An interesting read

EdCase

Defender of the Faithless
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I received this from a good friend via e-mail. I found it thought provoking how about you ?

Subject: Serious food for thought.

This is the most cogent and powerful essay on the threat of
Islamic terrorism I have seen It is without a doubt the most articulate and convincing writing I have read regarding the War in Iraq. If you have any doubts please open your mind to his essay and give it a fair evaluation. It's also eerily applicable to other current issues such as Iran's nuclear program, immigration, NAFTA's impact on American jobs,
trade deficits, etc.. I had no idea who Dr. Chong is, or the source of these thoughts, so when I received them I almost deleted them, as well-written as they are. But then I did a Google search on the Doctor and found him to be a retired Air Force surgeon and past commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio.

If you would like to see who this fellow is, go to this Air Force web site and look him up:

http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5000

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Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA : A different spin on Iraq war.

This WAR is for REAL!

Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military Complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* A! den, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Repub licans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford.

3. Who were the attackers?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World?

25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian (?)),
that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).

(see http://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm )

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about
killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, British, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing
-- by their own pronouncements
-- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be olitically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions:

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our busines s, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over
the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we are impotent and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq . Spain did it because the Muslim terror ists bombed
their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20%
Muslim and fading fast!

Without our support Great Britain will go too. Recently I read that there are more mosques in England than hurches.

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else?

The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of
Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men betwee n 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously?
This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose
all of them permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it a lmost seems they would literally like to see us lose.

I think some actually do, I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great
damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small
group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. !

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemicall y killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and
dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners
they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but humiliating" them.

Can they be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the d isastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say,
this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.

These people are a serious and dangerous liability to the war effort. We must take note of who they are and get them out of office. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but
throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many yea rs as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self- inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allo w history books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions.

The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.

Muslims have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over whom will be the few who control the masses.

What is happening in Iraq is a good example. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now, after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it. I reiterate. A national election is months away.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world. Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our "leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!

Lastly, I wish to add: At the risk of offending someone, I sincerely think that anyone who rejects this as just another political rant, or doubts the seriousness of this issue or just deletes it without sending it on, is part of the problem. Let's quit laughing at and forwarding the jokes and cartoons which denigrate and ridicule our leaders in this war against terror.. They are trying to protect the interests and well being of the US and it's citizens. Best we support
them.
 
Wow, that is probably the most purile, clichéd, right-wing thing I've read on these boards in a while. He even downplays the holocaust.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammo!
 
If by 'interesting read', you mean 'paranoid and belicose Right-wing rant', then yes, it was very interesting indeed.

'Fraid my eyes started rolling as soon as I saw the old "It's because dey is JEALOUS!!!" line at the top.

My eyes were rolling so much that they traced 4-dimensional hyperspheres when I got to the "If you think I'm ranting, you're just part of the problem!" and "Don't mock our noble leaders!" bit. LOL. If I met Mr Chong, I think I'd be all "OK dude. Just put the pipe-bomb down, there's a good chap...".

Some reasonable points in the middle. Yes, some things are too lax. Yes, Europe could certainly do more. But let's not start being draconian to all Muslims. Being all argy-bargy with the Muslim populations just makes the problem worse. Oh, and the French - pointing them out as a bad example is always a winner with Neo-Cons, so quelle suprise that they get a mention here, eh? But those tubs don't thump themselves, I suppose.

My advice to people who find themselves loving this letter: Pull out the cork, release all that pent-up truthiness and philosophical-machismo in one almighty fart, realize that this 'interesting read' is basically alarmist tub-thumping.
 
As far as 'winning' and 'losing', I believe one of the keys to victory is to make 'them' fight eachother (and therefore not 'us' - in all seriousness). Then all we need to do, is make it appear that we're in no way orchestrating such a plan, to ensure they never figure it out and turn on us. So, we need to have 'noble intentions', while they kill themselves more than they kill us. -Because they're gonna kill somebody... might as well not be us.

Suddenly Iraq makes a bit more sense, eh? :hmm:
 
I didn't think anyone really believed the THEY HATE US BECAUSE OF OUR FREEDOMS! BS until now.
 
If by 'interesting read', you mean 'paranoid and belicose Right-wing rant', then yes, it was very interesting indeed.

'Fraid my eyes started rolling as soon as I saw the old "It's because dey is JEALOUS!!!" line at the top.

My eyes were rolling so much that they traced 4-dimensional hyperspheres when I got to the "If you think I'm ranting, you're just part of the problem!" and "Don't mock our noble leaders!" bit. LOL. If I met Mr Chong, I think I'd be all "OK dude. Just put the pipe-bomb down, there's a good chap...".

Some reasonable points in the middle. Yes, some things are too lax. Yes, Europe could certainly do more. But let's not start being draconian to all Muslims. Being all argy-bargy with the Muslim populations just makes the problem worse. Oh, and the French - pointing them out as a bad example is always a winner with Neo-Cons, so quelle suprise that they get a mention here, eh? But those tubs don't thump themselves, I suppose.

My advice to people who find themselves loving this letter: Pull out the cork, release all that pent-up truthiness and philosophical-machismo in one almighty fart, realize that this 'interesting read' is basically alarmist tub-thumping.

The Lombard wins this thread! :lol:
 
I didn't think anyone really believed the THEY HATE US BECAUSE OF OUR FREEDOMS! BS until now.

I did...if only because it was shouted enough times by your average person a few years back. A few classes or reads could show plenty of other reasons for the attack, but to boil it down to "We're free and they don't like that, so they'll spend all their time to come here and attack us," is not only insanely simplistic, but it doesn't mesh with the motivations behind it.

If there is a saving grace to it, at least the guy didn't go into some odd rant about how Clinton planned it all with the Freemasons and the Boston Red Sox.

This Vernon Chong sounds like the evil twin of Tommy Chong. Maybe he needs to get some of those chill pills.
 
Ah! the wonders of selective thinking. Nowhere did I say I endorsed or condoned these views.
I simply stated it was an interesting read and thought provoking.
Mein Kamf is an interesting read.
The ideology of scientology is an interesting read.

Anything that espouses a viewpoint contrary to your own is interesting.

Jumping on the soapbox either in favor or against is just as (as it was so eloquently stated) tub thumping, as the the original statement.

Oh and warpus please amend your quote...I posted it, but I did not write it.
 
Yeah I fell for that they hate our freedoms . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. . to. Even my god damn high school teachers were shouting it at me.
 
Anything that espouses a viewpoint contrary to your own is interesting.

It is interesting, if only because it takes a scenic route to a destination fairly well-traveled. Because I can stomach such things, I didn't stop with the whole "they hate us for our freedom" spiel, since I've heard that ten thousand times before. But where he really lost me was when he doesn't seem to acknowledge that there were reasons to be critical of the leadership (especially with Donald Rumsfeld still as SecDef, since I assume that's who he's referring to) and on the whole "France will be controlled by Muslims in five years, the UK will fall next," so on, so on. It does not seem to acknowledge the problems that are in those countries with regards to extremists and cells, but it takes it completely overboard by predicting that these Christendom stalwarts would soon fall to the dark side.

So, that's that.
 
So the Muslim populations in countries with their minorities should be expecting to give up slightly more civil liberties then?

Coherently written, but not logically thought out.
 
Let me explain why I belive it is thought provoking for me.
It was sent to me by a good friend (ex-military like myself) who was somewhat taken aback that I told him "Interesting indeed. Surely you don't buy into it?"
Apparently he did. At this juncture I began to wonder how many others would read this and agree with it.
CFC seemed the obvious place to light the fuse.......;)
 
Ah! the wonders of selective thinking. Nowhere did I say I endorsed or condoned these views.
I simply stated it was an interesting read and thought provoking.
Mein Kamf is an interesting read.
The ideology of scientology is an interesting read.

True enough - and just so you know, I didn't assume outright that you held the views. :) I suspected you might, since people often have a bit of an anti-rant if they post something they don't agree with, but I didn't know for sure, so I didn't make any comment at/to/on you personally.
 
Someone should tell that jingoist moron that the world is not obsessed with American success and wealth... in fact, there is plenty of admiration of that and of the American ideals and so on, even in the Middle East, but violent hatred is usually caused by legimate grievances.
 
True enough - and just so you know, I didn't assume outright that you held the views. :) I suspected you might, since people often have a bit of an anti-rant if they post something they don't agree with, but I didn't know for sure, so I didn't make any comment at/to/on you personally.

Thank you for that. Not much of a ranter... usually have a quiet internal chuckle. Getting older dowsed my fires a little.:)
 
I agree with the article.

Islamofacists are OBVIOUSLY anti-democracy. To install their form of government (Shia Law) is one of their STATED purposes. That they hate freedom is a given. And no, I do not mean ALL Muslims, just the one's in charge of countries. There is not one democracy of all of the islamic countries; yet, you assume they are just hunky-dory with freedom? Don't be naive.

It also goes without saying that they evny our position and success. As power-hungry hate-mongers, yes, simply put - they are jealous. They want to rule the world, but the US does. And it pisses them off.

"Grievances" hah! If they have any grievances, they should be regarding their tyranical mass-murdering governments. Grievances! Victims! BS, no way.

I believe that the OP article did a fine job of outlining MY grievances, from 1979 to 2001 (and including 7500 terrorist attacks since 1981). If anyone has a legitamate grievance, it is the innocent people (and those who represent them) who were killed by terrorist attacks. If anyone deserves justice, it is the women and children and innocent men killed intentionally by terrorists.

Cry me a river, Iran, because your people are going to need it (to drink from) after the US addresses our own grievances.
 
And no, I do not mean ALL Muslims, just the one's in charge of countries.

What countries?

You do realise that the most hidiously repressive and anti-democratic regimes in the Middle east, are your buddies?
 
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