Amirsan3- Diety Newb Attempt- Join!!!!

Great, GREAT job Belial.

I knew Babylon was getting hit from the other side. I actually had fortified a spear on our railroad so Korea's shortest route to Babylon would be the North. (I hated seing all those Korean troops in our borders.

I agree with everything you said! Irrigation when cities aren't maxed is important. But at this point, lets improve unimproved tiles first and MM to use them. We still want production for a few things: hospitals in towns that can use them. Market/Banks/Stock in towns that don't have them. Cathedrals for happiness, plus the added culture. The closer we are in culture to Korea, the more likely people will vote for us.

Here's the rules about the vote.
  • When the UN is built, the builder automatically is eligible to be voted for.
  • At the time of the vote, any civ with 25% territory or 25% population is also eligible to be voted for.
  • In the event that no one has 25% territory or 25% population, then the next "biggest" civ becomes eligible to be voted for. "Biggest" is sort of unknow if two civs are close, but I think it's the larger total percentage of territory and population.

Things we can do to help us:
  • Maximum gift if 100g. Gifts decrease at 10gpt. So a maximum gift would be 100g + 10gpt. Any more does not improve relations.
  • Having more culture than the person voting.
  • Having traded within the last 20 turns. Note that giving away Maps does not count as trading but WM for WM does.
  • Trading resources. That is a big plus. The more resources we grab from Babylon for trading, the better off we are.
  • Having ROP
  • Having MPP (another big one but dangerous to get with more than one civ.)
  • Having a common enemy (hense the dogpile on Korea at the end)
  • Doing damage to a common enemy. We should raze a Korean town on the final turn before the UN. Pick small, corrupt, easily taken cities. I think it's like trading, you just have to do something periodically. More is not better.
  • Other things that we have less control over like being in the same government and being in a civ's favorite government.
We can discuss the exact details as we get closer. The big thing is going to be preventing Korea from getting to fission AND building the UN (~10 turns after Fission) before we can by fission. Are they still in Communism due to war weariness? Are you still looking for brokering opportunities (i.e. Ottomans, Japan, Zulu, China get a tech we don't have?) We need to do these everytime they appear and as often as we can afford to. God be with you on the leader fishing. It would be a big leg up to get one for at least our FP, preferably three for the FP, the Ironworks and save one for the UN.
 
We ddi get one leader - should be used for the FP imo, more cash = easier to catch up on tech.
 
amirsan@
Start reading HERE

That's only 2 pages back.

Tsukemono5 should be up next and "getting it" within 24hrs. You would be up after him, provided you feel ready.

We have a small problem. Belial said we have a leader, but we can't use him for FP or Ironworks because we're in Mobilization. We can't get out of mobilization without suing for peace. After we get peace, Korea will pull us back in with MPP, hurting our rep.

Two solutions.
1) Declare on China. Take the flipped city back and sue for peace as soon as they come to the table. Hopefully, we can do that without any losses in our territory and thus keep Korea out of the war. Suing for peace would cancel Mobilization and we can continue the war with Babylon.

2) Get peace with Babylon, swap as many builds to what we want them to be infrastructure-wise and then get sucked back in by MPP with Korea. This hurts our reputation. But since we're already on the bad list, oh well.

I want to look at the save before deciding what my choice would be. Our goal for the Babylonian war is to prevent them from having 25% pop/25%territory. If that is done, Korea will definitely be our opponent.

The FP should definitely be our first priority. An we've already decided it should be at Ulaanbataar. That puts the Ironworks city in the first radius of the FP so low corruption. It would be tempting to try for a core in the Babylonian lands but I think thats just asking for trouble trying to defend such a large area. We should be fine with the cities we have in the west. The our cities in Babylonian lands are just territory denial for the Babs themselves. Once that's done, I think we should work on getting all cities as productive as possible, making sure that they're all getting at least +4fpt until they grow to size 12.

As for the leader though, I would be tempted to get Hoovers with him just to prevent Korea from getting it. We could use the instant powerplants in all our cities. The reduced polution is a nice benefit that we couldn't have gotten because we don't have many rivers. That means bring the leader to a city that has a river, get out of mobilization and rush Hoovers. That probably means method 2 (which will be faster to get out of Mobilization). More to follow after I've looked at the save.
 
I looked briefly at the save.

Immediate Action
Tsuke@ You are going to have to investigate Karakorum to find out how long they will take to build Hoovers. I didn't notice if Babylon had started that but check them as well. If it's due in less than 5 turns, you need to get us out of mobilization immediately and rush Hoovers in some river city, preferably one with the least shields in the box, but not too near the border lest we lose it in a war.

If it's more than 5 turns away, we can wait until the MPP is done and then get peace. If it continues that Babylon doesn't have Sanitation, buy that from Korea before making the peace deal. That will allow us to trade it to babylon and get more than 1 tech (preferably all three). If not, settle for peace first, getting Corporation and Electricity if possible. We want to see how far ahead Korea really is.

Infrastructure
After peace, get us into Democracy (we're religious so anarchy is only 1 turn.) Crank out tile improvements. Focus on Ulaanbataar first, then Ironworks city to its west and the core. The more people we have, the more money we make so irrigation should be the priority unless we're maxed at 12. Then mining to get the hospitals/bank/stock done fast.

Tile improvement
Stack workers so they complete in one turn, rather than having a ton of half-done improvements. Remember that flat land improvements are faster than hills/forest which is faster than mountains/jungle.

Dealing with our Rep
If you are unable to trade gpt for tech still, check to see why by offering a deal even though the advisor say Never. The diplomat will tell you we've broken a treaty with so-and-so. Getting a civ to go to war with that person will allow us to trade gpt temporarily. E.g. I think our rep is broken because of how I declared war on China. If you get Korea to declare against China, then we can trade gpt for tech with Korea. Since we have an MPP with them right now, we could declare on China, wait for china to come knocking and then Korea, has to fight them. We can then trade GPT.

Now that I think about it, this is the best way to get out of mobilization because we could get peace with China ASAP and Korea is unlikely to pull us back in within the 5 turns left of the MPP. The only question is whether that process would be fast enough to let us rush Hoovers before Korea builds it.

What's left of Babylon
I think we need to raze the Babylon cities surrounding New Delhi so that we don't risk any flipping. Knock out what you can, preferably closer to their capital. MapStat indicates that they are down around 13-14% in territory and population. That should be enough to keep them out of the vote.

Tech
What we can see is that Korea is ahead by at least Espionage, Corporation, Electricity and Sanitation. We know they are ahead by more than that because they rushed TOE with a leader so they must have had SciMeth, and now they have at least 2 others. (Sanitation, Espionage and Corporation could have been from TOE, electricity could not.) They are building Hoovers so they must have Atomic theory and Electronics also.

The only way to stay close with Korea is to have multiple trading partners. Right now, Babylon, the Zulu and Ottomans are the only ones that have a shot at researching at a decent rate. Japan and China are worthless. First, we get all Babylon techs for peace and gpt (our rep is shot so this is the only place to get tech for gpt. Then buying from Korea, sell to Babylon for a second. Then sell to Everyone for what ever we can get. This will let the Zulu and Ottomans focus on researching higher techs to reduce the cost for us. As soon as a trading partner gets a new tech, buy/steal from Korea and get the twofer. In other words, we want Babylon, Ottomans and Zulus to be just a little behind Korea. As they get close, we steal/buy at 2nd, sell for a tech at 3rd/4th.

Zulu
In checking MapStat to find out about Babylon, I came to a depressing realization. The Zulu have 24% of the population. That means they will also be on the ballot for the UN. They won't vote for us, they'll vote for themselves. It might be a good thing to declare on them while the MPP is still in effect and then settle for peace. Korea should eat them alive and the two share a long border which means a giant bloodbath. If we don't kill any Zulu units and we don't raze any Zulu towns, we can settle for peace, and keep the Zulu fairly happy with us. They still might vote for us if they are too small to vote for themselves.

Summary: I would declare against China and Zulu now. Wait until they attack us so that Korea declares against them both. Then settle for peace with Babylon, China and Zulu, getting all Babylon techs showing for gpt. Then try to twofer for any techs babylon has that weren't showing. Then sell to Ottomans and gift to Zulu. Rinse repeat.

Please excuse the highly-detailed-wrath (TM). I know you haven't been around for most of these developments and this is truly the most crucial turn of the game. We need to get everything right or we risk letting Korea get too far ahead in tech. When you post your got it, let us know if you have ANY questions about what's going on. We need to have a seemless transition from Belial's well played turn to yours.
 
The only thing I disagree is how we infrastructure. We have too many slaves and using them to get to 1 turn vs. two is rather time costly and inefficient.

Once we have replaceable parts, however, then it's it a little different. I'd get things down to two turns and then move on and until we get replaceable parts, that is.

Kind of bites that Zulu has that much :p but I think we can still pull something out.

It's still likely we could go for domination depending on how bad the bloodbath between Zulu and Korea is (this also may be our best shot to win as well, if the war does go bad between the two).
 
Re: Workers 1 or 2 turns is fine. No more than that. With rails, its best to prioritize one tile so we get the benefit from that immediately. Then you can send the workers halfway across the nation if need be to get the next tile improved.

Re Domination I think we should still persue Diplomatic victory as planned. We will not loose this way. The worst case is a 3 way tie with Korea, Zulu and us each voting for ourselves. The zulu have beat on everyone we have except China and the Ottomans so we need to get a war going that way if Zulu's are still in contention.

If we don't get the vote, then yes, Domination is the way to go. We will kill everyone, starting with Korea and hitting them until MI are available, meanwhile focus on getting MAs. I think if we orchestrate a dogpile on Korea, they will melt just like Babylon did. But thats a long way from now. Lets hope we can get Diplo first.
 
So, no pressure, right ;)? :lol:
Lo tengo, I will play it tomorrow. Gentlemen, this is where it comes down to the wire. If we lose, then I would like to say that it has been truly a pleasure playing with you in this, my first Deity experience. If we win... all of the above applies, plus I get drunk on success :lol:. I am going to Canada for nine days on August 21st (which happens to be my fourteenth birthday) and I hope you guys win this while I'm away.
 
Nah, no pressure.

Just priortize getting Hoovers (we're researching electricity, which is due, suprisingly, the same time our MPP ends) it's -no- sweat if we can't get it simply because we're mainly going for the income and it's just a nice bonus to get our income up in a hurry.

If we don't get it, then the way it goes is just as follows:
Coal plant, market, bank, stock exchange, and irrigate. Use the leader for the FP and do the same, minus the irrigate so we have -some- production in dire times (if worst comes to worst, we can always drop into communism for a few whippings to get a desirable building or such. Oh, and mine all hills/mountains, even though we won't be using them for growth. Prioritize the core with rails, of course, first. Once we have irrigated it all, we should keep around 6-10 workers maximum, and all slaves as they're no upkeep at all and use the rest to merge to get more income. The stealing of tech may result in a suprising war, but the chances are slim and all we have to do is hold until we can get peace for $$$.

If we -do- get hoovers, all we're eliminating is the pollution and the factory builds.

So, to answer your question, no, no pressure at all. Just play it how you will and have fun with it, you'll do fine. Remember, it is just a game and games are made to be fun, even if you do lose one here and there.
 
OK, I'm playing it in a few minutes.

EDIT: OK, I played a few turns (no more than 2) and I realized right away how woefully unprepared I am for this. I do not in any way shape or form have the skills it takes to handle a turn with quandaries of this magnitude. I do NOT want to ruin this game for you guys. In short, I have just de-got it. I am leaving for Canada tomorrow, and I wish you the best of luck in dealing with this, easily the hardest set of turns in any game of Civ I have played since the original release of 2.
 
Come on you big chicken, er pickled chicken. (Yuck.)

Play at least 5. Try to follow the advice we've given. The whole point is this is a Diety newbie game. If we lose that's expected. If we don't, imagine how much more proud you'd be knowing you came in for these 5 turns and played your A$$ off!

I don't think you can screw us up that badly in 5 turns, and even if it is possible, I won't hold it against you. Just take your time, think about each move and trust your decisions. You already have a good guideline in our previous posts. Let us know if there is something in particular you are unsure of. Otherwise, Go For it. Since this is your last turn for a while, I really want you to take it and get some play in as our team mate! If nothing else, you will learn from the experience, both what you did right and what you did wrong.
 
I really don't want to be in a 2 person SG, but I so badly want to complete this miracle comeback. I will wait until tomorrow, in case Tsuke changes his mind. I sent him a PM pleading with him to at least finish his 5 turns.

Amirsan, why don't you play 5 turns? That's not so much as to screw anything up and it is YOUR game. Come 'on. Besides, your more of a diety vet than me. You should be able to hop in here just fine with all the directions Belial and I have been posting. At least take the game and look at it. That way you can see if you have any ideas besides what the two of us have done.
 
Give Tsuke until late tonight (he leaves tomorrow). Then play 5-10. Take your time, I won't be around much until Monday.
 
Originally posted by amirsan
Strict 24/48 Got it and Playing ;)
Click to expand...
I guess that rule is out.;)

Amirsan, at least let us know that you're playing. Its been three days.
 
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