April 2021 Developer Livestream Discussion

[Kupe Navigator]

Well, there sure are a lot of negative Nellys commenting at the moment. I guess you can't win them all.

why is it that SOME civs get major changes whiles others get small to no changes?

 

[Guynemer]

why is it that SOME civs get major changes whiles others get small to no changes?

It is balance changes; Civ Expanded is more of a complete rewrite of many civs, and that's not what a balance pass is looking to do.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I don't care for most of that mod actually. Making things OMGEXTREME isn't the opposite of "lazy." We'll see how the changes work in practice but often subtle takes way more work.

one thing that mod did right was moving CA for Korea to Seowon bonus and giving Korea a unique CA... why can't devs do THIS? move current CA to UD and give Korea a unique CA that dose NOT rely on its UD!!!!!!!!
like I said before if you remove UD Korea has nothing. Name any civs that is nothing once you remove its Unique infrastructure!

 

[CromulentRomulan]

Well, there sure are a lot of negative Nellys commenting at the moment. I guess you can't win them all.

There is a definite trend on this forum that people become really defensive in favour of the game the moment valid criticism is levelled against it. Are Civ fans the best fans in gaming because they are so unwaveringly loyal?

 

[Kupe Navigator]

It is balance changes; Civ Expanded is more of a complete rewrite of many civs, and that's not what a balance pass is looking to do.

yeah well why can't Korea get CA that doesn't rely upon UD?
Korea is ONLY civ to have it.

 

[DWilson]

I can't say without interviewing a team of Firaxians, but I would guess it's a combination of game statistics (improving less popular civs), observations of fan feedback across a number of forums, inspirations for design change, feasibility of inspirations, QA playtesting, balancing of resources, and several other variables.

I certainly wasn't expecting much change for most civs when they announced the volume of targets, especially when they seem to be focusing on content beyond civs alone for improvements and balance change.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I certainly wasn't expecting much change for most civs when they announced the volume of targets, especially when they seem to be focusing on content beyond civs alone for improvements and balance change.

they should've been honest and said "hey we are focusing other things than civ balance changes. So balance changes are going to be minor for this patch"
DID THEY EVER SAID IT?

 

[Leucarum]

one thing that mod did right was moving CA for Korea to Seowon bonus and giving Korea a unique CA... why can't devs do THIS? move current CA to UD and give Korea a unique CA that dose NOT rely on its UD!!!!!!!!
like I said before if you remove UD Korea has nothing. Name any civs that is nothing once you remove its Unique infrastructure!

Germany wothout the Hansa would be U boats, combat strength vs city states, a military policy slot and some extra districts... I think that probably counts no?

 

[bengalryan9]

so in conclusion: New units good
Civ rework: bad and lazy.
And they highlighted civ rework as major selling point.
When will I EVER learn...

So because a small handful of civs weren't buffed or changed to your liking that invalidates all the other changes? That seems a bit much...

I guess I will play with civ expanded if I wanted some REAL changes to Korea. Dev has lost the balls with this one. a fan can do better why can't devs?

Regardless of what you personally may or may not want Korea to be, they are pretty clearly designed to be an easy civ for beginners (or those moving up in difficulty) to play. There needs to be civs like that in this game. Korea is still that, and in fact they're event better at that now. That may be boring to a lot of us, but oh well... the civ just might not be aimed at players like us, and there's tons of other civs we can choose to give us something more in line with what we want.

 

[CromulentRomulan]

Haven't been playing this game all that long - from what has been revealed would you longer term players consider that the new units or the balance changes are what makes this “probably the biggest community update event ever.”

 

[Kupe Navigator]

So because a small handful of civs weren't buffed or changed to your liking that invalidates all the other changes?

only 2 civs received any meaningful changes... TWO!

 

[bengalryan9]

they should've been honest and said "hey we are focusing other things than civ balance changes. So balance changes are going to be minor for this patch"
DID THEY EVER SAID IT?

Except they're not minor, at all. They're just minor for a few specific civs that you're disappointed about, and you're going to look past a bunch of major changes because of it.

 

[DWilson]

There is a definite trend on this forum that people become really defensive in favour of the game the moment valid criticism is levelled against it. Are Civ fans the best fans in gaming because they are so unwaveringly loyal?

You know this is a forum for people who generally like the game series well enough to adopt the moniker 'fanatics', right? I'm generally pleased with the game even before these changes, and like most of what they have announced. I didn't need or expect full reworks of every civ. I think that's true of many.

Everyone is free to be displeased or ecstatic, or really anywhere in between. But when there is a surge of negativity, I don't think my comment constitutes "really defensive" lol.

 

[DWilson]

yeah well why can't Korea get CA that doesn't rely upon UD?
Korea is ONLY civ to have it.

Because they like that design, the thematic feel, and there isn't a version of the game they've produced wherein Korea doesn't go hand in hand with the Seowon.

 

[bengalryan9]

only 2 civs received any meaningful changes... TWO!

BS. Canada's buffed huge, as is Mapuche, as is Khmer. That's three right there that we knew of before today even started, and I'm sure we haven't seen everything coming in the patch yet either.

I do get a kick out of how mad you get about this perceived exaggeration coming from the devs when you're exaggerating to a ridiculous degree, but you do you.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

BS. Canada's buffed huge, as is Mapuche, as is Khmer. That's three right there that we knew of before today even started, and I'm sure we haven't seen everything coming in the patch yet either.

that is still less than 10%
If other changes are on the same as Korea... that is biggest let down EVER.

 

[CromulentRomulan]

So because a small handful of civs weren't buffed or changed to your liking that invalidates all the other changes? .

The spirit of criticism in this thread is not what you are caricaturing - it is that the Civs which have been listed as receiving a balance change have received very minor updates. Of those updates that are known several of the changes made seem questionable from a balance perspective. I think people are more irked that Korea didn't get a redesign. However it is questionable that Korea received any change while India received none. It is jarring that powerful China received a buff that reinforces their playstyle identity while Kongo, most affected by cumulative faith economy changes, takes a nerf. As it stands it doesn't seem to meet many people's criteria of a balance pass, which is itself interesting given the emphasis Firaxis chose to place on this balance patch being informed by the opinions of its fans

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Because they like that design, the thematic feel, and there isn't a version of the game they've produced wherein Korea doesn't go hand in hand with the Seowon.

what is so thematic about it? That is just lazy. It was lazy when they did it for Rise and fall and it is lazy now.
They just went "bruh we have to do Korea? Bah just give plain science buff!"
Korea has it WORSE than Babylon... At least Babylon is unique.

 

[Guynemer]

that is still less than 10%
If other changes are on the same as Korea... that is biggest let down EVER.

My dude, this sounds more like a problem with your expectations than with what Firaxis has done with the patch.

 

[CromulentRomulan]

But when there is a surge of negativity, I don't think my comment constitutes "really defensive" lol.

To clarify what I was trying to get across. You perceived, and chose to belittle, valid criticism as a surge of negativity. I'd consider that acting defensive.