Anyone seen Mongolia lately?

[steveg700]

I was just commenting in another thread that since civ's can now demand tribute from city-states, it would be a no-brainer to have a civ that received a bonus to doing it. I proposed it as an idea for a Majapahit civ, but then it occurred to me...I haven't seen Mongolia in any of the previews. If any civ would receive a bonus to demanding tribute, it's them. It would be easy enough to swap out the 30% bonus for attacking to something specific to bullying CS's.

Have we seen Mongolia in any of the preview material? I know one video showed the civ selection screen which included a lot of civ's, but I don't think Mongolia was one of them..?

 

[Heinage]

I think Mongolia is not interested in bullying, but rather conquering.

Just out of interest, how would you give a bonus to bullying? Would it be in the form of a better success rate when bullying?

 

[steveg700]

I think Mongolia is not interested in bullying, but rather conquering.

Just out of interest, how would you give a bonus to bullying? Would it be in the form of a better success rate when bullying?

Perhaps, but historically, they usually settled for tribute.

In the ideas and suggestions forum, I posted an idea for Majapahit. It loses only half the influence from demanding tribute from a city-state that shares a border with it, and has a unit that a CS counts as two units for purpose of bullying.

Of course, we don't know the full mechanics behind demanding tribute, such as how frequently it can be attempted or how strong a force has to be near the border, so there's room for adjustment. It likely takes into account the strength of the units nearby, and combat strength bonuses like the Mongols currently have are factored in.

 

[Liex]

Perhaps they're saving something like that for an eventual future civ, such as the Portuguese (the best example I can think of) or even the Majapahit themselves.

 

[Gucumatz]

Yea I hope they changed Mongolia's UA. Demanding tribute at a higher rate (either less influence or more gold like 30% more gold) would make the second part of their UA in many cases more desirable and more historically relevant in my mind.

 

[seasnake]

Mongolia got a huge buff already: City State's no longer go the permanent war thing if you take one or two of them. So now they can use their ability and not worry about hacking off every city state on the map.

 

[Gucumatz]

Mongolia got a huge buff already: City State's no longer go the permanent war thing if you take one or two of them. So now they can use their ability and not worry about hacking off every city state on the map.

While true, city state warmongering still will lead to huge repercussions. I don't know about you, but in most of my games the AI tends to pledge protection to city states really quick (like when they find them). And if they do so, with G&K it will practically mean auto-war odds are with a civ earlier. This could actually make Mongolia's UA more useless even because having an auto war with a civ early on can be worse than having pesky perm wars vs city states

I think its too early to really say Mongolia got a buff. In truth I suspect when we play G&K that any effect with diplomacy will be truly minimal. And while it can be nice to take a nice city state or two, often times people would rather not as it takes extra time and often provides less strategic purpose than people realize.

 

[elprofesor]

That's not such a huge buff. You need to DoW a lot of CSs before permanent war becomes anything more than a nuisance. And friendly/allied CS won't permawar you while their influence remains high enough, so after a while you can simply invade the CSs that you haven't allied and suffer no penalty.

The real deal breaker is that conquering a CS is just as bad as genociding a civilization, which means that you find yourself completely cut diplomatically from all other civs and labeled as "worst warmonger ever" as soon as you take 2 CSs. Even the first one will hurt you a lot.

 

[Pax_Romanus]

You need to DoW a lot of CSs before permanent war becomes anything more than a nuisance.

I've had perma-war declared on me by taking workers from two city states before. I didn't even "attack" I just declared war against two CS's and that was it. The only reason I didn't have every CS at war with me was because I hadn't met most of them when this happened. I think this all happened around turn 70-ish.

 

[elprofesor]

DoWing two CS doesn't provoke perma-war with all CSs, just with some of them. You probably were unlucky with which CS declared on you.

 

[Glassmage]

you only get declared perma-war by city states you met already, not undiscovered ones.

 

[Gucumatz]

you only get declared perma-war by city states you met already, not undiscovered ones.

I rarely declare war on City States, so I may be wrong... but when I have done this (war 2 times or more on CS) there have been city states I have met but have no influence with still not perm war me.

 

[steveg700]

So, what I take form all this is...Nobody's seen Mongolia as part of any previews.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Well, aside from France, I don't think we've seen most (any?) old Civs.

 

[steveg700]

We had the Descructoid preview where they scrolled through the civ selection screen. That right there tipped us off to a lot of stuff. Don't think Mongolia was one of them.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

May I point out that Mongolia is, infact a DLC? It's jut free, but I swear I saw Babylon in one of the screenshots (recognized the color scheme)

 

[Uberfrog]

May I point out that Mongolia is, infact a DLC?

Not really, since (as far as I can recall) it is automatically downloaded by Steam. It's effectively a part of the basic game, as there's no way for you not to have it installed. Unless you've been without internet for the past year and a half.

It might be called a civ pack DLC, but to all intents and purposes, it's as much "DLC" as Stone, the New World natural wonders and Atolls are. I can't imagine a Firaxis build would not have it installed, but I could be wrong.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Not really, since (as far as I can recall) it is automatically downloaded by Steam. It's effectively a part of the basic game, as there's no way for you not to have it installed. Unless you've been without internet for the past year and a half.

It might be called a civ pack DLC, but to all intents and purposes, it's as much "DLC" as Stone, the New World natural wonders and Atolls are. I can't imagine a Firaxis build would not have it installed, but I could be wrong.

As far as I'm aware, you can't remove the Atolls, Stone, New World natural wonders as they come with a patch, not a DLC.

You CAN remoe Mongolia from the game, the game considers it a DLC, (ability to check/uncheck in MP). So it IS a DLC.