AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Sorry, as usual - bug in production overflow...

Now I have raw value 105 hummers, and current value - 2233. It is not only "city screen numbers", I can really construct 35 argebusers at one move.

How did that happened?
Overflow from previous build (593 ) was added current production ( 105 ) and then multiplied on current modificators.
I suppose, overflow from previous build must be divided on modificators from previous build before adding current turn production.
Rev 777

Well, I think I've fixed it but now there's something else which looks strange. I recall in some cases overflow was converted to gold, even when you were running multiple production. Which is kind of strange, to tell the truth, since there should be no residual overflow, unless you choose to idle your city after you've finished your production. After my changes (I've not yet uploaded the fix), there's no gold produced by overflow. But I think there should be when you don't use multiple production, while there isn't and possibly there wasn't even before my yesterday fix. So, is anyone really understanding how production overflow and multiple production are working? Because I thought I knew it but not I'm not so sure about it anymore.

 

[Afforess]

Well, I think I've fixed it but now there's something else which looks strange. I recall in some cases overflow was converted to gold, even when you were running multiple production. Which is kind of strange, to tell the truth, since there should be no residual overflow, unless you choose to idle your city after you've finished your production. After my changes (I've not yet uploaded the fix), there's no gold produced by overflow. But I think there should be when you don't use multiple production, while there isn't and possibly there wasn't even before my yesterday fix. So, is anyone really understanding how production overflow and multiple production are working? Because I thought I knew it but not I'm not so sure about it anymore.

With multiple production you can still get gold from overflow, in a situation where your overflow > max production possible per turn.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

With multiple production you can still get gold from overflow, in a situation where your overflow > max production possible per turn.

Are you sure?
Say I'm using multiple production and my city is producing 40 hammers; I'm putting 2 galleys on production (16 hammers each), so next turns I have 2 galleys and 8 hammers overflow. In the current situation these 8 hammers are being added (with no multipliers or whatever) to the next production, unless I choose to idle the city. Should they be converted into gold? Because they aren't and I don't think it depends on my yesterday changes.
Same situation but I'm not using multiple production. Next turn I have just 1 galley (no MP!) and 24 hammers overflow; what should happen with this overflow? I think it should be converted in gold, but right now it simply keeps accumulating. I haven't tried any game without MP recently, was it happening like that even before yours and my changes? Does somebody know it?

 

[Afforess]

Are you sure?

Quite.

Say I'm using multiple production and my city is producing 40 hammers; I'm putting 2 galleys on production (16 hammers each), so next turns I have 2 galleys and 8 hammers overflow. In the current situation these 8 hammers are being added (with no multipliers or whatever) to the next production, unless I choose to idle the city. Should they be converted into gold?

Nope. What I said is that overflow > max production possible should be converted into gold.

Say you are working on a wonder, worth 1000 and produce 50 a turn. One turn before you finish, someone else beats you, leaving 950 overflow. Since 950 > 50 (your max possible production), you get that overflow into gold.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Quite.


Nope. What I said is that overflow > max production possible should be converted into gold.

Say you are working on a wonder, worth 1000 and produce 50 a turn. One turn before you finish, someone else beats you, leaving 950 overflow. Since 950 > 50 (your max possible production), you get that overflow into gold.

Ok, I think I've got it. Then I'm going to check if everything is working when MP is off and I'll upload the fix.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Sorry, as usual - bug in production overflow...

Now I have raw value 105 hummers, and current value - 2233. It is not only "city screen numbers", I can really construct 35 argebusers at one move.

How did that happened?
Overflow from previous build (593 ) was added current production ( 105 ) and then multiplied on current modificators.
I suppose, overflow from previous build must be divided on modificators from previous build before adding current turn production.
Rev 777

val, please let me know if this has been fixed for you in rev779. Thank you.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I've never noticed before but I suppose this problem/feature is here since a while. When a city is starving, the first citizen to die is an employed one. So even if I have plenty of other citizens, each building employing a citizen will stop working. I recall it happened to me in the past with power plants but I didn't pay much attention to this effect. Now that Afforess has modified some other buildings to employ citizens, I've noticed it happen. I'm not sure if this is something we have to correct anyway (next turn the problem solves by itself, IIRC).

Edit: Correction, the problem doesn't solve by itself: it only does so if the city reaches again the same population, so I think this is something we have to fix.

 

[Rezca]

I only just noticed, but my Privateers aren't picking up any cash from blockading coastal cities from a friendly civ I'm at peace with. They're blocking the tiles, but no gold is being generated. Is this from the removal of Trade Routes? Or does switching out of the civic(s) that allow the training of Privateers prevent them from generating income from blockades? (I switched out of Mercantile recently)

 

[val3]

val, please let me know if this has been fixed for you in rev779. Thank you.

Hi, I've started a new game.
All looks fine by me, except one tricky case i'll write.
I think, the great check of multiple production will be in medieval/industral era, because it's "blitz" and "one city challenge", and i really hope on multiple production to win.

Tricky case: ( I don't know the correct behaviour, it is for discussion).

I have +365% for catapults ( heroic epic, siege weapons workshop etc.). 32 hammers raw. It does give me 32 * 4.65 = 139 hammers per turn with modificators for catapults.


Move 195: in production stack only 1 catapult, it was builded yet on 75% ( 45 of 60 hammers ).
Move 196: I have overflow 139 - 15 = 124 hammers. But game didn't give gold for this overflow, as i expected ( i was lack of gold).
But now i have 124 hammers, so it is easy to build, for example, some wonder ( when i have only +30% modificators ). I will have 124 + 32 * 1.3 = 165 hammers for this wonder.
And one may say: it is not logical. If I've builded this two turns wonder, then I'll have only 32 * 1.3 * 2 = 82 hammers for it. But now I have 165 hammers and a catapult

It is some kind of exploiting the game using microcontrol. With +365% for catapults, I can get a huge production and gold bonus for all. I know, something like this was in Vanilla too, but with big modificators of ROM:AND you can get really huge bonus using it. But may be it is good, bonus for people which thinking and analysing.

The solution to prevent exploit is: to divide each time overflow hummers on coefficients from previous build. In this case 124 will divided on 4.65 and it was about 27 overflow. Then added 32 I'll have 59 raw production ( so, now we add overflow BEFORE multiplying on modificators ) and 59 * 1.3 = 77 hammers for wonder OR 59 * 4.65 = 274 hummers for catapults.

I've looked into code - seems it will be not easy and non-trivial change, so that is the situation.

 

[Afforess]

I've never noticed before but I suppose this problem/feature is here since a while. When a city is starving, the first citizen to die is an employed one. So even if I have plenty of other citizens, each building employing a citizen will stop working. I recall it happened to me in the past with power plants but I didn't pay much attention to this effect. Now that Afforess has modified some other buildings to employ citizens, I've noticed it happen. I'm not sure if this is something we have to correct anyway (next turn the problem solves by itself, IIRC).

Edit: Correction, the problem doesn't solve by itself: it only does so if the city reaches again the same population, so I think this is something we have to fix.

This is pretty easy to fix I think, I am testing a change locally right now.

I only just noticed, but my Privateers aren't picking up any cash from blockading coastal cities from a friendly civ I'm at peace with. They're blocking the tiles, but no gold is being generated. Is this from the removal of Trade Routes? Or does switching out of the civic(s) that allow the training of Privateers prevent them from generating income from blockades? (I switched out of Mercantile recently)

Quite right, I am testing a fix for this too.

 

[Blueblood]

I hadn't played this in a long time, but thought I'd start off a new game. Found this awful, unplayable bug which creates Ottoman ghost soldiers!

Probably shouldn't take long to fix, lol. Downloaded from the non-SVN nightly upload installer.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I hadn't played this in a long time, but thought I'd start off a new game. Found this awful, unplayable bug which creates Ottoman ghost soldiers!

Probably shouldn't take long to fix, lol. Downloaded from the non-SVN nightly upload installer.

Sadly, we know about this bug since a very long time now but we haven't been able to fix it. Mediterranean slingers appear white until you meet an archer. Then the get their full textures.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Quite right, I am testing a fix for this too.

About Privateers, there's another problem we've noticed a long time ago and I've not been able to solve; when they're killed they leave a "halo" of visibility. You have visibility over the squares where they've been killed even ages after they've been sunk (probably forever).

 

[Blueblood]

Sadly, we know about this bug since a very long time now but we haven't been able to fix it. Mediterranean slingers appear white until you meet an archer. Then the get their full textures.

That's definitely a strange bug. Alright then, thanks for taking a look!

 

[val3]

Seems like bug: sometimes units in AI city not defend city all together, only one by one.
Trying to describe what i mean.

When the game is going to decide: what unit will defend city, than it see only the first unit in city and not see the others. ( Usially game must choose the best option or the eligible option)

May be more clear, if i'll attach the save.
Catapultas near the Utrecht don't want to attack the city.
Because the first defender in city - maceman, it has only 25% hp, so the catapultas will not attack, until I'll kill him. They "don't see" the other defenders in the city.
Also, my longbowman "don't see" other defenders too, and he will fight with heavy-injured maceman, and not with healthy others.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Hi, I've started a new game.
All looks fine by me, except one tricky case i'll write.
I think, the great check of multiple production will be in medieval/industral era, because it's "blitz" and "one city challenge", and i really hope on multiple production to win.

Tricky case: ( I don't know the correct behaviour, it is for discussion).

I have +365% for catapults ( heroic epic, siege weapons workshop etc.). 32 hammers raw. It does give me 32 * 4.65 = 139 hammers per turn with modificators for catapults.


Move 195: in production stack only 1 catapult, it was builded yet on 75% ( 45 of 60 hammers ).
Move 196: I have overflow 139 - 15 = 124 hammers. But game didn't give gold for this overflow, as i expected ( i was lack of gold).
But now i have 124 hammers, so it is easy to build, for example, some wonder ( when i have only +30% modificators ). I will have 124 + 32 * 1.3 = 165 hammers for this wonder.
And one may say: it is not logical. If I've builded this two turns wonder, then I'll have only 32 * 1.3 * 2 = 82 hammers for it. But now I have 165 hammers and a catapult

It is some kind of exploiting the game using microcontrol. With +365% for catapults, I can get a huge production and gold bonus for all. I know, something like this was in Vanilla too, but with big modificators of ROM:AND you can get really huge bonus using it. But may be it is good, bonus for people which thinking and analysing.

The solution to prevent exploit is: to divide each time overflow hummers on coefficients from previous build. In this case 124 will divided on 4.65 and it was about 27 overflow. Then added 32 I'll have 59 raw production ( so, now we add overflow BEFORE multiplying on modificators ) and 59 * 1.3 = 77 hammers for wonder OR 59 * 4.65 = 274 hummers for catapults.

I've looked into code - seems it will be not easy and non-trivial change, so that is the situation.

I feared this, and it's what I've tried to explain to Afforess.
Looks like something that can be exploited to me too.

 

[Rezca]

Something I still don't understand about the 'Cease Relations' diplomacy option...

Whenever I have Open Borders and an Embassy with a civilization, and an enemy of mine convinces/pays them to cease relations with me... The AI I had an embassy with gets mad at me for kicking his ambassadors out, despite him supposedly being the one that cut the relations between us. Unless the scripting has the player end the relations for some reason?


As an example, just now the Dutch had the Persians cut all relations with me. Cyrus was already Annoyed with me so this didn't affect me much, but checking the relations I got a sudden -2 for 'Kicking his ambassadors out' when he was the one who cut relations with me.

 

[Afforess]

I feared this, and it's what I've tried to explain to Afforess.
Looks like something that can be exploited to me too.

No, that is not the same situation at all.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

No, that is not the same situation at all.

Then I didn't explain correctly, because that's what I meant.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

There's something I don't understand about connectedness. It looks like if I choose a civic with No Foreign Connectedness (Coinage & Mercantile), I can't trade resources with other civs. Or better, I can trade my resources to them, but I can't see the other civs resources in the diplo screen. And anyway, shouldn't Mercantile allow foreign trade?

Savegame here: look at Korea for example. I do have an active deal but I think it's probably older than my switching to Coinage. If I switch from Coinage to Guilds, I can see their resources (although they don't want to trade them with me).