An example of a school overstepping it's boundaries?

[Gustave5436]

Overstepping boundaries would be infringing on the rights of women by requiring them to gain parental consent (in the hopes that the parents will also be insane social conservatives who then coerce the individual in question into complying with their own social conservative views). Specifically, civil rights boundaries relating to privacy, gender equality, etc. At least, this is from an individualist standpoint. A fanatically collectivist argument, which took a strict, unitary culture as more important than individual human life/liberty/etc. could consistently object to the current status of the law in those states which do not require parental consent.

 

[IAM]

The school was under no obligation to inform the mother as per Oregon law. The student made use of the services by her choice, the mother signed the permission form.

So what exactly is your objection here?

I don't equate the law and morality. Just because it is legal does not make it right. I am pro-abortion, by the way, but in this case if the parents are legally responsible for their child then I think they should at least have prior knowledge of such a major issue in their childs life.

 

[Quackers]

[citation needed], because right now all we have is [1].

you got to read between the lines...

get an imagination

its there

 

[dirtyparrot]

No, actually, the mother is pro-choice. The daughter is pro-life.



You're ignoring the issue. The issue is 1.) Whether or not the school should be allowed to ship a student off-site for whatever reason without the parent's consent and 2.) Whether a school should be advocating, or at least putting forward, abortion.

(And I find it well odd that you have to have parental consent to obtain a tattoo, but not to have an abortion )

Presumably, the consent form that the mom signed was for her daughter to be able to go to the clinic during school hours. However, if the clinic was on campus and was allowed to perform abortions, I think that the parents ought to be informed. That being said, her daughter's abortion is none of her mother's business as long as the daughter wants this to be the case and can give an informed consent.

 

[Traitorfish]

you got to read between the lines...

get an imagination

its there

I think we've been over this "imagination" thing before, haven't we? You were unwilling to explain it the first time round, so I don't suppose that you feel inclined to elaborate now.

 

[Quackers]

i don't think the daughter of a pro-life activist would be inclined to go to the nurse and say "i want an abortion" it doesn't happen

she goes to the nurse discovers she's pregnent, the nurse a liberal hippy or whatever pressures her into getting an abortion - the nurse obviously a product of crazy marxist university system thought it would empower her to kill her unborn child.

seems quite likely to me

u do need an imagination TF

 

[civ_king]

Agent Quackers I think you are the most success liberal to act like a conservative so far

 

[Traitorfish]

i don't think the daughter of a pro-life activist would be inclined to go to the nurse and say "i want an abortion" it doesn't happen

Firstly, all we have is the woman's word for it, and parent's are ever keen to inflict their views upon children and represent them as sincere beliefs. A fifteen your old isn't really capable of having any concrete views.
Secondly, it may surprise you to learn that people sometimes act in a hypocritical manner. Self-interest so often takes priority over principles, especially if you're a pregnant 15-year old who's life appears to be circling the drain.

Now, that's not to say that this is an irrelevant observation in itself, but you draw conclusions from it which are not self-evident, and rely on certain, so far unfounded assumptions. Of course, you seem to have constructed it in such a way so as to demand the following bugbear...

she goes to the nurse discovers she's pregnent, the nurse a liberal hippy or whatever pressures her into getting an abortion - the nurse obviously a product of crazy marxist university system thought it would empower her to kill her unborn child.

This paragraph consists entirely of vapid, useless things, so I will not even attempt to challenge. Those who understand what I mean can see for themselves, those do not never will.

seems quite likely to me

I'm sure it does, but you've gone to great lengths to demonstrate your ability to believe the unbelievable. You're special in that way.

u do need an imagination TF

If it means sacrificing my ability to reason, then I may just chose to do without.

 

[MobBoss]

I see nothing wrong with it.

Are you a parent?

As a parent, I have a lot of problems with this. And I think a lot of parents would as well.

 

[Camikaze]

Are you a parent?

As a parent, I have a lot of problems with this. And I think a lot of parents would as well.

Parents don't like the law?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I am pleasantly surprised to see that Washington has such progressive laws protecting the rights of an honor student from the opinions of her parents.

Here is a much better article about it:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/teen-abortion-high-school/story?id=10189694&page=2

And just for grins, here is how the John Birch Society views things:

This latest incident in Seattle is indicative of yet another problem, however, which may have facilitated an abortion in this case, but is even larger in its scope. That problem is part of our failed “public” education system. Cultural conservatives, many of whom have turned to either private schooling or home schooling, correctly label those schools supported by taxpayer dollars as “government schools.” While the government in question was once local and sensitive to parental influence, the prevalence of federal tax dollars channeled through our federal Department of Education to the states and below amounts to a federal takeover of education in this nation. Federal bureaucrats always control what they fund and that control includes the curriculum, teaching methods, and control over students’ lives implemented in our “public” schools. Parents who send their children to such schools are not only subjecting their offspring to brainwashing extolling the virtues of the federal welfare state — they are actually surrendering physical control of their children to the state.

It is this surrender of parental control that makes outrageous incidents such as the Seattle abortion case possible, and even common.

The episode of Jill’s daughter being sent for an abortion is the intersection of two federal intrusions into the authority of the previously sovereign states: First, federal usurpation of the states’ authority to punish a crime (abortion) and, second, federal control over the parents' authority to educate and discipline his own children until they reach legal majority. With these two forces meeting in our government schools, they form a “perfect storm” of totalitarianism.

 

[MobBoss]

Parents don't like the law?

I think the mother in the OP should have been notified of her 15 year old daughters issue. I dont think thats unreasonable.

 

[Camikaze]

I think the mother in the OP should have been notified of her 15 year old daughters issue. I dont think thats unreasonable.

So a child does not have any right to privacy? Shouldn't the person in question be able to make a decision in accordance with the law without having the pressure of her parents forced onto her? Would the parent's views on the matter actually lead to a more positive outcome?

 

[MobBoss]

So a child does not have any right to privacy?

Not from their parents, no. Knowing what your child is doing and going through is part of being an involved and good parent.

Kids dont always know whats good for them. Thats simply a fact of life.

Shouldn't the person in question be able to make a decision in accordance with the law without having the pressure of her parents forced onto her? Would the parent's views on the matter actually lead to a more positive outcome?

Can a 15 year old consent to sex with an adult in the state of Washington?

No.

Then why should a 15 year old be allowed to consent to a medical procedure that can have long term and life changing implications?

Parents should be notified. There is nothing irresponsible about that what-so-ever.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

The reason I can think of for it being confidential is because some parents might get really upset with their kids for getting pregnant and bad things happen. This is just an opinion.

 

[Traitorfish]

Can a 15 year old consent to sex with an adult in the state of Washington?

No.

Then why should a 15 year old be allowed to consent to a medical procedure that can have long term and life changing implications?

Parents should be notified. There is nothing irresponsible about that what-so-ever.

Does doctor-patient confidentiality extend to those below the age of consent, though? That is certainly a factor, whether any limitations are dictated by federal or state law.

 

[Quackers]

Firstly, all we have is the woman's word for it, and parent's are ever keen to inflict their views upon children and represent them as sincere beliefs. A fifteen your old isn't really capable of having any concrete views.
Secondly, it may surprise you to learn that people sometimes act in a hypocritical manner. Self-interest so often takes priority over principles, especially if you're a pregnant 15-year old who's life appears to be circling the drain.

Now, that's not to say that this is an irrelevant observation in itself, but you draw conclusions from it which are not self-evident, and rely on certain, so far unfounded assumptions. Of course, you seem to have constructed it in such a way so as to demand the following bugbear...


This paragraph consists entirely of vapid, useless things, so I will not even attempt to challenge. Those who understand what I mean can see for themselves, those do not never will.


I'm sure it does, but you've gone to great lengths to demonstrate your ability to believe the unbelievable. You're special in that way.


If it means sacrificing my ability to reason, then I may just chose to do without.

I think 15 year olds are more mature than you think and can have there own views. You are a classic leftist always assuming the worst of people. I think a 15 year old can have concrete views.
Being pregnant at 15 is not the end of the world. It's possible in many parts of the western world to make a career out of it.

can't challenge my lucid polemic ehh? dw i won't hold it against u

imagination and critical thinking are not muturally exclusive...

 

[Shadylookin]

Not from their parents, no. Knowing what your child is doing and going through is part of being an involved and good parent.

Kids dont always know whats good for them. Thats simply a fact of life.

Perhaps parents should have created an environment where their teenagers are willing to discuss these issues if they're that concerned. The kid obviously spilled the beans anyhow.

 

[Dreadnought]

Hurray! Let's all destroy family values so we can get little girls an abortion!

Just kidding, that was sarcasm. I think this is ridiculous. Clearly anyone who argues in favor of this measure has never thought of being a parent, let alone been one.

 

[PiMan]

imagination and critical thinking are not muturally exclusive...

Of course not, but you appear to have forgone one in favour of the other, when it was not necessary to do so.