until I saw Fargo but then I heard it everywhere. The strongest version of that accent I have heard is up north in Duluth and the (Iron) Range where all the Finns and Swedes settled and on the indian reservations nearby (also the socialist heartland of Minn and the US, local socio-political tendencies are probably also derived from the groups that settled there). It is much less prevelent in the cities where there are people from everywhere. A trained ear can hear the difference between rural Minnesota and rural Wisconsin accents, it is probably caused by the fact that there were more Germans and fewer Scandinavians and Irish in 'sconny. But what Ebitdadada said is true, most people in the cities don't speak like that, mostly it is the ones who have moved in from the small towns or a few enclaves within the cities.

The influx of southeast Asians and Latin Americans will probably change the accent to the point where it will barely exist in 100 years time.

It is interesting to go to New Orleans and hear people speak with what would generally be considered a Brooklyn accent. Apparently they had almost the exact same balance of immigrants in the late 19th - early 20th century.

Edit: One English word useage that is prevelent in the Upper Midwest of the US and generally nowhere else is that people use the word borrow where they should use lend, as in "can you borrow me a dollar?" I have a pet theory that this was caused by immigrants learning English improperly. Can anyone confirm or deny that borrow and lend are the same verb in German or any of the Scandinavian languages?

 

[bobgote]

Nasal?? In America?

Nasal accents are considered very un-prestigious in America; most people with one are labled as nerds or snobs.

Just my impression.

We probably get a poor representation of what a generic accent actually is.

 

[Akka]

To use a "high-culture" example that the arrogant may be able to understand, it is similar to the use of the word "pas" in French for negative statements, only with more usability.

No.
"ne ... pas" is not a filler. It's the correct form.
Just like you use "it is not" and not just "it not". Or "I do not think" and not just "I not think". Or "expensive" and not "expnsv", even if the former uses more letters.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

No.
"ne ... pas" is not a filler. It's the correct form.
Just like you use "it is not" and not just "it not". Or "I do not think" and not just "I not think". Or "expensive" and not "expnsv", even if the former uses more letters.

Right, and just the same, "like" is not a filler. It is the correct form in the dialects in which it appears.

I singled it out as an example because it developed in exactly the same way that the use of "like" that people were complaining about developed. That it has become more officially recognized is irrelevant.

 

[Akka]

Right, and just the same, "like" is not a filler. It is the correct form in the dialects in which it appears.

No. "like" is used precisely to FILL UP until the person find the words/formulation she was looking for. It's a good definition of a filler. It's not something you find when the person is knowing precisely what she will say.

"ne ... pas" is the correct form to use, and not to fill up. Even if you know perfectly what you'll say and how, you'll still use "ne ... pas", but you won't use "like" every two words.

 

[BassDude726]

What I wonder is why all the former British colonies developed different accents. Isn't that weird? Like Australia and the US.

 

[Mise]

What I wonder is why all the former British colonies developed different accents. Isn't that weird? Like Australia and the US.

Perhaps we exported a standard accent to the USA, but then back home, our accent changed, then we exported the new accent to the West Indies, but then back home.... etc. etc. etc.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

No. "like" is used precisely to FILL UP until the person find the words/formulation she was looking for.

That's not correct. It may seem that way, but, as a speaker of a dialect in which it occurs I can assure you its not. Its been grammaticalized.

"ne ... pas" is the correct form to use, and not to fill up. Even if you know perfectly what you'll say and how, you'll still use "ne ... pas", but you won't use "like" every two words.

Same here. In the correct situation, I will still use "like" when I know exactly what I am going to say.

Nobody says "like" every two words. That's an exageration and you know it.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

I went pack and looked over some instances of "like" in my own speech, and here's what I generally saw.

When there is a description that is somewhat vague, stretchy, fanciful, or a specific term being used generally, it is prefaced with "like". Some examples:

That is like the stupidest thing I have ever heard. translation: that was pretty stupid, but not necessarily the stupidest thing I have ever heard
He probably listens to like Rush Limbaugh and stuff translation: he listens to conservative radio hosts

 

[sabo]

Actually, most people I find do have different accents. There is the midwest accent which is like Minnesota (very annoying). Then there is the New York/New Jersey accent (propensity to be annoying). The southern accent (kinda makes the people sound dumb even though they wouldn't be considered 'white trash'). There is the New England accent ('pahk the cah in Havahd Yahd'). And then the accent I have which is standard. I have the default American accent found in such places as Florida, California, Arizona, Washington state and is the accent that is most heard in American media.

which is annoying as hell

 

[Akka]

SN : the examples you gave are, actually, perfectly legitimate uses of "like". It's not about these ones the previous poster was talking. He was talking about "like" being used like a comma, to pause the speech while finding the words.

It was, like, well, like, this kind of, like, sentence.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I'm sorry Seleucus but Akka is right.

The sample sentence of an American talking in void could be :
"I don't know... I mean it's a bit like... well you know the little dog like the one Bush makes pee on the wall of the White House each evening like... well, I want the same you know ? well yeah ... yeah that's the one I'd love to get."

Okay my sentence sucks.
This being said, the negative form in English is "I do not like that dog". and not "I not like that dog". In French, the correct negative form is "Je n'aime pas ce chien" and not "J'aime pas ce chien". Removing the "ne" is grammatically wrong slang and in a serious conversation it sounds uneducated and wrong.

French and English are very different in that very aspect of things. French people are very conservative about their language and consider removing the "ne" as grammatically wrong, which it is. On the other side, Americans tend to be less conservative (linguistically speaking of course!) and you tend to assimilate errors and finaly consider them as right. For instance, you don't consider there are mistakes in color, analyze, colorize, despize, civilization, etc...

 

[Immortal]

Marla, that was actually a really good representation.

:applause:

 

[Benderino]

Seleucus, I think they got you beat.

But, on a topic related to the two of us, I hear there is a Chicago accent. Can someone (proably someone from within the States) describe it to me. I hear it involves overly-emphasized vowels or something.