Antisemitism: How do you personally understand this word?

[Angst]

You answered it yourself.

wut

 

[Somebody613]

Why? I thought this was just seeing what people think?

Obviously. Including people who think that there exists a "Semitism" of which someone is "anti". Which is plain FALSE and WRONG.
Hence - this thread. At least let's speak words by using them in the meaning they ACTUALLY HAVE, ya know.
Oh, and also why I always write it as "antisemitism" - to stress that it's NOT "anti"-"Semitism".
Opinions are opinions, but words are words, don't you agree?

 

[Somebody613]

wut

You told the other poster that they were using the word incorrectly.
This IS why I made this thread - so that people can point out the correct meaning, and those who don't know would learn it.
And those who don't WANT to learn it, well, would expose themselves of NOT WANTING.
See, I can also ask a legitimate personal opinion question, while at the same time exposing ignorance in people who think they are smarter than Wikipedia or Webster.

 

[Angst]

You told the other poster that they were using the word incorrectly.

is this a thread about personal understanding of it or what it generally means

This IS why I made this thread - so that people can point out the correct meaning, and those who don't know would learn it.
And those who don't WANT to learn it, well, would expose themselves of NOT WANTING.
See, I can also ask a legitimate personal opinion question, while at the same time exposing ignorance in people who think they are smarter than Wikipedia or Webster.

henri is clearly aware of what the consensus of the word means. he wanted to dig deeper through etymology to note what it should mean. now, as i noted, it's an etymological trap. but. structurally, it makes sense. the idea that you can have an affliation actively against groups associated with that terminology - jews, arabs, syrians, etc - isn't wrong at all. there are people that very much despise jews and arabs in equal measure. but the word itself as used? doesn't mean that.

but yea, this thread then very much falls into what i clocked in my post. it's not a thread inquiring about people's idea of it, it's begging the question and a kind of trolly way to get people to "expose" themselves, whatever that means. pretty weird idea of 5d chess. trap card. whatever.

i'm also curious as to what exactly it entails as to other people supposedly not wanting to learn.

 

[Somebody613]

is this a thread about personal understanding of it or what it generally means

henri is clearly aware of what the consensus of the word means. he wanted to dig deeper through etymology to note what it should mean. now, as i noted, it's an etymological trap. but. structurally, it makes sense. the idea that you can have an affliation actively against groups associated with that terminology - jews, arabs, syrians, etc - isn't wrong at all. there are people that very much despise jews and arabs in equal measure. but the word itself as used? doesn't mean that.

but yea, this thread then very much falls into what i clocked in my post. it's not a thread inquiring about people's idea of it, it's begging the question and a kind of trolly way to get people to "expose" themselves, whatever that means. pretty weird idea of 5d chess. trap card. whatever.

i'm also curious as to what exactly it entails as to other people supposedly not wanting to learn.

It's BOTH.
I do want to see how people express the concept of "Jew-hatred" - because you CAN define it in more than one way, so I'm mildly curious.
At the same time, though, there are people who want to DESTROY the concept of "Jew-hatred" by "including other Semites" into it.
Their underlying goal is explicitly to eliminate the commonly used word for "Jew-hatred" and replace (and manipulate) it into "there is no Jew-hatred without Arab-hatred".
Which is explicitly false, but also is itself a form of actual antisemitism, because it ends up with "Israel is antisemitic by hating Palestinians".
After all, there IS "Islamophobia" out there - so how about these people use THAT for "Arab-hatred"?
Or coin something like "Arabophobia", if they want to go by culture and not by religion (though it's rarely practical to make this distinction).
In ANY case, lumping "other Semites" together with Jews into "antisemitism" - is clearly to run for a goal of mudding the waters and confusing people into "antisemitic Israel".
And that is what I'm NOT going to TOLERATE whatsoever.
Both as a linguistic fallacy and as a dishonest propaganda trick.
I don't accept either, period.

 

[Angst]

then preface the point of the thread instead of pretending it's something else

 

[Gorbles]

Obviously. Including people who think that there exists a "Semitism" of which someone is "anti". Which is plain FALSE and WRONG.
Hence - this thread. At least let's speak words by using them in the meaning they ACTUALLY HAVE, ya know.
Oh, and also why I always write it as "antisemitism" - to stress that it's NOT "anti"-"Semitism".
Opinions are opinions, but words are words, don't you agree?

A people aren't a "someone". Assuming everyone in a demographic is anti-anything is also a tricky (nigh unprovable) assumption, and an uncharitable one to boot.

As for the spelling, antisemitism, anti-semitism, and anti-Semitism are all accepted, as is the meaning (heck, I provided a meaning myself that specifically references Jewish folk, which is what I use). But your tirade is approaching dogma, here

 

[innonimatu]

My current definition for the word is: "a politically convenient excuse for attempting to conduct the modern equivalent of the Herero genocide with impunity"

Definitions of words must change with their use. I home this will change in teh future, rather than go into history books as this.

 

[Zardnaar]

Racism towards jewish people.

Pretty much this.

 

[Somebody613]

A people aren't a "someone".

See, THIS is actually another example of the same fallacy (but has nothing to do with this thread).
You used "people" as "nation" - while I used "people" as "several individuals".
Whether it was your incomprehension of what I was talking about (and I lean that way, because it's pretty clear I *wasn't* talking about any "nations"), or it's an actual example of word abuse.

 

[Gorbles]

See, THIS is actually another example of the same fallacy (but has nothing to do with this thread).
You used "people" as "nation" - while I used "people" as "several individuals".

Let's examine the quote again, shall we?

Including people who think that there exists a "Semitism" of which someone is "anti".

The "people" here is a group. Represented in-thread by Henri.

However, your objection is to Henri - and people like him - attempting to widen the definition of antisemitism to include, in your words, "someone" is "anti"(semitic).

Your position here is very clear. Antisemitism is prejudice against Jews (for being Jewish). But you're also justifying this by claiming that (technically) Semitic people are antisemitic, and therefore can't ever be included.

Now, I agree that antisemitism as we all use it refers to Jews and not all Semitic demographics, however I object to you implicitly calling Palestinians and / or Arabs in general antisemitic. They're the "someone" in your quote. Which is why I said "someone" is not a people.

It's okay to say "antisemitism actually refers to prejudice against Jews specifically". It's not okay to say "you can't use antisemitism to describe (actions against) Palestinians because they're antisemitic themselves". Because you can't prove that. It's a negative assumption about Palestinians for no other reason than they're Palestinian.

You know there's a word for that too, right?

Whether it was your incomprehension of what I was talking about (and I lean that way, because it's pretty clear I *wasn't* talking about any "nations"), or it's an actual example of word abuse.

Rushing to call something "word abuse" doesn't strengthen your argument, and it doesn't help support your claim in the OP of wanting to hear people's opinions.

How many people in western cities have the privilege to be phobic about islam? Honestly I have never met antisemitism in my country. In London on the visit, I met it every day.

The UK has issues with a wide array of bigotry. This includes Islamaphobia as well as antisemitism, regardless of whether or not you've seen either personally.

 

[Henri Christophe]

No, antisemitism is hatred of Jews specifically. The term was invented essentially to give an aura of science and rationality to centuries-old religious prejudice.

Thankfull the language isn't dead and don't mean the word was used more often against the jews don't mean the Jews aren't antisemitic when attack another semitic peoples as the palestinians.

 

[Samson]

You can argue all you like that inflammable is the opposite of flammable, but that is not going to make it a good idea to pour petrol on a fire.

 

[Somebody613]

You can argue all you like that inflammable is the opposite of flammable, but that is not going to make it a good idea to pour petrol on a fire.

I can almost bet that "some people" (yes, this is on purpose) will end up pouring it anyways while screaming that "we are the only True Language Speakers..." *BOOOM*

 

[Somebody613]

Let's examine the quote again, shall we?

The "people" here is a group. Represented in-thread by Henri.

However, your objection is to Henri - and people like him - attempting to widen the definition of antisemitism to include, in your words, "someone" is "anti"(semitic).

Your position here is very clear. Antisemitism is prejudice against Jews (for being Jewish). But you're also justifying this by claiming that (technically) Semitic people are antisemitic, and therefore can't ever be included.

Now, I agree that antisemitism as we all use it refers to Jews and not all Semitic demographics, however I object to you implicitly calling Palestinians and / or Arabs in general antisemitic. They're the "someone" in your quote. Which is why I said "someone" is not a people.

It's okay to say "antisemitism actually refers to prejudice against Jews specifically". It's not okay to say "you can't use antisemitism to describe (actions against) Palestinians because they're antisemitic themselves". Because you can't prove that. It's a negative assumption about Palestinians for no other reason than they're Palestinian.

You know there's a word for that too, right?

Rushing to call something "word abuse" doesn't strengthen your argument, and it doesn't help support your claim in the OP of wanting to hear people's opinions.


The UK has issues with a wide array of bigotry. This includes Islamaphobia as well as antisemitism, regardless of whether or not you've seen either personally.

There are some [people](1) that think that there exists a [group](2) of which [someone](3) is [type](4).
Now, you read it as: (1) think that (2) partially(3) includes (4).
But what I actually meant: (1) think that (2) exists and there's ALSO a (3) who are (4) towards (2).
To regroup it better: Some people(1) think that some other people(3) are "anti"(4) towards "Semites"(2).
Again, I can give you some slack based on MY "non-native" English, but I also have certain reasonable doubts that you "misread" it on purpose.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling.

 

[Somebody613]

Thankfull the language isn't dead and don't mean the word was used more often against the jews don't mean the Jews aren't antisemitic when attack another semitic peoples as the palestinians.

And here's an actual example of a (1), who outright includes (4) as a part of (2), although kinda in reverse.

 

[Gorbles]

I could blame MY "bad English" - but I could also blame YOUR low comprehension skills.
There are some [people](1) that think that there exists a [group](2) of which [someone](3) is [type](4).
Now, you read it as: (1) think that (2) partially(3) includes (4).
But what I actually meant: (1) think that (2) exists and there's ALSO a (3) who are (4) towards (2).
To regroup it better: Some people(1) think that some other people(3) are "anti"(4) towards "Semites"(2).
Again, I can give you some slack based on MY "non-native" English, but I also have certain reasonable doubts that you "misread" it on purpose.

Again, assuming bad faith because it's convenient for your argument to do so doesn't really affirm what you said about wanting to hear peoples' opinions. But I'll try this one more time.

Here's the quote:

Obviously. Including people who think that there exists a "Semitism" of which someone is "anti". Which is plain FALSE and WRONG.
Hence - this thread. At least let's speak words by using them in the meaning they ACTUALLY HAVE, ya know.
Oh, and also why I always write it as "antisemitism" - to stress that it's NOT "anti"-"Semitism".
Opinions are opinions, but words are words, don't you agree?

So what you're saying is that you actually meant "people think the word Semitism exists" (which it does), that people can be "anti" towards (they can) . . . and that this is wrong?

I think you're getting too hung up on semantics. I don't agree with Henri's position because "antisemitism" as we commonly understand it is directly solely at Jews despite Semitic people being a far wider and more varied demographic on the whole, but I also believe you can absolutely be "anti" "Semitic" (people). We just call that racism though.

Also, as I said before, all three spellings of antisemitism are accepted. You can spell it however you like, but you don't get to tell people their spelling is incorrect just because you think it might be mistakenly applied to other Semitic people. The spelling is fine.

 

[Somebody613]

Again, assuming bad faith because it's convenient for your argument to do so doesn't really affirm what you said about wanting to hear peoples' opinions. But I'll try this one more time.

Here's the quote:

So what you're saying is that you actually meant "people think the word Semitism exists" (which it does), that people can be "anti" towards (they can) . . . and that this is wrong?

I think you're getting too hung up on semantics. I don't agree with Henri's position because "antisemitism" as we commonly understand it is directly solely at Jews despite Semitic people being a far wider and more varied demographic on the whole, but I also believe you can absolutely be "anti" "Semitic" (people). We just call that racism though.

Also, as I said before, all three spellings of antisemitism are accepted. You can spell it however you like, but you don't get to tell people their spelling is incorrect just because you think it might be mistakenly applied to other Semitic people. The spelling is fine.

No, it's not. Because antisemitism is NOT targeting anyone who isn't specifically Jewish. Not Arabs, not Assyrians, not anyone else. Just Jews.
So when you INSIST on "Semitism" - you also INSIST on "anti-Semitic Israel attacking Arab Semites".
Which is why I. Made. This. Thread.
To battle the antisemitic fallacies which PEOPLE LIKE YOU spread and thrive on.
And here's a 1.000.000 shekels question:
Link me a Wiki (or equivalent) page for "Semitism" (in that specific word form), will ya?
Because, again, to be "anti-something", there must be a standalone word for that "something".
So, if you insist on "anti-Semitism" - show me a Wiki page for "Semitism", of which "some people" are "anti".
Let's see.

Spoiler:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitism includes:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitism_(linguistics) a linguistic effect in a language.
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism lol!
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosemitism the reverse-colored cousin of Antisemitism.
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people a wrong word form, unless you invent "anti-Semitic people" (which is a lol in its own stead).

 

[Gorbles]

No, it's not. Because antisemitism is NOT targeting anyone who isn't specifically Jewish. Not Arabs, not Assyrians, not anyone else. Just Jews.
So when you INSIST on "Semitism" - you also INSIST on "anti-Semitic Israel attacking Arab Semites".
Which is why I. Made. This. Thread.
To battle the antisemitic fallacies which PEOPLE LIKE YOU spread and thrive on.
And here's a 1.000.000 shekels question:
Link me a Wiki (or equivalent) page for "Semitism" (in that specific word form), will ya?
Because, again, to be "anti-something", there must be a standalone word for that "something".
So, if you insist on "anti-Semitism" - show me a Wiki page for "Semitism", of which "some people" are "anti".
Let's see.

I get the feeling you're not reading my posts.

 

[Somebody613]

I get the feeling you're not reading my posts.

I get you can't show me a "Semitism" page anywhere (beyond what I linked myself), because there isn't one.