Another reason why I hate Utah

[MobBoss]

It's hard to believe because MobBoss usually shows a decided lack of tolerance for people he considers self-serving lying weasel sleazebags.

You are full of crap Taliesin. I have said it often before in the OT that even as much as I dislike the man Bill Clinton is, I would still show the man the respect he is due simply for being President. Part of that respect would be sitting and listening to him speak instead of being disruptive.

Bill Clinton was my president. For that sole, simple fact he is derserving of my respect. I still think the things I do about him; but neither would I avoid him like the plague, nor disallow him the opportunity to speak if he were chosen to do so.

I'm pretty sure that if faced with the outrage of a degenerate atheist or weasel sleazebag being selected to address his graduating class at a Christian school, he would raise hell, and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't go.

It depends. If it were a major political figure, like Clinton, I would still go. If it were Rosie O'Donnel, I sure as hell wouldnt.

At the very least, I'm quite sure, in the present situation he would sympathise with this protest if it were one against Bill Clinton.

I would sympathize with their right to protest, but I wouldnt support an entirely separate commencement ceremony or any blatent disruption of his speech.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think it's important to not tacitly endorse people you deem to be immoral.

 

[MobBoss]

I think it's important to not tacitly endorse people you deem to be immoral.

Sitting and listening to someone you dont agree with give a commencement speech is hardly 'endorsement'.

People should be encouraged to voice their disagreements fine. But actually taking steps to have an alternate ceremony is just taking it too far.

 

[El_Machinae]

It seems to be a bit of work, but if the people are willing to do it (just to free their commencement of Mr. Cheney), more power to them.

 

[Taliesin]

Sitting and listening to someone you dont agree with give a commencement speech is hardly 'endorsement'.

People should be encouraged to voice their disagreements fine. But actually taking steps to have an alternate ceremony is just taking it too far.

And evidently the students disagree about where "too far" is. Maybe they're more committed to their principles than most of us.

 

[Nylan]

And evidently the students disagree about where "too far" is. Maybe they're more committed to their principles than most of us.

the thing is, it's hard to find Cheany a horribly immoral man that would go against church principles, and even if he is, we shouldn't judge.

 

[Irish Caesar]

...and even if he is, we shouldn't judge.

No, but we also shouldn't pay him to come and give a speech.

 

[MobBoss]

the thing is, it's hard to find Cheany a horribly immoral man that would go against church principles, and even if he is, we shouldn't judge.

Well, I for one think we can judge a persons choices and actions in life. However, there have been plenty of 'morally questionable' people that have led our country quite capably in our past. So I dont necessarily think moral perfection a requirement in being able to be a competent leader. If our leaders are chosen, then they are deserving of our respect for the office they hold at the very least.

 

[Nylan]

Well, I for one think we can judge a persons choices and actions in life. However, there have been plenty of 'morally questionable' people that have led our country quite capably in our past. So I dont necessarily think moral perfection a requirement in being able to be a competent leader. If our leaders are chosen, then they are deserving of our respect for the office they hold at the very least.

Right, my point being that they claim Cheany goes against BYU principles

I don't really see that

 

[MobBoss]

No, but we also shouldn't pay him to come and give a speech.

Why not? He is the Vice President and has been active in politics for his entire career.

Do you not think the man might have something interesting to say?

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Well, I for one think we can judge a persons choices and actions in life.

which religion was it that taught not to judge?

i'm clueless and a wiki page would work.

 

[MobBoss]

which religion was it that taught not to judge?

i'm clueless and a wiki page would work.

There is a difference in judging a person and judging that persons actions.

Are you able to recognize the difference?

God holds judgement over the person and their immortal soul. Man holds judgement over a persons actions and can mete punishment for actions that break mans laws.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

There is a difference in judging a person and judging that persons actions.

Are you able to recognize the difference?

tell me how calling bill clinton a weasel is judging his actions.

 

[MobBoss]

tell me how calling bill clinton a weasel is judging his actions.

He is a weasel precisely because of his actions....i.e. lying and adultery. Otherwise he might be a very pleasant person to be around. I have relatives that used to play poker with him in Arkansas and am told he was always a happy kind of guy....but still a weasel.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Why not? He is the Vice President and has been active in politics for his entire career.

Do you not think the man might have something interesting to say?

That wasn't about Cheney in particular; personally, I'd like to hear him speak. But I'm also not a fan of colleges spending huge amounts of money for someone to come and give a short speech which will be shortly forgotten. This year, my tuition money has paid for Maya Angelou and Al Gore to speak on campus; I couldn't get a ticket to see either of them. (Actually, to be honest, I can't find out whose dime VP Gore came on, but I'm assuming the Institute's and therefore mine.)

I probably wouldn't have found their talks very interesting, but even if I did, I'd rather hear from a vice president of Boeing talking about designing the 7E7 Dreamliner, it's more pertinent to a group of engineers. (Which I also had the opportunity to sit in on. Very interesting talk.) If I'm paying top dollar to attend an engineering school, let me hear from good engineers, not poets with a high price tag or alarmists with a political agenda.

$50k for Maya Angelou was ridiculous, and she's not a bad person. Again, I'm not saying Cheney is, but for what colleges pay for speakers, they should get someone with either closer ties to the university (I should watch what I say or they'll get Jimmy Carter here!) or someone more relevant to graduates. On final analysis, I'd say Cheney is a relevant speaker to graduates of a school with law and business programs.

 

[MobBoss]

That wasn't about Cheney in particular; personally, I'd like to hear him speak. But I'm also not a fan of colleges spending huge amounts of money for someone to come and give a short speech which will be shortly forgotten.

A most excellent debate point. I totally agree on the true benefit of such speeches.

Your point is totally valid. Evergreen State College near where I live had a convicted cop murderer (Mumia Abu-Jamal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumia_Abu-Jamal) give their commencement speech via a taped message. I dont see how anyone could complain about Dick Cheney in comparison to that.

 

[JollyRoger]

He is a weasel precisely because of his actions....i.e. lying and adultery.

So Mitt Romney is the only possible non-weasal frontrunner on the Republican side?

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Anything that happens [at our school] is authorized by a prophet.

We are also encouraged and taught to support our political leaders.

Stop your griping and know that if it was wrong then it would be taken care of.

And then people get all prickly when people point out that Mormonism, and fundie Christianity in general, is pathology masquerading as theology.

When I say, "just trust your leaders, they know what they're doing," or "this or that man or institution can never be mistaken, so don't question them," then I'm not thinking, I'm just blowing air out my ass.

Pathetic that so many people are indoctrinated this way.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Except that isn't entirely a completely accurate description of Mormonism.

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

The article's comments also makes a good point about the Pod-People nature of modern Republicans. Remember free speech zones? Remember that more than 10,000 people were arrested during the last GOP convention for protesting?

Speaking of Dick Cheney, does anyone besides me remember that his accomodation rider or whatever says (in addition to stuff like air conditioning) that any TV in a room he enters must be on and tuned to FOX?

So, yeah, telling someone that they should just sit down for a few minutes and listen to an "alternative" viewpoint, when that "alternative" voice happens to be a leader of the Rethuglican party in heavily GOP Utah... not so "alternative" heh?