AND SVN Build Thread

No I didn't change the version number. I figured most ppl keep a copy of the last SVN export and name the folder appropriately. Guess not huh?

JosEPh
 
No I didn't change the version number. I figured most ppl keep a copy of the last SVN export and name the folder appropriately. Guess not huh?

JosEPh

Don't worry, I've updated rev number now to rev615 and I've updated civ4 ImprovementInfos to make city ruins and goody hut again available in WB. :)
 
I still think the underlying issue is that the mod has too many sickness causing "things", you clearly don't agree. So be it.

Just a moment, I'm not sure I don't agree with you. But there are issues to be discussed. For example, what difficulty level are you playing at? If it's something like deity or immortal, it's just a matter of difficulty level because you get extra unhealtiness and angry people depending on your difficulty level.

So, what option will turn off invulnrable 1st ring and city tile culture?

I'm not sure about it; if it's not "realistic culture spread", I don't think it's an option anymore. It's probably something which has been hard coded in the dll. I'll have to look and if it's possible to make it an option again, I'm willing to do it.

Btw on your last point, I'll say it again - never EVER seen it a single time. No culture wars at all over 1st ring and city tile culture as far as I can tell with this mod active. No revolts, no requests to join my empire, no unrest, just nothing at all. What settings you are using vs what I'm using that prevents this, I'd really like to know.

I guess the only relevant option I'm using is Revolution

16. Religions seem rather unbalanced with a few being obviously better choices to try and found vs others. Hellenism and Taoism with their free/special unit promotions especially seem objectively better than some of the plain jane others with no special benefits of their own. Yeah it's a kind of strategic choice but I seriously doubt the AI considers these kinds of things in their research paths. Some of the religion-restricted wonders and abilities are strong as I said above, others are very weak/non-existant so from a strategic balancing on which one(s) you're trying to found it doesn't make the choices too hard to make I've found.

Well, I usually run for Judaism, and I've seen no relation so far between the winning civ and the chosen or founded religion. But religions are one thing to look into, I agree.

17. Civics are a mess, full stop. Overly complicated at times, out of left field for some of the bonuses and penalties at others, and occasionally completely useless and never ever a good choice that a player would actually want to use at still other times. I can see it already has a thread and disussion going on issues with them however so I'll leave it to that place. They do need work I think it goes without saying, I may perhaps add in some specific comments in that thread.

As you've noted, civics WILL be definetly changed. :)

18. Some of the new random events are a real kick in the face and downright unfair in their frequency. The mercenaries one in particular is insane. I got it 6 times in a row in a game I had awhile back, not kidding or exagerating in the least. Some of these events were only 3 or 4 turns apart which is just "oh F-off RNG" time for me - open up WB and delete that crap that spawns in the middle of my empire on the one unclaimed tile possible, no guilt at all. Some tweaks or cool downs is needed here as it's a pretty brutal event even once, having it happen multiple times nearly in a row is just... not good.

Never happened to me, but it could be related to gamespeed. Which gamespeed where you playing with?

19. More on events, this time some weirdness (bugs?). See below screenshot:

I've seen some of these have been answered in previous posts. More comments will follow from me also, but right now I've got to go to work. ;)
 
Event Text
The Harry Potter, Dock Workers' Strike, and a few other events have a text problem that causes it to appear as though it's happening in YOUR civilization when it really isn't. The problem is that these events use [CT_EMPIRE] to try and call the Dynamic Civilization Name for that empire, and it calls your empire's name instead. The events from the basic game use a string starting with % to call the nationality adjective instead (you may notice that they always refer to the triggering civ as the Something Empire regardless of its dynamic name). I don't know how to use the Dynamic Civ Names properly at the moment, as I don't know exactly where CT_EMPIRE comes from. It's buried somewhere in the DLL code, and I can't read that as well as I can read XML. Changing the text files to use the % convention will solve that problem.

Thank you for the spot Vokarya! I've noticed before events happening somewhere else were reported as happening in my empire. I'll have a look at the dll and I think I can solve the problem! :)
 
Sorry, wasn't trying to make a post at all, but I had focus on quick reply instead of the search bar. This is embarrassing.

Anyways, I'm a huge fan, keep up the great work. Will be testing out the latest SVN revision in a bit; this mod keeps bringing me back from V even with its pretty graphics.
 
Thanks gbs5009. :)

And Welcome to AND2.0

JosEPh
 
Event Text
The Harry Potter, Dock Workers' Strike, and a few other events have a text problem that causes it to appear as though it's happening in YOUR civilization when it really isn't. The problem is that these events use [CT_EMPIRE] to try and call the Dynamic Civilization Name for that empire, and it calls your empire's name instead. The events from the basic game use a string starting with % to call the nationality adjective instead (you may notice that they always refer to the triggering civ as the Something Empire regardless of its dynamic name). I don't know how to use the Dynamic Civ Names properly at the moment, as I don't know exactly where CT_EMPIRE comes from. It's buried somewhere in the DLL code, and I can't read that as well as I can read XML. Changing the text files to use the % convention will solve that problem.

Ok, to solve the problem at least temporarily, I've updated text files to use % instead of [CT_EMPIRE]. In the future I'll look deeper into the code so that we can use Dynamic Civ Names. Changes will be uploaded in the next revision.
 
Please 45* remove/disable the Harry Potter Event all together. It's prejudiced and derogatory.

We had this discussion in C2C and Ori was going to change it. But since RL is restricting his participation in the Mod the Team just disabled it.

JosEPh
 
Please 45* remove/disable the Harry Potter Event all together. It's prejudiced and derogatory.

We had this discussion in C2C and Ori was going to change it. But since RL is restricting his participation in the Mod the Team just disabled it.

JosEPh

Although I disagree on HPE being prejudiced and derogatory, it's ok with me, I'll disable it in the next revision. Or I will make up something to change it. :)
 
For the last few months I have been playing on the first revision that made fixed borders optional again. Last week I have gone ahead and updated to the latest build. In the past few months, modifications have been made to certain production buildings, promotions, tech cost per era and whatnot. I have played a game using the latest version well into the industrial era and am now just entering the modern era. Here is some initial feedback:

1) I was very glad to see the difference in cost for techs particularly in the industrial era. However I feel that the tech costs in the industrial era are slightly too high. I would propose mitigating this by reducing tech costs in this era by 10%. I dont feel too strongly on this issue though as I am still in "first impression" mode.

2) Production is way too high once one is reaching the end of the industrial era. This is because forges now stack with foundries, which stack with steel mills, which stack with factories. I was able to build the pentagon in 3 turns and rock and roll in 1 turn (!!!) in one of my cities. The fix for this is to have forges replaced by factories / steel mills and to make sure that foundries get obsolete at some point like they used to (I am guessing with the assembly line tech). This will reduce production by 30%.

Extra note: The argument that implementing the above would make it too long to build things in the industrial era would not hold water. This is because the significant increase in tech costs in the industrial era means that most of the time, your cities have everything built and end up in research mode. In short, the tech cost increase in itself has solved the production problem as there is much more time to build things due to increased research costs.

3) This is by far the most important point and I regret to have to report this: in the latest release there has been a significant increase in end of turn times once one reaches the industrial era. In the release that I have been playing over the last few months (the first one that made fixed borders optional), even in the transhuman era, end turns were never more than 10 or 20 seconds for me. I have played quite a few games and there has not been a single game in that release that has gone slower. Now in my first game playing the latest release, in late industrial era, I am looking at 1 minute and 20 seconds for end of turn times. I have not changed my game settings in this version; I still play on a huge map with about 12 civs.

If the saves are backward compatible, I can try reverting to a previous release and testing the difference in end turn times to make absolutely certain that this change is related to this version and not to a freak incidence in my particular game. However considering the huge disparity of end of turn times I am leaning towards this issue being tied to this latest release(s). Again, I have not made an update in the last few months so this problem may have accumulated unnoticed until now.
 
1) I was very glad to see the difference in cost for techs particularly in the industrial era. However I feel that the tech costs in the industrial era are slightly too high. I would propose mitigating this by reducing tech costs in this era by 10%. I dont feel too strongly on this issue though as I am still in "first impression" mode.

What gamespeed are you playing at? It's important because research and production are also gamespeed-dependant. I had to increase tech costs because of the tech diffusion option: hadn't I increased tech costs, people playing with tech diffusion would experience way too fast tech discoveries; on the other side, reducing tech diffusion, will cause most of the civs fall behind too quickly, as it was in previous versions.

2) Production is way too high once one is reaching the end of the industrial era. This is because forges now stack with foundries, which stack with steel mills, which stack with factories. I was able to build the pentagon in 3 turns and rock and roll in 1 turn (!!!) in one of my cities. The fix for this is to have forges replaced by factories / steel mills and to make sure that foundries get obsolete at some point like they used to (I am guessing with the assembly line tech). This will reduce production by 30%.

I partially agree, but again it depends also on your gamespeed. The problem is that reducing production also means slower research rate and that will mean that rebalancing will be necessary again. I'd like to have Joseph's opinion on this one.

Extra note: The argument that implementing the above would make it too long to build things in the industrial era would not hold water. This is because the significant increase in tech costs in the industrial era means that most of the time, your cities have everything built and end up in research mode. In short, the tech cost increase in itself has solved the production problem as there is much more time to build things due to increased research costs.

I agree.

3) This is by far the most important point and I regret to have to report this: in the latest release there has been a significant increase in end of turn times once one reaches the industrial era. In the release that I have been playing over the last few months (the first one that made fixed borders optional), even in the transhuman era, end turns were never more than 10 or 20 seconds for me. I have played quite a few games and there has not been a single game in that release that has gone slower. Now in my first game playing the latest release, in late industrial era, I am looking at 1 minute and 20 seconds for end of turn times. I have not changed my game settings in this version; I still play on a huge map with about 12 civs.

No changes have been made which could slow down the game. It could be just a random problem with your game, or, more probably, something related to the higher production (or better, to more units being on the map at the same time).
To tell the truth, I haven't noticed any significant slowdown but I usually play on large maps. I'll try it myself anyway.
Thanks for the report Arkatakor. :)

By the way, another revision is on the way soon this weekend I think.
 
2. So you've went 180* on your original complaint? Which was addressed thru the forge line. :hmm: And are now not liking 45*'s Tech rebalancing? When (timeframe) did you have the ability to Build the Pentagon? If it was Industrial or Modern Era then 3 turns may not be too fast if playing a fast gamespeed. Iirc Rock n Roll is a low cost Wonder, it's build cost should be looked into for comparison.

3. If you didn't save any previous SVN versions, then yes you can use the svn and use Revert to go back to any past version. Load the save, do a re-calc, and it should play.

By the way mbrady10 just reported that he could play the mod to the finish with low EoT times.
mbrady10 wrote: but on the huge maps I play, at similar stages through the game (modern era) AND has amazing 15-20 sec, while C2C is heading towards 2 and a half minutes. For this fact alone, AND has become the only big mod that I can play. Amazing.

Long EoT late game are All related to the # of Civs, # of Cities in each Civ, # of Units (both MIl and worker), and the # of Revolutions that are or have been occurring and finally map size.

JosEPh
 
@45:

I am playing on normal speed but I might have customized it a little. I will check on this and get back to you.

2. So you've went 180* on your original complaint? Which was addressed thru the forge line. :hmm: And are now not liking 45*'s Tech rebalancing?
If you recall, I made the proposal of extra hammers for iron, copper and lead for forges to address the early game production problem. I never suggested that all the production buildings should stack. Now we have 30% extra production rate in late industrial era which is totally overkill. And this does not even include the stacking of base hammers for resource bonuses (copper, iron and lead) that both steel mill and forge now provide. As stated earlier, the substantial increase in tech costs alone in the industrial era has addressed the issue of slow production. Thus I propose that the 30% extra production rate that comes with the latest release be axed and techs cost per era reduced slightly to accommodate. To do this I would make the foundry obsolete with assembly line, and have the forge replaced by the steel mill.
 
This was an unintentional post; I meant to edit my previous post.

EDIT: I think I found the source of the problem. I just noticed that the steel mill gives a 40% production bonus up from 15% (!!!!). So I propose reducing it to 15% and making the foundry obsolete with assembly line. That way forges can be kept and not be forced to morph into steel mills.
 
The problem with obsoleting the forge when Foundry became available and then Foundry when Factory came on line was the Total Loss of Production from switch/loosing Forge till the time it took to Build a Foundry.

Nor is there really a good reason to obsolete the forge when foundry becomes available and then factory either.

As stated earlier, the substantial increase in tech costs alone in the industrial era has addressed the issue of slow production.
I just don't follow this statement. If techs cost more they take longer to research. If you are getting Tech benefits slower how does this "address the issue of slow production"?

Production rates have not been changed since the version 604 release, when 45* finished his rebalance After the production line changes of version 600 and 602.

I don't like obsolescence, but replacement might have merit. But then again new cities founded in later Eras would have to spend a great deal of time on just getting a foundry or factory built if the lower forge boost to production is not available.

I'm not sure I like this suggestion either to be truthful. But I'm sure 45* will have a different take on it anyway. More discussion I guess.

EDIT: Got :ninja: 'd by your 2nd post Ark.
EDIT2: Reducing Steel mill prod % is very doable but maybe not down to 15%.
JosEPh
 
The problem with obsoleting the forge when Foundry became available and then Foundry when Factory came on line was the Total Loss of Production from switch/loosing Forge till the time it took to Build a Foundry.

Nor is there really a good reason to obsolete the forge when foundry becomes available and then factory either.
I am not proposing this; I am proposing obsoleting the foundry with steel, not assembly line (just looked it up) and reducing steel mill benefits to 15%. In my proposition, forges would continue to co-exist with factories and steel mills. Also I propose removing the maintenance costs of townclock as this is in the middle age era where production rates are not too fast.

I just don't follow this statement. If techs cost more they take longer to research. If you are getting Tech benefits slower how does this "address the issue of slow production"?
Let me try and explain this; Lets assume tech A and B each allow the construction of 1 new building. Assume that each of those buildings takes 4 turns to build, and that your tech rate for A and B was 2 turns per tech. That means the building granted from tech A will only be 50% completed by the time your reach tech B, and you would still have to add to your backlog the building that has now just been granted by B. This is slow production rate.

Assume in the above scenario that instead of having a discover rate of 2 turns per tech, its 8 turns per tech. That means that when you discover tech B, your building from tech A is already completed (after 4 turns) and you still have another 4 turns before the next building is granted you. When you do reach tech B, you can immediately start building the building granted by that tech (as you have no building backlog) and your building will be completed before you reach the next tech. I hope this makes things more clear.

45°38'N-13°47'E;12241603 said:
No changes have been made which could slow down the game. It could be just a random problem with your game, or, more probably, something related to the higher production (or better, to more units being on the map at the same time).
To tell the truth, I haven't noticed any significant slowdown but I usually play on large maps. I'll try it myself anyway.
Thanks for the report Arkatakor. :)
Thanks for this. I am assuming then that this is due to the sheer amount of units due to the phenomenal increase in production rates.
 
Rev 616 changelog

  • UN Secretary cannot have 2 terms consecutively (CVgame.cpp), compiled DLL
  • United Nations is now a Project
  • Reintroduced UN Mission (max 3 in the world) which grants eligibility as UN Secretary (requires UN Nation to be built by someone)
  • Minimum Candidates # for UN Secretary is now 4
  • Disabled Harry Poter Event (for the moment)
  • Storm Events now only happen if "No Storm" is not checked in BUG Options
  • Fixed code for Events showing as happening in your empire when in fact they happen somewhere else
  • Threshold to be elected UN Secretary is now lowered to 34 (from 40) because there are more candidates

I will do some test to consider changes in production but I don't think it's a major issue right now.
I will also consider making UN Secretary 2 terms possible, but it will require more coding.

Edit: there could be a problem with AP resident election in this rev, I'm currently trying to solve it; I might need to revert back to the previous rev for that part of the dll code.
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;12242089 said:
Rev 616 changelog

  • United Nations is now a Project

Is there a way we could keep the UN as a building? Maybe by triggering a project on the building's completion? I know buildings don't have the <EveryoneSpecialBuilding> tag, but I feel like anything that is an actual structure should be a Wonder. Also, I feel like you shouldn't be forced to build both the UN Project and UN Mission at once (whoever gets the UN should be automatically eligible). I like the Mission for eligibility, but I'm not so sure about making the baseline a Project.

Also, what happens to the Secretary-General on consecutive votes if there is only one civilization left? It can happen in Mastery victories.
 
Is there a way we could keep the UN as a building? Maybe by triggering a project on the building's completion? I know buildings don't have the <EveryoneSpecialBuilding> tag, but I feel like anything that is an actual structure should be a Wonder. Also, I feel like you shouldn't be forced to build both the UN Project and UN Mission at once (whoever gets the UN should be automatically eligible). I like the Mission for eligibility, but I'm not so sure about making the baseline a Project.

Also, what happens to the Secretary-General on consecutive votes if there is only one civilization left? It can happen in Mastery victories.

I know, I'm trying to change the mod so that UN can still be a wonder and grant eligibility (which cannot be granted by a project); I've released this part as it is now so that people can try it and tell me their feelings about it, but it's not finished yet.
As for your question, well, if there's only 1 civilization left, you can be the only one elected. When the next election triggers, you can only abstain and on the next election again, you'll be able to be elected (and in fact you will, being the only candidate). I don't think it's a problem because being the only civ in the world, you don't need UN anymore... what's the use in passing resolutions if you apply them only to yourself?
 
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