Aneesh's Hinduism thread

PB said:
All the different gods can be referred to as "avatars" of the "main god", if I'm not mistaken.
I believe that the hindu gods are not avatars. An avatar is a very special incarnation of Reality and serves a distinct purpose.

Krishna is probably the best known of the Hindu avatars in the west. The hare krishna sect is a group devoted to chanting his name.

On Avatars:
Although the Avatars appear in different forms at different times, places and circumstances, They are the Selfsame Supreme Lord and Their purpose is one: to reveal the Absolute Truth in this world and remind its inhabitants of their eternal lives of blissful service to God in their original homeland, the spiritual world. This divine purpose is eloquently expressed by Lord Krsna in the world-famous Bhagavad-gita (4.7-8):


Whenever there is a decline in religious practice
and a predominant rise of irreligion--at that
time I descend Myself. To deliver the pious and
to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to
establish the principles of religion, I Myself
appear, millennium after millennium.

The ultimate mission of incarnations is to arouse love of God everywhere.

http://www.avatara.org/essay.html

Question for aneeshm: Do modern hindus, consider Jesus and Mohammed as avatars?
 
Though I understand many of the castes are starting to fade away there still seems to be some prejuidice based on status. I have a very good friend whose father has tried to arrange three marriages for her, none of which she would approve. Because of this, her relationship has become seemingly more difficult with her father.

Her brother, on the other hand, fell in love with a girl that his family didn't approve of due to that family's lower social status and has since had an arranged marriage that he is not happy in.

My question is why is this practice still prevalent and how did it evolve this way?
 
aneeshm said:
Exactly . Think of it as different front-ends to the same server software . Clearer now ? Each person has his own preferences in the interface , but the back-end is the same . All these are mainfestations of God , tailored to suit the devotee.
Great analogy.

What sacred texts are important in modern Hinduism? What about the sutras/bashyas?
 
vyapti said:
What sacred texts are important in modern Hinduism? What about the sutras/bashyas?
Here's one:

Krishna's Bhagavad-Gita

The Bhagavad-gita is the famous philosophical discourse that took place between Lord Krishna and the warrior Arjuna, just before the onset of the great Bharata War (c. 3138 BC). Although widely published and read by itself, the Bhagavad-gita originally appears as an episode in the Sixth Book of the Mahabharata (Bhismaparvan, 23-40). In this treatise of 700 verses, Lord Krishna systematically surveys the major Vedic dharmas and shows how each directs a person toward the ultimate conclusion, the "most confidential of all knowledge." He analyzes the performance of sacrifices and the worship of demigods; He discusses the yogas of work, meditation, and knowledge. In each case, Krishna shows how it leads to the "most secrets of all secrets, " pure loving devotional service to God. "Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer you homage unto Me." This, Krishna says is "the most confidential part of knowledge."
 
El_Machinae said:
I agree with this as well!

Are Sihks violent due to their religion?

In a word : no . They are , however , prepared to be violent if the need arises . Sikhism acquired some martial characteristics because the Sikh homeland was repeatedly invaded by tyrants .
 
Capulet said:
So you are saying that Hinduism is monotheistic?

I've always heard there were three major Hindu gods, Vishnu the Preserver, Shiva the Destroyer, and Shakti the Great Mother, and that there are individual incarnations of these gods, not of one God. Whats the deal? And what God is mostly prayed to?


The Hindu trinity consists of

Brahma the creator
Vishnu the preserver
Shiva the destroyer .

Brahma has no wife . The other two have a wife , representing their active element ( in Hinduism , the male is the passive , and the feminine the active ) .

Different gods are popular in different places . For example , the son of Shiva ( Ganesha ) is the primary diety in Maharashtra . His brother , Kartikeya , is the chief diety further down south . In Kerala , Parashuram is the founder-patron of the state . And so on . Most of the Gods are related , and have met each other at some time or the other .


Vishnu , in his role as the preserver , is supposed to incarnate himself whenever the Earth needs it .

The avatars are :

Matysa : The fish . Saved Manu ( the first man ) and the Spatarishi ( the seven sages ) from the great flood .

Kurma : The tortoise . This giant tortoise supported a mountain upon his back , so that the ocean of milk could be churned to get at its riches .

Varaha : The boar . This avatar rescued the Earth from a demon , who had sent her to the bottom of the ocean .

Narasimha : Half-man , Half-lion . God incarnated himself in this form to save one of his devotees , Pralhad , and to slay the demon who was the brother of the demon who sent the earth to the ocean floor .

Vaman : The dwarf . He saved the heavens from being conquered by King Bali , but because Bali jas a just king , he gave Bali the rule of the netherworld ( hot hell , just an underground world ) .

Parashuram : Rama of the Axe ( Parashu ) . Whenever the administrative class became corrupt and arrogant , and forgot its limits , Parashuram would fix them .

Rama : God's incarnation in this form had two purposes . One purpose was to slay the demon Ravana , and stop his forces from interfering with the settlement of Dandakaranya ( the south of India , which was almost all jungle ) . The other was to provide the people with a template for an ideal man's life .

Krishna : The only complete incarnation of God . His job was to guide the Mahabharata epic . He also gave us the Bhagwad Gita .

Balaram : Krishna's brother .

Kalki : Opinions differ as to the purpose of this avatar . Some say that he will end the current age by destruction . Others say that he will regenerate the Earth , and return mankind to its former glory . Both agree that he will act as the agent causing the end of this cycle of four ages .
 
GeneralZed said:
Were Hindus at war apart from the Pakistani-Indian war over Kashmir? To be more precise about religion? Like Christians conquering back Jerusalem in the crusades?

The Kashmir war is a territorial dispute , not having anything to do with religion . Kashmir has no religious significance . It is not a "holy land" .
 
Birdjaguar said:
I believe that the hindu gods are not avatars. An avatar is a very special incarnation of Reality and serves a distinct purpose.

Krishna is probably the best known of the Hindu avatars in the west. The hare krishna sect is a group devoted to chanting his name.

On Avatars:


http://www.avatara.org/essay.html

Question for aneeshm: Do modern hindus, consider Jesus and Mohammed as avatars?


There is a difference between enlightened men and avatars . The former are people who have reached the status of God themselves , by realising themselves . Jesus and Mohammed may fit into the former category ( like Ashtavakra , Janaka , the great sages , the Buddha , and so on ) .
 
So the elephant with 8 arms is the same god as the chick with 8 arms just a diffrent version.
I suppose that you meant Ganesh, though I cannot recall seeing him with multiple arms. I think Hindu mythology classify Ganesh as the son of Kali n Shiva.
 
Whomp said:
Though I understand many of the castes are starting to fade away there still seems to be some prejuidice based on status. I have a very good friend whose father has tried to arrange three marriages for her, none of which she would approve. Because of this, her relationship has become seemingly more difficult with her father.

Her brother, on the other hand, fell in love with a girl that his family didn't approve of due to that family's lower social status and has since had an arranged marriage that he is not happy in.

My question is why is this practice still prevalent and how did it evolve this way?


It started out as a system of social organisation . Originally , the caste system was fluid , allowing the intermarriage of different castes , and also mobility between castes ( for example , a Brahmin could becoma a warrior if he so needed it , and a warrior could retire from active life to adopt the Brahminical lifestyle ( as the Buddha , and Vishwamitra , did ) , and so on ) .

As a response to invasions , however , the caste system solidified and became rigid , mainly to protect Hinduism against the ravages of invaders . Now that the system has lost its purpose , it must again be reformed , or discarded if it cannot accept change .

As for why it is still prevalent ( mainly in the villages ) - social conservatism , nothing else .

By caste , I'm a Brahmin , but I hardly follow any of my caste taboos , because they don't make sense in today's context .

This is another thing about Hinduism - it gives religious leaders it trusts the power and anthority to reform the religion . No one book is binding on the reformer , and thus he can do his work unshackled .
 
vyapti said:
Great analogy.

What sacred texts are important in modern Hinduism? What about the sutras/bashyas?

The primary texts , the foundation of the religion , are the Vedas , which constitute the shruti ( that which is heard ) . Based on these are the Upanishads . Later came the Puranas and the Gita . The great epics , or histories ( itihaas ) are the Ramayana and the Mahabharata . There are , to be frank , just too many texts to name . One of my personal favourites is the Ashtavakra MahaSamhita .
 
aneeshm said:
There is a difference between enlightened men and avatars . The former are people who have reached the status of God themselves , by realising themselves . Jesus and Mohammed may fit into the former category ( like Ashtavakra , Janaka , the great sages , the Buddha , and so on ) .
Kalki is the tenth and last avatar of this age. Does hinduism provide an ETA for his incarnation?
 
It does not provide an ETA , but it does say that when corruption reaches a certain level , Kalki will appear . How do we know if corruption has reached that level ? There are signs which can be seen .
 
Without trying to hijack the thread, if I may provide an interesting angle to the texts of Hinduism, with reference to law.

Religion was the basis of the law in Hinduism, right upto 1956, but more on that later. The source of this law were the Shrutis, or that which is heard, passed down by the word of mouth from sages, learned men, etc. on what is right, good , virtue etc. The Shrutis consist of the Vedas, Upanishads to an extent, the Aranyakas, the Brahmanas, and some even put the Ramayana and Mahabharata among these. However, given the nature of oral history and the need for application to concrete contexts, texts were written by learned scholars such as Narada, Agnavalkhya, Brihaspati, and the much reviled Manu. Given that these authors presented an authoritative version of the Shrutis, their commentaries or the Smritis became the de facto sources of law.

Theoretically, when a Shruti conflicts with a Smriti, the former prevails, though in actual practice it is far more difficult to find out what the Shruti says and the Smriti is accepted all the same. Some of the Smritis, judged by modern standards are patently pro-Brahmin, pro-male, anti-Harijan, anti-women. Naturally because all the Smriti writers were Brahmins, like the author of this post;). However, the question also remains as to how much were they 'interpreting' and how much were they 'reflecting', i.e., do they prescribe do's and don'ts or are they merely re-stating accepted customs and norms.

The matter was complicated, as always in law, by the arrival of positivist English jurists who wanted to know what the law in the new country was. Central authority rapidly deteriorating, not yet replaced by the British legal system in its entirety, there had to be other codes which governed the people. For the Muslims, it was straightforward, the Quran and other holy books as interpreted by the Qazis and Maulvis. The Hindus, being way more diverse and widespread, did not seem to have a coherent form of law guiding their lives, however, that did not stop the British from looking for it, and they hit upon the most educated section of Indian society, the Brahmins. Of course the Brahmins were more than delighted to be recognized as the law keepers for the whole country, never mind that locally each Brahmin priest interpreted as and how he felt like depending on the level of education of the general populace.

Therefore, when the British set up their courts in India, alongside Common law, Hindu law was equally applied, but as interpreted by leading Sanskrit scholars. Of course the British, before 1857 Revolt, did legislate on a large number of matters, slowly replacing Shastric Hindu law, but left a wide area uncovered in the form of family law, which was truly a legal system all by itself. In fact, as late as the last years of the 19th century, noted family law jurist, Mayne predicted that it would be impossible in the foreseeable future to have codified hindu law applicable to the entire country and the whole effort would not be worth the trouble.

It was only in 1956, after long-drawn and acrimonious debate stretching over 5 years that a uniform civil code for the Hindus was drawn up. Notably, it introduced concepts of divorce, property rights, adoptive rights, etc. for women where there had been none. It also rendered entirely academic, the life's study a lawyer would have had to undertake to understand Hindu family law.
 
The Shrutis legislate very little , if anything at all . Most law based on them is very convoluted , because you have to invent your own symbolism , then interpret the wierd things that come out when that symbolism is applied to the sacred texts .
 
aneeshm said:
As there are different types of people , there have to be different types of gods to appeal to them . That is why you will find that no matter the type of person you are , you will find a God you can like in the Hindu pantheon ( after all , the pantheon was constructed/evolved pricisely to meet this need ) .
Good work Aneesh. You're doing an admirable job. Just wanted to say that you expressed this very well, perhaps the most inspiring aspect of Hindu theological thought imo.
 
punkbass2000 said:
Do you consider yourself to worship a particular God? If so, which, and why?

If I may be permitted to answer.

There are divisions within Hindus based on the particular manifestation of God which they worship. Mostly it is not so important and is more of the nature of personal favourite than must worship kind of restriction. For example, in South India, certain castes are 'Shaivas' i.e., worshippers of Shiva and all his avatars, and associated gods, whereas others are 'Vaishnavas', who worship Vishnu and his forms. Though I am of the Smartha (Shaiva) sub-caste among Brahmins, there is no injunction on me visiting a Vaishnava temple, nor has been imposed on any member of my family by anyone as far as I can recall.

However, in some parts of South India, the distinction is so marked (and violent) that Shaivas will not enter Vaishnava temples and vice versa, though on the whole, such distinctions are not strictly followed in most places sparing some rural areas.

There is no specific prescription that a certain set of gods have to be worshipped in a particular manner to be a Hindu; indeed one will have to spend a few thousand years recounting ALL the myriad names in which ALL the gods of Hinduism are worshipped by different communities.
 
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