Antisemitism: How do you personally understand this word?

[Gorbles]

I get you can't show me a "Semitism" page anywhere (beyond what I linked myself), because there isn't one.

You're talking to a poster who regularly uses the spelling "antisemitism" and who explicitly linked to a definition that defines it as prejudice against Jewish folk specifically.

Again, I don't think you're reading my posts. Saying "you can technically use other spellings" is not the same as saying whatever it is you think I'm saying.

 

[Somebody613]

So what you're saying is that you actually meant "people think the word Semitism exists" (which it does), that people can be "anti" towards (they can) . . . and that this is wrong?

So, where does that word show up on Wiki, eh?

You are such an anti-Bublasurbus, ya know.
(Note that I definitely don't need to link you to any sources of the word "Bublasurbus", because, well, "it exists". After all, I just used it to refer to your behavior, so it suffices as a source.)

 

[Gorbles]

So, where does that word show up on Wiki, eh?

You are such an anti-Bublasurbus, ya know.
(Note that I definitely don't need to link you to any sources of the word "Bublasurbus", because, well, "it exists". After all, I just used it to refer to your behavior, so it suffices as a source.)

Yeah, I probably should've corrected it to "Semitic". Congrats, you win one Internet point

Also, as you asked.

EDIT - like, what are you driving at here? Are you just trying to be technically-correct all the time in the most obnoxious and off-putting way possible? Are you just attempting to spring linguistic traps, while at the same time running back to your apparent "non-native" English the second you're questioned? English is my first language, but I'm pretty sure it isn't Henri's (for example). I don't see you giving anyone the same benefit of the doubt you're demanding for yourself, which just makes all of this entirely too tedious, really.

 

[Somebody613]

Yeah, I probably should've corrected it to "Semitic". Congrats, you win one Internet point

Nope.
"Semitic" still refers to a wider range than "Jewish", thus "anti-Semitic" also still refers to a wider range of "anti-" than "Jewish".
And that is FALSE.
We thus come to where we started from: "Anti-Semitism" semantically implies a wider range of targets than what the ACTUAL WORD was meant to include.
Kinda similar to:
-Have we landed on the Moon?
-Yes.
-Which one: Phobos or Deimos?
-Wut?
-You said "moon", so it clearly refers to the "moons" of Mars, NO?
...
See what "using words like YOU want to (mis-)use them" leads to?

 

[Gorbles]

Nope.
"Semitic" still refers to a wider range than "Jewish", thus "anti-Semitic" also still refers to a wider range of "anti-" than "Jewish".
And that is FALSE.
We thus come to where we started from: "Anti-Semitism" semantically implies a wider range of targets than what the ACTUAL WORD was meant to include.
Kinda similar to:
-Have we landed on the Moon?
-Yes.
-Which one: Phobos or Deimos?
-Wut?
-You said "moon", so it clearly refers to the "moons" of Mars, NO?
...
See what "using words like YOU want to (mis-)use them" leads to?

Again, with the not reading my posts. I never said "Semitic" meant "Jewish".

It's funny, I thought you were approaching this from a modern scholarly approach to the subject, but if that was the case, you'd point out that Semitic as a term is functionally obsolete in that context. You didn't do that. It seems like you just want to yell "misuse" and "fallacy" like they win you any kind of merit. They don't.

So again: what are you actually here for, and why did you make such an intentionally-misleading opening post to the thread? Because it very much seems like you have no interest in discussion, nor interest in hearing peoples' opinions in the slightest.

 

[Somebody613]

Again, with the not reading my posts. I never said "Semitic" meant "Jewish".

Precisely! It doesn't.
But ANTI-Semitism DOES.
See now?

 

[Gorbles]

Precisely! It doesn't.
But ANTI-Semitism DOES.
See now?

You're acting like you explained something to me that I didn't know. This is kinda bizarre behaviour, and you're not answering anything I'm actually asking you. So I'm bowing out, and the next time you respond with something obviously designed to drag me back in, I'll treat it as such. Cheers!

 

[Somebody613]

You're acting like you explained something to me that I didn't know. This is kinda bizarre behaviour, and you're not answering anything I'm actually asking you. So I'm bowing out, and the next time you respond with something obviously designed to drag me back in, I'll treat it as such. Cheers!

I'll just repeat my point for which I made this thread in the first place:
1. When spelled (or treated as) "anti-Semitism", the word implies a certain standalone "Semitism".
2. "Semitism" or "Semitic" is a word that DOESN'T refer specifically to Jews alone, so "anti-Semitism" automatically is viewed (or treated) as NOT referring specifically to Jews alone.
3. That type of "opinion" is explicitly false, since "antisemitism" was coined very specifically as a direct synonym to "Jew-hatred", and thus it was NOT meant to refer to anyone else.
4. The more people focus on "Semitic" in the broader meaning, the less they realize (or admit) that "antisemitism" refers to hating ONLY Jews, and NOT Arabs or anyone else.
5. This is extremely simple to understand, so I totally don't buy the excuses of those who "don't get it" and thus spout nonsense about "anti-Semitism towards Palestinians".
6. The latter may or may not be called "Islamophobia" (which is a separate hornet nest as well), but it CAN'T be called "anti-Semitism", because "antisemitism" only refers to Jews alone.
The end. It's THAT simple, really.

 

[Gorbles]

5. This is extremely simple to understand, so I totally don't buy the excuses of those who "don't get it" and thus spout nonsense about "anti-Semitism towards Palestinians

I think your delivery method is so poor people mistake what you're talking about for other things, and this is a problem only you can solve. Best of luck!

6. The latter may or may not be called "Islamophobia" (which is a separate hornet nest as well), but it CAN'T be called "anti-Semitism", because "antisemitism" only refers to Jews alone.

Yeah, you're just not reading my posts:

I don't agree with Henri's position because "antisemitism" as we commonly understand it is directly solely at Jews despite Semitic people being a far wider and more varied demographic on the whole, but I also believe you can absolutely be "anti" "Semitic" (people). We just call that racism though.

Great "virtue signalling" though

 

[Somebody613]

I think your delivery method is so poor people mistake what you're talking about for other things, and this is a problem only you can solve. Best of luck!

Yeah, you're just not reading my posts:

Great "virtue signalling" though

If you agree with me, why do you continue arguing?
Just say that we came to a conclusive mutual understanding - and that's it.

I do agree that SOME part of the problem MIGHT be my non-native English, but I also still find it to not be severe enough to prevent people from understanding me "from the context".
For example, why would I say that "some Semites can be antisemitic (or even anti-Semitic)", if my entire point is explicitly stated to be about "antisemitism being Jew-hatred"?
This was you assuming a random idea without (lol) reading the entire discussion and the points I kept making over and over again - and which CLEARLY lead in the opposite direction.
So, yes, a part of the fault is on me - but it's also on you as well, and on anyone else who does the same lackluster reading before replying to a random straw man of their own creation.
Sorry not sorry.

 

[Gorbles]

If you agree with me, why do you continue arguing?

Mainly because the way you're approaching every single disagreement in this thread is completely counterproductive, and I thought I could help point that out. Turns out, I can't!

There's no mutual understanding, because you're trying to communicate something that people aren't asking for. I did indeed make a mistake in my reading of your post a while back, but it was terribly-worded, and I explained how. You defaulted back to "non-native English", but you won't grant that considering to other non-native speakers (not me, for the record). So I wasn't really rushing to give you leeway there, considering your English is perfectly good enough for the entire discussion so far.

For example, why would I say that "some Semites can be antisemitic (or even anti-Semitic)", if my entire point is explicitly stated to be about "antisemitism being Jew-hatred"?

The (apparently mistaken) inference being that Palestinians are being antisemitic. This goes with your point, not against it. I was wrong, it seems, but I wasn't random. Accusing Palestinians of being antisemitic is very popular, especially at the moment.

So yeah, of course, this tangent's on both of us. That's how these things go. But I'm not the one throwing out insults or declarations of fallacy like they're going out of fashion, and I am at least trying to read what you're saying. I can honestly say you haven't tried to do the same for me at all. So with all that cleared up, I'm truly out now

 

[Somebody613]

Mainly because the way you're approaching every single disagreement in this thread is completely counterproductive, and I thought I could help point that out. Turns out, I can't!

There's no mutual understanding, because you're trying to communicate something that people aren't asking for. I did indeed make a mistake in my reading of your post a while back, but it was terribly-worded, and I explained how. You defaulted back to "non-native English", but you won't grant that considering to other non-native speakers (not me, for the record). So I wasn't really rushing to give you leeway there, considering your English is perfectly good enough for the entire discussion so far.

The (apparently mistaken) inference being that Palestinians are being antisemitic. This goes with your point, not against it. I was wrong, it seems, but I wasn't random. Accusing Palestinians of being antisemitic is very popular, especially at the moment.

So yeah, of course, this tangent's on both of us. That's how these things go. But I'm not the one throwing out insults or declarations of fallacy like they're going out of fashion, and I am at least trying to read what you're saying. I can honestly say you haven't tried to do the same for me at all. So with all that cleared up, I'm truly out now

Tone down the haughtiness, please.
Other than that, it seems we MOSTLY agree to (not even) disagree on most of what my goal for this thread is.
So, good.

End note, though: "Anti-Semitism" is fallacy-inducing so much, that you already saw someone DOING it in this very thread. So, yes, I do have a basis for pointing it out over and over again.
See ya.

 

[Gorbles]

Tone down the haughtiness, please.

lol:

Whether it was your incomprehension of what I was talking about (and I lean that way, because it's pretty clear I *wasn't* talking about any "nations"), or it's an actual example of word abuse.

I could blame MY "bad English" - but I could also blame YOUR low comprehension skills.

Again, I can give you some slack based on MY "non-native" English, but I also have certain reasonable doubts that you "misread" it on purpose.

To battle the antisemitic fallacies which PEOPLE LIKE YOU spread and thrive on.

You are such an anti-Bublasurbus, ya know.

See what "using words like YOU want to (mis-)use them" leads to?

and on anyone else who does the same lackluster reading before replying to a random straw man of their own creation.

I don't think I will in future, no

 

[Somebody613]

lol:

I didn't say rudeness, I said haughtiness. But let's NOT derail also THERE, lol.
Anything else, or do we agree to kinda partially disagree?

 

[Kyriakos]

Regardless of the implied anti-etymological meaning, antisemitic as a term is here to stay; no one wants to type jewphobic, it is cacophonous beyond what can be suffered

 

[Somebody613]

Regardless of the implied anti-etymological meaning, antisemitic as a term is here to stay; no one wants to type jewphobic, it is cacophonous beyond what can be suffered

I definitely don't want to "ban" the word itself (I outright don't care) - I just want people to use it correctly in the meaning it actually is supposed to mean.
So when someone wants to say that "Israel is Islamophobic/Arabophobic towards Palestinians" - regardless of whether I agree with the implication, I at least want it to be named correctly.
Namely, NOT "anti-Semitism", because it's NOT that.
That's all.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: I think we have beat the anti-semitic, antiSemitic Semitic dead horse enough for one day. Shall we move on?