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Anyone else quit playing?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by sonicboom12345, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. Lewi11

    Lewi11 Chieftain

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    Completely agree!
    I could deal with all the little bugs like the last construction complete error. But the useless AI and lack of balance just ruin the game for me completely. No challenge.

    I hope it gets patched to a point where the game is challenging. If so, I'd definitely start playing again. Won't change the fact that I paid full price for a broken game on release.
     
    HF22 and oedali like this.
  2. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

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    Any chances You learn something in this process? Or are You just the "Uups, I did it again" type?

    Don't get me wrong. After my first couple of bought games I knew, that buying a 'V1.0' game IS stupid. And did it repeatedly despite of that. But I always knew, who was responsible for my personal situation. (Growing older the patience also can grow.)

    Considering the never ending pain You seem to feel, I ask myself, whether You will learn something and optimize your future behaviour?
     
  3. krc

    krc King

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    I haven't quite quit, but I'm getting awfully close.

    The game just feels tedious. Everything takes forever, and none of the decisions really seems to matter. I've started at least half-a-dozen games, got into some middle period, and quit out of boredom. (And, as background, I've been playing Civ since the Avalon Hill board game, and have bought and played every version near launch since Civ1. And I've played enough games of Civ6 to have victories with at least a third of the leaders, on different map types and sizes.)

    It bothers me that there are entire subsytems that add micromanaging to no effect.
    Religion
    Perhaps the most enjoyable game I have played so far was as the Kongo, who are designed to ignore religion. It was liberating. I realized that unless I want to go for a religious victory from the start, I don't have to build holy cites, shrines, temples, apostles.... I can just ignore the whole thing. And it has almost no impact on how I play the rest of the game. The only thing you have to do is keep track of whether an AI civ is getting close to its own religious victory in case you have to kill them off.

    This came after a game where I had started my own region and was spreading it around the region when three English missionaries showed up. I contacted Victoria and asked her not to convert my cities. She (of course) agreed. And, the very next turn, (of course) all three missionaries tried to convert one of my cities. So, I denounced her. And she used all three missionaries against my city the very next turn. So, I want to declare war, but apparently I have to wait for some arbitrary and unknown length of time to get a casus belli. So, I declare war anyway. Note that this is the first war I have declared in the game. And every other AI immediately decides that I'm a warmonger (which will, in practice, never go away). Really?

    My conclusion: it is better to just ignore the entire religious subsystem. (How does that make the game more fun?)

    Spying
    Let's ignore the fact that the user interface is abysmal, requiring about three times as many clicks to do anything as should actually be necessary. And the fact that I have no idea how one gets more spies after the first one.

    What does matter is that the "siphon funds" event is potentially game breaking. (Example: I played one game where I was ten turns from completing the final two parts of the Mars expedition. I get a notice that a spy has started siphoning funds in an amount at least ten times higher than my treasury. Units start getting disbanded every turn. And, since I have a large empire and am at the limit of what I need for amenities, I'm running a policy where garrisons add one. As units disband, rebellions break out. And I have to move more garrison troops out to deal with rebellions. Which keep spreading. Ten turns later, I'm now almost thirty turns away from a science victory. Which I still haven't gotten, because the other two times I tried it, I got an accidental cultural victory instead.) And I'm not really sure if I defend against the "siphon funds" attack in the city center or in the commercial hub, since the (worthless?) Civilopedia has no entry that explains it.

    But the real problem with the spy subsystem is that it's a tedious game of whack-a-mole. Since you have multiple districts per city that need to be defended (almost) separately, you can easily require two or even three spies per city. With six cities, that's 12-18 targets. You will never have enough spies. So, you defend some places, and the industrial hub or spaceport that is undefended elsewhere gets hit. So you move your spies (and lose ten turns of city production just repairing stuff). It's like continuously buying a losing lottery ticket (and having to hit yourself in the head with a hammer when it doesn't pay off).

    If I had an option to turn off the spy system entirely, I'd use it immediately and never look back.
     
  4. Lewi11

    Lewi11 Chieftain

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    Haha well yeah I have learnt now. I wouldn't quite say "uups I did it again". I've only bought 3 PC games in the last 10 years. One of them was Civ5 but I bought it around 3 years after release. By that time, the AI did pose a pretty good challenge for me. I thought the game was awesome and assumed that was just how it was from release, like all the RTS games I played in the 90's and early 2000's. The other game was CoH2, it was by no means bug-free on release but the AI did at least pose a challenge, so I was happy with it. I had no idea that Civ games (or apparently most PC games) were released in such a poor state and then patched up until just recently when I joined these forums after buying Civ 6.

    I still wouldn't say it's "stupid", even if you already knew all this, to expect an at least reasonably challenging game on release. It IS possible. I think the fact that so many people don't seem to care\ want to object\ vote with their credit cards is the reason why producers feel safe in releasing games in such a state (of course there are also those who are satisfied with the game despite the AI issue, which I respect) . I don't think the "that's just how the industry is" attitude is ever a good attitude to have nor a reason to just accept sub-standard products.

    But yes, at least with games, there is the option of not buying them. I certainly have learnt my lesson and won't be buying Civ 7 (or whatever is next) until\unless the AI can pose a strategic challenge.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
  5. c4c6

    c4c6 Prince

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    Yes, it is possible. I don't want go so far to judge producers, "the industry", whatever ... just my personal experience after buying dozens of games. Any unpleasant situations are likely. Crashes, nasty bugs, unable AI ...

    I don't suggest "not to buy" on initial release, but want lower the expectations of the first minute buyers, help to become aware "that they are in for a rough ride" ... and sometimes this means, well, that they are in for a bloody bad rough ride ... my experience is, if I say "would be more comfortable to wait, but hey, what the heck, All in!" it is easier to stand the coming months, handle down moments. Nobody cheated me, it was my decision. Again, no judgment what's right or wrong. Just what's healthier for my emotions, what feels better for me ... ends well, alls well - to an extend, that some think, I'm "overly optimistic".

    (edit: suppose, it's a question of my perception: am I subject or object)
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
    Lewi11 likes this.
  6. bmrigs

    bmrigs Chieftain

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    I have had my fill of Civ 6 until the game gets better with mods and DLCs. I am back to playing Banished.
     
  7. cll3

    cll3 Chieftain

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    Me, but I feel like I got maximum utility out of it already. 455 hours... so from release date, that's like every spare moment, including a couple of weekends consisting of only 2 total meals, zero showers, rest gaming. 455 hours is way more than expected for me, since it's not a true "pvp" game like Chess, Baduk/Go or Starcraft, Poker, Dota etc. Usually games like this only give me around 100 hours, so I'm pretty happy with this. And that's not counting future binge revisits. I still randomly binge civ3, fft1.3 and bg2 improved anvil every once in awhile heh.
     
  8. rkade8583

    rkade8583 Realism Invictus Player

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    Waiting for the AI not to suck and for huge/marathon to be in any way balanced.
     
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  9. Arkatakor

    Arkatakor King

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    I am no Firaxis fanboi even though i've been on the series since Civ 1. And by no means do I want to defend them for the abysmal release that was Civ 6. I do however, have experience working in the games industry and can assert that deadlines set by publishers can stifle creativity and compromise the game. This is what seems to be happening within Firaxis - 2K Games holds them by the balls. I read on glassdoor.com from people who worked in Firaxis that they are very bound to their publisher's deadlines.

    Thus there is no doubt in my mind that many developers within Firaxis know that Civ 6 was not a finished product but had to release anyway. Its that age old conflict between the developer and the publisher. Thats why companies like Nintendo do not ever release hard deadlines (until the last minute) for their flagship titles like Zelda. Their philosophy is that "the game is ready when its ready" and thus does not have a preset release date (until its almost ready). That ensures the quality of the product. Firaxis needs to start adopting this approach or it will continue to lose whats left of its declining fanbase.

    Though I understand why Firaxis released a flawed product (as a former game developer), as a gamer, I do not expect to be treated like a beta tester, and thats exactly how Civ 6 makes me feel. So I say to Firaxis: change the way you release your products by unbinding yourself form hard set deadlines or continue to lose the confidence of your fanbase.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  10. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    I'm not sure linking to Steamchat is in any way indicative of the company's fanbase, considering that Civilisation 6 peaked higher than Civilisation 5 ever did. Yes, the numbers are lower than they were on launch. This is a truism that holds for every single game on the market that had some kind of pre-launch advertising or PR.

    You also make a point of stressing where 2K fits into the equation, but you continue to assume that Firaxis have control over this relationship. You should be criticising 2K for holding their development teams to unreasonable deadlines, surely?
     
  11. Arkatakor

    Arkatakor King

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    If Firaxis does not have control, it needs to do everything in its power to get control was my point. The two its latest flagship releases of Firaxis (BE and now Civ 6) have been a disappointment for many fans.

    As for the decline quote, I feel the sharp decline for this product speaks for itself. As you say though time time give us the full picture. My feeling is that Civ 6 will never reach the average per year number of players that Civ 5 did. I hope to be proven wrong.
     
  12. Sequitor

    Sequitor Chieftain

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    I haven't played in a few weeks, but I will be back. We have so many excellent strategy games to choose from, that we should rotate through them as they improve. I went back to Stellaris after 1.4 was recently released after not playing it for more than 4 months. The game is much improved, and I'm enjoying this play through quite a bit. I'm sure it will be even better 6 months from now.

    I'm not sure what game will follow, but I've got MANY to choose from. I consider Civ 6 to be a long term investment. I predict 2 things: the game will get a lot better and we will still complain about it.
     
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  13. Sic

    Sic Chieftain

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    This is one of the things that irks me something fierce about CIV6.

    You mention a couple of things, but there are oodles more.

    With the absence of an AI that does anything worthwhile, you're left with obsessing over the efficiency with which you deal with everything else. I simply don't understand what on earth the point is with the boost/eureka system. All it does is making me spend a ton of time doing boring (and ultimately situationally useless) things, instead of worrying about what's going on on the board. It's not situational at all, it's just tedious. They're not even close to being hard enough, or rewarding enough, to make a difference in how I play.

    Districts are the same. I do the same every game, because there is one way that is the most efficient way to play.

    There might be some good thoughts hidden under layers of iteration here, but in the end, they turned out quite bland and useless. Just more stuff to do, so you won't worry about the AI acting utterly lobotomised.
     
  14. 0R4NG3

    0R4NG3 Prince

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    I quit, but to be fair I've played quite a lot: 3 games as Russia initially and then once with each leader from the top of the list until Norway on Deity. Won all of them, except for the one with Norway, which is still in progress.
    Quit, because the game felt unbalanced: too easy on pre-Deity levels and unfair on Deity. Many features are not thought out or not implemented properly: diplomacy, espionage, unit movement, production.
    AI afraid to attack and take cities. Some AI inexplicably lagging in tech and others slingshotting crazily ahead. AI not knowing how to win. Etc. etc. etc.
    Hoping for a patch or an expansion to fix these issues.
     
  15. narmox

    narmox Emperor

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    I quit because I need to stop going to bed after 4am.... I still love the game despite its flaws, but real life must take priority.
     
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  16. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    The problem with "I hope to be proven wrong" is that very few people actually post, or admit, after the fact. This is simply my anecdotal experience on web forums, but following up a flawed critique (or conclusion, in this case) with "I hope to be proven wrong" means very little, it's just a placebo to make it seem like you have good intentions. Forgive my cynicism, but I've had years of this exact same back-and-forth. If you hope to be proven wrong, start now by making stronger correlations. Don't base conclusions on popularity a single data point (a single snapshot from a single chart referencing a relatively short period in time).

    Every single major release with an established fanbase will have disappointed fans. Civilisation 5, which you left out of your listing there, had disappointed fans. Thanks to people who've dug up forum records from this very forum, Civilisation IV had similar detractors. It's a universal truism.

    Every single title on Steam experiences a sharp drop from initial player numbers, with few exceptions (and you'll find the self-sustaining exceptions to be F2P, to boot). This number then climbs over time, assuming further support and an active community (CiV wouldn't be where it is without its modding scene, for example).

    These are not new things, and attempting to paint Firaxis' later titles in a negative light because of them is not a strong argument.
     
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  17. bdemz

    bdemz Chieftain

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    I have and went back to 5....just cant play this without HOF records
     
  18. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    I quit every evening around 11. And keep coming back the next evening. At the rate I play, I expect another couple of months of enjoyment at least, despite the game's many flaws.
     
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  19. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Deity

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    I quit playing too because of AI, or lack thereof. I tried again when they did their patch, and it's still garbage. Playing EU IV right now.
     
  20. Arkatakor

    Arkatakor King

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    Are you suggesting that the release of this game in its current form is acceptable? I am stating that this game was not ready for release and that Firaxis more recent title releases have been getting worse and worse. Yes Civ V was bad, but not as bad as this or BE. Releases are going from bad to worse; Thats my point.
     

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