Amirsan3- Diety Newb Attempt- Join!!!!

:confused:

I played 10 because I wanted ten. I'm already slowing you guys down, why would I want to play more and slow you down even further.:)

BTW since you may have missed it with the screwed-up server date, here are my comments.

.........

As usual, Belials comments indicate he doesn't belong here.;)

Tsukemono5@ (is there a short nick you prefer?) My comments are not so important that you needed to wait on them but it would be good to avoid problems like TSK01.;)

My biggest concern is following the golden rule:
Population is POWER

  1. That means, settling food bonuses are a high priority. (Luxuries have been our high priority which is ok because unhappiness limits population too.)
  2. Once we have food bonuses, improve them to their best potential.
  3. Once we grow, do what is necessary to minimize the loss when workers and settlers are built.

We did good with point 1, putting Bombay on the Cow. We did not-so-good with Madras only having 1 two-food tile and then didn't bring irrigation to its plains tiles when we were going for the ivory. I follow the teams suggestion about settling the furs and the iron next. If I had my preferences though I would have gone with the greener pastures in the south. (That would have helped our Barb problem too.)

We've done badly with point 2. We've left the game in the forest losing 1 food per turn. That doesn't sound like a lot but its the difference beteen Settlers every 10 turns and settlers every 8 turns. It will make a difference. Also, we hadn't started any attempt to irrigate our cow in Bombay, nor irrigate the plains in Madras.

For point 3 we need to build units periodically because Delhi doesn't grow as fast as it makes settlers. We need to prevent dropping all the way down to size 1 or 2. This is killing our treasury. We need to get the populations up to their max happiness. We have 2 luxuries connected so with 2 MP we can have five citizens. Using the slider we can easily get 6 or 7. When the furs get connected we'll be even better. Things that also help minimize the loss of citizens is i food bonuses for quicker recovery (see point 2) and having OVERLAP of cities. That way the improved tiles that are not being worked by city A, can be worked by city B when City A makes it's settler/worker.

There is a big trade off here between workers and city size. In general, it's important to have at least one worker per city. When we build Settler, Settler, Settler, we need another city that can build worker, warrior, worker, warrior fast enough to keep up. I think Bombay can do that. It's building a barracks (one was started, vetoed in favor of a worker and then started again.:) ) not because I think veteran warriors are that important but because I wanted to build something that would let the population get up to the 4 or 5 range. (You may end up changing to an archer or spear as there is another camp in the south.)
When cities get to their maximum food (or get to 1fpt) then any city can peal a worker off. The more the better.

My second concern is the barbs. (Amirsan@ I'm sorry I added them and I think I actually must have selected raging.) This is going to be a good diety experience, making us ready for anything.:lol: There is a couple of good things with barbs on diety. First, you get contacts quickly because the AI sends units to destroy your barb camps. (They're genetically programmed to hate them.) Second, the AI is usually strong enough to take out most of the threats for you as long as you can turtle when barbs come. Third, raging barbs pop up camps quickly giving us the opportunity to make a little cash and upgrade units. This has to be done intelligently though. To make the camp appear, you must leave a tile in the Fog of War. Choose where you want them to appear based on terrain. Don't let them appear in the mountains or jungle. Without an attacking bonus sometimes your best approach is to fortify on a mountain and let them suicide on your spear. Once the roving barb is dead send an archer over to kill the camp. I realize we've suffered a lot of losses but once we get swordsmen, we can barb farm to get them to elite and make a little gold on the side.

However, we need to get a few more unit producing cities. I suggest a city to the SW of Delhi as it has BG and rivers. The SE can be our barb farm so I would place a low priority on the green dot, UNLESS you move it NW by 2 tiles. Then it can share the improvements of Delhi as Delhi makes settlers. We need some units on the mountain ridge so barbs can get the high ground.

The chinese are Rapidly approaching so if you want that second iron, better get it right after the SW town. Usually its a good idea to delay iron hook up so we can build cheap units for MP first. Dont connect iron until our settler push is over and each town has the 2 MP it needs. Once we get Republic (30 turns or so) Then MP wont be needed, we can upgrade half the warriors to swords and claim more land.:mwaha:

(Sorry for the rambling.)

Tsukemono5@ Shift a few units down to the mountains and hit the camp with an archer. Then leave them somewhere that will allow another camp to show up. Rinse, repeat. Don't attack the barb while he's on the mountain. Hopefully he will impale himself on the spear. It might be less risky to cover with a warrior as well.

Settle SW next. Send the scouts in the north towards the Pennisula in the east. I left Belials warrior on the mountain fortified because I didn't want barb camps in our tender spots.

Watch the timing of the forest chop, it's due soon but I don't remember how soon. I didn't set Delhis build to plan for it.

Road and irrigate the plains tiles to the west.

Don't get dead.:)

Sorry for the long post. Don't forget that I've never played much diety so feel free to print this out and throw it in the garbage.:mischief:

Belial@ I swear I got the embassy message but I could have been halucinating. I never tried to do anything with it. I played 10 because I don't have time for more. Most SG's start playing 10 around this time. We're on a nice turn schedule for it. Harbors are expensive and this is a panagea map. Not sure we want to focus on that yet. Maybe in Bombay when the expansion phase is over. Good point about the dye city. Much better than China, we're playing nice nice with China for a while.
 
I agree with most of your post this time. ;)

However, I still think we should grab northern vs. southern.

I don't really think any of the ai's will get any of our southern half, judged by our map location. Though we will want to grab our 'bonus' land or the AI will set that as a high priority and it would hurt us missing a core city. The warrior on the mountain is not a bad idea either, however we may want to see whats on that peninsula, there could be many things there perhaps more luxury and if that's the case, getting a harbor off to claim that would be the fastest way and it would increase our trade (provided other civs have a harbor). I also don't see it as a high priority, however we should claim that iron and hope we can trade it to someone. If I recall the map, the mongols don't have any iron yet and the only real expansion our civs have left to go is our way.

Population is power, indeed, however our only city capable of producing anything is... the city that is draining our population. Delhi. Workers will improove that, which is why I bought one from the mongols, those two luxuries hooked up will help tremendously early on in despotism, but the way things are shaping out to be, we're going to be out of that in apriximately thirty turns.

I also would have cut down that forest and irrigated in my beginning, but I don't think it will be the end of us. Better late than never.

Also, CF, what do you mean I don't belong here? Hehe, I don't know if I should take that as a compliment or an insult. I pretty much only play on diety and I've dominated games, just never finished one.

Also, luxuries mean a lot lategame rather than early but keeping them may be the problem, the one with the furs is going to be at a high culture flip risk if it doesn't get a temple and some work out there (lots of forests means shields, but it will take a lot to cut them down). Also, there is a big difference between raging and restless barbs :p. We'll have fun with those in our south if that is the case so I won't completely argue settling there either.

Finally, playing ten, in my opinion, would be the best way to go. We will see a lot more from each other's playing style vs. fifteen where usually by then, we finish what we want to start.

I m ight have did abit more rambling, let me know if I can clear something up.
 
OK, I'm playing now.
 
I finished my turns, and am writing my report now. Guys, we are now at our official "low point." Why? You will see...
 
OK, scratch that. A personal situation has come up, and I will be unable to use the computer for the rest of the day. But I have teaser images!

barbSOD2.jpg


barbSOD1.jpg
 
could it possibly be a good idea to spend all our gold to buy something from the AI? that way the bandits won't run off with our money
 
Sigh...

I was wondering how many camps were out there as the AI were approaching the next age. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to trade all those techs for parity.:hmm:

So much for our upgrade the warriors strategy. The bright side is the brand spanking new city has no improvements to lose and no citizens to be slain. Spend our gold on anything (even gifting it for better attitudes. Max 100g/civ) I doubt we can afford republic but if we could grab it we could revolt with 1 turn anarchy.

Just make sure to protect our workers.

:eek:

Belial@ take my comment as a compliment. You have a lot of experience on diety and are ahead of me at least in playing diety. I said you don't belong because we're supposed to be diety newbies.:)
 
Good good, those horsement aren't really 'that' bad. It's just a setback. They can ruin what we were producing, but that's about it. It also seems that our capital should have been 'ok' so we can still put out settlers. However, instead of thinking we can grab so much land, we may want to focuus on filling in our core cities now. The AI will be approching us to clean those camps and if they notice we have no defense, it will mean a quick and easy sneak attack and we defidently can not afford to go to war at all now.

Also, spending that money is a very good idea, gift if you have to (I think you already did, because you said you finished). Anyhow, the next person to send anything out, protect it all. Those barbs will be the end of us if we don't get them taken care of.
 
I didn't gift (shoulda thought of that :mad: ) but I watched diplo like a hawk. There are three techs that we don't have, and none of them are Republic. One is Monarchy though. No one would trade me a tech for anything. I'll post the turns in a bit.
 
IT: I take five minutes just to study everything and take in our situation. I check the builds, the tiles being worked (all looking fine), and note possible city sites. Then I decide that we're in capable hands and click next turn.

1. Madras Warrior->spear. I check diplo. Hammer has Currency. Won't sell. I fortify the spear where the workers are roading BG.

2. Game forest chopped, start irrigating. Bombay Spear->Barracks.

3. Barb horse closing on Calcutta. Delhi Settler->Archer. Settler heads south.

4. Horse kills our warrior with no damage and sacks Calcutta for 14 g :mad:. Grrrrr. Zulu are building Great Wall, which means they have Construction. And if they traded it with Babs for Currency, that means (There would be a screenie here of the barb uprising but there are two perfectly good ones earlier and I forgot to take one :crazyeye: ). Uh oh. Middle ages. I send the spear that was guarding the workers north to Calcutta.

5. Delhi switches to a spear. Workers start bringing irrigation to Madras. C+C are held by Babs, Zulu, Ottomans, and Chinese.

6. GAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!! Babs got Feudalism for free. And they're building Sun Tzu's! Our southern archer finds a barb camp. We lose about 50 gold from the barbs sacking Calcutta over and over. Founded Lahore.

7. Road to horses done. Barbs kill archer. No me gusta. Delhi spear->archer. Workers take cover in Delhi. No one will trade us any techs for any price.

8. Zulu start Sun Tzu's. So this is what it's like when tech parity is a joke. I wish we had the Great Library right about now... Korea has Monarchy and no one else does. Just guess. He won't trade. I brace myself for the southern barb attack.

9. One attacks Lahore and takes 9g. The rest seem to be milling around in the mountains. God am I glad they're there. No trades.

10. Gah. Our worker near Bombay got killed by a barb from the fog. Delhi Archer->Horse. The archer kills a barb horse on the hill and takes no damage. Still can't trade for techs (what a surprise)

And there you have it folks. Here's a screenie of our situation:

civwideshot1000BC.jpg
 
Gah, double post. Nothing is going right in this game for me :(.
 
That wasn't as bad as the teaser!

According to your report we only lost 14g and a worker (bummer about our worker). That wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Actually, I think the exposed worker drew the horsemen to our better defended city which isn't bad. Now, with Lahore undefended, they may turn around and run over there (ala puppet strings exploit). Can we use this to our advantage? Get the archers in position on the mountains with a spear guarding them and switch defenders in and out of Bombay/Lahore alternately maybe?

Don't worry about tech parity. It will come. For now we just want to build. Both cities and military. The more techs the AI have, the more we can get from peace settlement. Plus we need the gold for upgrading our swords. We're going to need them. Don't worry about building wonders. Those sheild will be put into building units to TAKE wonders. The only wonder we should think about building by hand is the FP.

I know you had your hands full with barbs but any word about the pennisula to the East?
 
Don't forget the ToE and Hoovers.

Also, the swordsmen idea was kind of blown out of proportion, early wars in diety is almost always impossible (almost). We'll be fine once we get out of despotism and get our cities worked up. I just hope we will have enough cities to be able to build a FP.

However, getting those elephants may be a key phase as we strike our GA. We may just want to do that to take the dye city AND to get our economy rolling (banks/marketplaces).

Then we can see where we stand with that.
 
Ummm, check my report about the SOD. We lost closer to 65 g + the worker. Is Lahore's location good? It was either miss the coast or grab the BGs. We can stick a fishing village on one of the hills to the west; if the eastern one, it can borrow BGs from Lahore so it can build stuff. Nothing on the eastern peninsula. I was trying to hunt down barb camps :(. We can use some horses to explore though, and leverage that into WM sales.
 
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