Antifa rocks!

[brennan]

Trump isn't a fascist by a long stretch, he's a self-aggrandising egotist who only manages to say the right things for his base because they like inflammatory rhetoric and don't care if he lies. He doesn't believe in anything except Donald Trump, he doesn't have any sort of dangerous vision or ideology, and he doesn't even give a crap if his voter base gets what they want.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Moderator Action: A single image with no commentary is considered as spam on the forum, even though the image contains written content. --LM

 

[Traitorfish]

They might do more to stop discontented people supporting fascism than Antifa do
The street battles between Nazis and Communists did nothing to stop Hitler, indeed they helped convince many conservatives that there was a Communist threat

Is this something which conservatives needed to be "convinced" of, in Germany or anywhere else?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Is this something which conservatives needed to be "convinced" of, in Germany or anywhere else?

They had more to fear from communists then they did fascists and more in common with the latter... even though fascists ended up being the actual threat in the end.

Same in America.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Is this something which conservatives needed to be "convinced" of, in Germany or anywhere else?

To the point where they cooperated with Hitler or Mussolini, yes.
Neither Hitler or Mussolini seized power, they were given it.

 

[Traitorfish]

To the point where they cooperated with Hitler or Mussolini, yes.
Neither Hitler or Mussolini seized power, they were given it.

But when right-wing authoritarian regimes came to power in Austria, Hungary, Romania, Greece, Estonia- was this also due to overly rowdy Communists? At what point do we start to wonder if conservative elites might prefer authoritarian government?

It's credible that Communist militancy played a role in undermining constitutional government in these countries, that's necessarily a more complex dynamic than "yelling too loud will spook the elite into doing a fascism".

 

[Peuri]

So now we are spreading anarchist propaganda? How exactly is this different from right-wing radicalization, but with flowers on top? Don't trust the police, don't talk to the "Other", don't trust the state, fear the future, justification of violence etc. etc.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

So now we are spreading anarchist propaganda? How exactly is this different from right-wing radicalization, but with flowers on top? Don't trust the police, don't talk to the "Other", don't trust the state, fear the future, justification of violence etc. etc.

You are indistinguishable from the memes used to criticise centrists:

 

[AmazonQueen]

But when right-wing authoritarian regimes came to power in Austria, Hungary, Romania, Greece, Estonia- was this also due to overly rowdy Communists? At what point do we start to wonder if conservative elites might prefer authoritarian government?

It's credible that Communist militancy played a role in undermining constitutional government in these countries, that's necessarily a more complex dynamic than "yelling too loud will spook the elite into doing a fascism".

I'm sure that conservative elites do prefer authoritarian governments but not necessarily fascist.
However to peacefully install an authoritarian government with support from a fairly large section of the public isn't so easy.
Running battles on the street especially when they seem to be started by the left can contribute to that support.

 

[Peuri]

You are indistinguishable from the memes used to criticise centrists:

But that leaflet you posted is so much more than just against literal Nazis. It questions pretty much the whole authority of the state, which is it's monopoly on violence. There's also a very fearmongering air to how it depicts the future as hanging on a knife's edge. I don't see how you can't see that, that is also dangerous.

Edit: I also don't understand why you would assume that I am a centrist, just because I call for de-escalation. I'm not a revolutionary for sure, because those usually end up badly. I'm a social democrat, as boring as that is.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

What is your point? Why are you crying over bog-standard anarchist stuff? If you think this is dangerous, perhaps you should start looking at the right-wings equivalent; which has been openly advocating for violent disobediance against the government, with guns.

It's already dangerous for the groups targetted by both the state and fascists and has been for decades, it seems to me that you are uncomfortable with it potentially affecting YOU and YOU prefer to remain out of it, but there will come a point where your passivity is no longer an option if you wish to live in a non-fascist, free society.

Unfortunately history has shown that people like you will sit out for as long as possible, going so far as to defend the very people that ultimately wish to harm you, even as the fascists mobilize and actively recruit over the internet, planning more attacks.

But what's the point in me explaining it? How many more attacks by fascists must we see, how many more deaths must we bare before you open your eyes to the threat growing in our countries?

These people will not stop and our governments refuse to do jack **** about them, is it any wonder why Antifa exist? We already have concentration camps filled with people in them, but even that doesn't seem to be enough for you.

 

[Peuri]

What is your point? Why are you crying over bog-standard anarchist stuff? If you think this is dangerous, perhaps you should start looking at the right-wings equivalent; which has been openly advocating for violent disobediance against the government, with guns.

It's already dangerous for the groups targetted by both the state and fascists and has been for decades, it seems to me that you are uncomfortable with it potentially affecting YOU and YOU prefer to remain out of it, but there will come a point where your passivity is no longer an option if you wish to live in a non-fascist, free society.

Unfortunately history has shown that people like you will sit out for as long as possible, going so far as to defend the very people that ultimately wish to harm you, even as the fascists mobilize and actively recruit over the internet, planning more attacks.

But what's the point in me explaining it? How many more attacks by fascists must we see, how many more deaths must we bare before you open your eyes to the threat growing in our countries? These people will not stop and our governments refuse to do jack **** about them, is it any wonder why Antifa exist?

Ugh, it's the same discussion we had 20 pages ago. If you really want to understand my position, re-read it there.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

And your position is effectively inaction to me and puts the burden on the victims and groups targetted by the fascists.

So congrats there, you can balk at violence, defensive or otherwise, but the fact is that for many groups they never had the option of opting out in the first place, for defensive reasons.

Continue with your priviledged attempts to shield yourself from it, but just know that all you will do in the end is alienate the same people already fighting for you and everybody's right to live in a society not controlled by fascists.

 

[Farm Boy]

The calls for violence are already falling on receptive ears. When fascists beat people, I want them clubbed into submission with the power of the state. When a batman wannabe extremist hero shows up, I want him clubbed into submission by the power of the state.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

The calls for violence are already falling on receptive ears. When fascists beat people, I want them clubbed into submission with the power of the state. When a batman wannabe shows up, I want him clubbed into submission by the power of the state.

Mate, sorry to break it to you Farm Boy, but the state isn't going to do jack **** about it, in fact the very people who should be are more aligned with the fascists than their own constituents. It's passivity and unwillingness to act is why we are in this situation in the first place!

Like come on man, at some point this stops being naivety and becomes an unwillingness to look at the facts.

 

[Farm Boy]

They seem to do good work all over the county every day, from where I stand.

But if you feel unsafe I'll say the same thing I say to everybody. There is a duty to retreat, and I support the right to own force.

 

[Old Hippy]

Mate, sorry to break it to you Farm Boy, but the state isn't going to do jack **** about it, in fact the very people who should be are more aligned with the fascists than their own constituents. It's passivity and unwillingness to act is why we are in this situation in the first place!

that's why you have an election next year... or you could all buy guns this year...

 

[Cloud_Strife]

They seem to do good work all over the county every day, from where I stand.

But if you feel unsafe I'll say the same thing I say to everybody. There is a duty to retreat, and I support the right to own force.

Go and ask minorities for their views on the police, Farm Boy, that'll open your eyes, maybe force you to realize that they only treat certain people well and even then that's no guarantee that they won't rough you up if they feel so inclined.

The police didn't want to hear about what happened to me when i was assaulted for the first time, I was just some ****** getting what they deserved. They couldn't have cared less, since then i've never felt comfortable around them and i've lost all respect, how can they claim to protect and serve the public when they only care about certain groups?

 

[Farm Boy]

As if the wealthy enough to be blind wind up in police families, Cloud.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

They seem to do good work all over the county every day, from where I stand.

But if you feel unsafe I'll say the same thing I say to everybody. There is a duty to retreat, and I support the right to own force.

Try standing for something less popular with the authoritarians. As in actually standing for it, not just quietly thinking it might be okay. In fairly short order I suspect that you will be noticing less "good work" being done every day.