Another reason why I hate Utah

[downtown]

BYU Students who Protested Against Dick Cheney blacklisted, labeled Heretics

Yes, blah blah, I know its from the Huffington Puffington Post. However, I'm pretty close to the situation going on here, and, having recieved some of these emails MYSELF, I can assure you that this is pretty accurate.

Being Mormon ain't easy sometimes.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

BYU Students who Protested Against Dick Cheney blacklisted, labeled Heretics

Yes, blah blah, I know its from the Huffington Puffington Post. However, I'm pretty close to the situation going on here, and, having recieved some of these emails MYSELF, I can assure you that this is pretty accurate.

Being Mormon ain't easy sometimes.

nice to see fanatacism can still outweigh logical thought.

eh, sad thing is it's happened before, it's happening now, and it'll happen again.

 

[El_Machinae]

"As you know," he writes, "you are all attending a church-owned private school. Anything that happens there is authorized by a prophet. If there was a problem with Dick Cheney not living up to school standards I'm sure that [Mormon] President Hinckley would have shot down the idea before it got to you. We are also encouraged and taught to support our political leaders. If you don't like the fact that he is coming then maybe you are at the wrong school. Quit your *****ing and get on with your life. It's people like you who make the church and school look bad. BYU is full of the biggest pain in the asses. Stop your griping and know that if it was wrong then it would be taken care of."

Ouch.
Downtown, it looks like your protest is more important than you thought.

 

[Nylan]

You may not like it, and yes it is a bit unfair for them to be blacklisted as a whole, but that article's email excerpts, although a bit extreme, make a point.

I understand and really do appreciate variety in politics. Utah doesn't have enough of it. But the First Presidency knows what they're doing. Dick Cheany speaking at BYU is not speaking as "such and such republican yaddayadda whatever" but rather as a leader of our nation. Left or right isn't the point. Such polarization is only going to cause problems. Remember the 12th article of faith. If the first presidency decided Dick Cheany would be fine to speak there, then they shouldn't have been opposed.

I'll admit that the overraction was overly harsh though. It should not have been that bad, and 'heretics' is too far.

Just don't forget, we're trying to find the right wayand choose the right, but we're only human and often we (or they in this case) fall short.

 

[downtown]

You may not like it, and yes it is a bit unfair for them to be blacklisted as a whole, but that article's email excerpts, although a bit extreme, make a point.

I understand and really do appreciate variety in politics. Utah doesn't have enough of it. But the First Presidency knows what they're doing. Dick Cheany speaking at BYU is not speaking as "such and such republican yaddayadda whatever" but rather as a leader of our nation. Left or right isn't the point. Such polarization is only going to cause problems. Remember the 12th article of faith. If the first presidency decided Dick Cheany would be fine to speak there, then they shouldn't have been opposed.

I'll admit that the overraction was overly harsh though. It should not have been that bad, and 'heretics' is too far.
.

I'm sorry my friend, but I cannot agree. This has nothing to do with left and right. Dick Cheney is a Morally Dubious man. This is about sacrificing our core values, the very message that we go telling people about..and for what? Ego?

The people who run BYU make mistakes all the time. If they didnt, it would be a world-class institution, not a running joke to people outside Mormon America.

I simply cannot be okay with it. You can't just skip your commencement speaker..its not like he was invited just to give a talk (like John Roberts will be next year, along with Harry Reid). Its hypocritical to give all this lip service to values, and then bring in Dick Cheney.

Just because they're the church leaders doesnt mean they never make mistakes. THis wasn't discussed in General Conference, or in the Ensign, or anything. If President Hinckley tells everybody he likes BLTs...that doesnt make it God's Sandwhich.

 

[History_Buff]

Dick Cheney is a Morally Dubious man.

Care to elaborate on that? And I'm not arguing it, I'd just like to here about the guy.

 

[Nylan]

I'm sorry my friend, but I cannot agree. This has nothing to do with left and right. Dick Cheney is a Morally Dubious man. This is about sacrificing our core values, the very message that we go telling people about..and for what? Ego?

The people who run BYU make mistakes all the time. If they didnt, it would be a world-class institution, not a running joke to people outside Mormon America.

I simply cannot be okay with it. You can't just skip your commencement speaker..its not like he was invited just to give a talk (like John Roberts will be next year, along with Harry Reid). Its hypocritical to give all this lip service to values, and then bring in Dick Cheney.

Just because they're the church leaders doesnt mean they never make mistakes. THis wasn't discussed in General Conference, or in the Ensign, or anything. If President Hinckley tells everybody he likes BLTs...that doesnt make it God's Sandwhich.

IMHO the Prophet is right far more than he's wrong, and when prophet's "screw up" it is by their own weakness rather than that of God. You can't just pick and choose "hmm, I think I'll believe and trust him here...no I don't think I'll listen to him there". It's not our say what God's decision is. We can choose to live the gospel. We can't choose what the gospel is.

All I'm saying is there's no need to get riled up because the vast majority of Utahns don't share your views and therefore rejected them.

 

[MobBoss]

Dick Cheney is a Morally Dubious man. This is about sacrificing our core values, the very message that we go telling people about..and for what? Ego?

Which of your core values is Dick Cheney trying to sacrifice? How is he a morally dubious man. How morally dubious are you? Are you not judging him by stating this in this manner?

I simply cannot be okay with it. You can't just skip your commencement speaker..its not like he was invited just to give a talk (like John Roberts will be next year, along with Harry Reid). Its hypocritical to give all this lip service to values, and then bring in Dick Cheney.

Why? He is the Vice President of the United States. I think he would be a great commencement speaker. And again, what 'values' are you referring to?

 

[MobBoss]

nice to see fanatacism can still outweigh logical thought.

That swings both ways. How is liberal fanatacism opposing the Vice President speaking any better than religious fanatacism?

Answer: It aint.

As John McCain said a few days ago....someone needs to get a life. If protesting Dick Cheney is the most important thing for you to do, instead of actually listening to an opposing point of view every once in awhile, then your priorities are off.

 

[Sidhe]

I stand by there right to protest, and the schools right to proceed anyway. But frankly those letters saying stop your whining kinda suck. Hey you don't like him, tough we do and the prophets telling you to stfu.

That said though they have every right to invite him to attend, just as students have every right to boycott the event if they do not agree with his politics.

 

[Nylan]

I stand by there right to protest, and the schools right to proceed anyway. But frankly those letters saying stop your whining kinda suck. Hey you don't like him, tough we do and the prophets telling you to stfu.

That said though they have every right to invite him to attend, just as students have every right to boycott the event if they do not agree with his politics.

Yes, they do have that right. I just don't see why it's so suprising that a red state would find the protest ridiculous. Yes they went too far, but downtown saying it's horrible that the protesters are being avoided is unreasonable. The school has a right, the protesters have a right, and citizens have a right of association.

 

[MobBoss]

I stand by there right to protest, and the schools right to proceed anyway. But frankly those letters saying stop your whining kinda suck. Hey you don't like him, tough we do and the prophets telling you to stfu.

That said though they have every right to invite him to attend, just as students have every right to boycott the event if they do not agree with his politics.

Yeah, but would putting together an 'alternative commencement' be taking it a bit too far? I would think so.

Its one thing to protest.........its another to actually disrupt the commencement planning to form an entirely separate ceremony simply because you dont like Dick Cheney.

 

[Sidhe]

Yeah, but would putting together an 'alternative commencement' be taking it a bit too far? I would think so.

Its one thing to protest.........its another to actually disrupt the commencement planning to form an entirely separate ceremony simply because you dont like Dick Cheney.

I don't like Dick Cheney's politics, but I think I would draw the line at anything that disrupted the event personally(it's a democracy and in a democracy a person has a right to speak regardless of his politics or whether you agree with them) So this *****ing and disruption is not necessary, it's not like he's giving a speech on something controversial, as far as I know so the extent of the ill will seems a little overblown.

I agree to some extent but it seems like both sides aren't dealing with this very well. I think at the end of the day, you've got to say freedom of speech is important here on both sides. And as I said that the college being private and not a democratic institution, has the right to invite anyone at any time it likes and for that event to take place when it means it to. just as I suppose the other side has a right to have its own event when it means to, frankly neither side should be pressuring each other, you don't want to attend event A) fine go to B) and vise a versa and let both events be civil and not affect the other. That'd be the freedom of speech thing.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

That swings both ways. How is liberal fanatacism opposing the Vice President speaking any better than religious fanatacism?

Answer: It aint.

As John McCain said a few days ago....someone needs to get a life. If protesting Dick Cheney is the most important thing for you to do, instead of actually listening to an opposing point of view every once in awhile, then your priorities are off.

who said that's the most important thing to them?

jesus christ, they want to make their voice heard and you would rather them just shut up.

 

[JollyRoger]

How private is BYU? Are they receiving any federal funds? Are any BYU students receiving Federal financial aid? If BYU doesn't like it's students protesting, maybe they should get completely off the government dole.

 

[downtown]

Which of your core values is Dick Cheney trying to sacrifice? How is he a morally dubious man.

The biggest was telling Jim Jeffords to go F*** himself. Then we have his connections with the US torture policy, shady business practices, his chief of staff being convicted of a crime (and some say to protect Dick), and his all around manner of conducting political business being against what the LDS church preaches.

Plus, you know, he shot a dude in the face.

We're straight edge, honest people. You dont see LDS politicans involved in political scandal...its one of the reasons we dont see many LDS politicians. Dick Cheney doesn't represent the values of Mormonism, similar to the manner that Bill Clinton, Ten Kennedy and Barney Frank don't.

How morally dubious are you?

Has nothing to do with anything, since I'm not being asked to spreak in front of 40,000 Mormon kids representing the school. I'm a Mormon in good standing. I think you know what that means.

Why? He is the Vice President of the United States. I think he would be a great commencement speaker. And again, what 'values' are you referring to?

Church Officals are typically the people who speak at this event. For a church that prides itself on political neutrality, it would have been better to find somebody who was not currently serving in office, such as Jimmy Carter, or George Bush 1. Naturally, we pick the most politically dividing, controverial figure in US politics. Great work guys.

 

[downtown]

How private is BYU? Are they receiving any federal funds? Are any BYU students receiving Federal financial aid? If BYU doesn't like it's students protesting, maybe they should get completely off the government dole.

BYU is a private school, but they get federal research money, and BYU students still have to file FAFSA.

If BYU wanted to go 100% off government dole, they have the money to function, but they'd never be able to get any research done.

 

[JollyRoger]

BYU is a private school, but they get federal research money, and BYU students still have to file FAFSA.

If BYU wanted to go 100% off government dole, they have the money to function, but they'd never be able to get any research done.

So if they want to get reseach done, then they should be expected to be more tolerant of 1st Amendment rights than a purely private institution would have to be.

 

[MobBoss]

who said that's the most important thing to them?

jesus christ, they want to make their voice heard and you would rather them just shut up.

Simply making their voice heard is fine. A simple protest can do that. That is not what is going on here.

Are you unable to tell the difference?

If your personal level of intolerance is so high that you cant sit for a few minutes and listen to someone speak that you dont agree with, then something is wrong with you.

I dont want them to simply shut up. But I think it just incredibly stupid to take it so far as to require an alternate commencement ceremony because you have no tolerance.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Simply making their voice heard is fine. A simple protest can do that. That is not what is going on here.

Are you unable to tell the difference?

If your personal level of intolerance is so high that you cant sit for a few minutes and listen to someone speak that you dont agree with, then something is wrong with you.

I dont want them to simply shut up. But I think it just incredibly stupid to take it so far as to require an alternate commencement ceremony because you have no tolerance.

we all protest in our own ways, i guess.

i'm not saying i would do this (hell, i wouldnt go to a crazy red college anyways ) but i see nothing wrong with them doing it.

i'm sure it happens with the campus repubs when someone like ted kennedy speaks at a college, and i don't mind that either.