April 2021 Update - Patch Notes Discussion

[Duke William of Normandy]

From Potato's Livestream, the theoretical CS the Hoplite can have, if you play your cards right, is 53 CS. INSANE!!!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Can someone tell me what start bias tiers are?

Tier 1: most likely
Tier 2: less likely than Tier 1, but still likely
Tier 3: less likely than Tier 2, but still likely
Tier 4: less likely than Tier 3, but still likely
Tier 5: less likely than Tier 4, but still likely

 

[Kwami]

Can someone tell me what start bias tiers are?

Replace "tier" with "priority" and it makes more sense. Basically, the map tries to meet as many starting biases as it can, but it prioritizes those at a higher tier. So, a tier 1 start bias is more likely to fire than a tier 5 bias. Most civilizations don't have a bias at all, so even a tier 5 bias is worth something if it's a good bias.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

From Potato's Livestream, the theoretical CS the Hoplite can have, if you play your cards right, is 53 CS. INSANE!!!

Is that when playing as Gorgo?

Maybe it was just the -5 CS for the Immortal and it was a psychological thing.

Feels like a Thermopylae thing.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Is that when playing as Gorgo?

Yeah.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Yeah.

Those Spartan Hoplites are very extra, the way it should be.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Also, from Potato's Livestream, I just learned that Japan in the Huge Earth Map got thrown into a compacter.

 

[Menocchio]

Also, the game builds the map and then assigns start positions, crucially. A "start bias" also does not mean "will start on/adjacent to X tile" but "will start within 2 tiles of" its start bias tile type. You can see the end result of this when playing as Russia or Canada, for example, or Mali, and find yourself with a single tundra or desert tile nearby but nothing else. Technically, this fulfills the start bias requirement. Biases for mountains and geothermal fissures are better, because geothermal fissures always indicate a continental boundary and mountains - with exceptions for some weird map scripts - are almost always in groups and often demarcate continental boundaries. This was one of pre-buff Mapuche's keys to some success, owing to their mountain start bias.

Conflicting start biases also affect starting positions, if I understand it correctly: if two civilisations have a start bias for coast - one with a tier 1 bias and one with a tier 2 - and for some reason there is only one coastal tile available, the coast tile will go to the civilisation with the tier 1 bias.

 

[kryat]

The problem is that it depends on the AI conquering a city which isn't guaranteed, especially at lower difficulties.

As an unabashed Scotland lover, I can't agree with this. The bonus is way too difficult to trigger because it is not uncommon for the AI to rarely (or never) capture cities from one another. I've had entire games pass where I have not had a single opportunity to use it. Also, when you can use it, it creates a perverse incentive to declare a war of liberation but not actually liberate the city (since then after 10 turns you can make peace, wait 10 turns, and do it again). So it's either unused or abused.

The ability is great, and the design is certainly fun! The problem isn't the ability itself, the problem is that there's no such thing as a War of Liberation casus belli in the game, because the conditions are never met. The AI simply doesn't conquer cities, with the only exceptions being really early game, and then a city-state here and there. Clearly that will never change, so the ability is impossible to trigger and it's as inexistent as the casus belli that is supposed to trigger it. For all effects and purposes, Robert the Bruce doesn't have a leader ability.

Every Civ with a similar ability works because you can trigger it reliably enough. Chandragrupta is just a matter of having a city near your enemy, Cyrus can activate it at will, John Curtin can easily chain several activations by going in a CS liberation spree (again, the AI likes to conquer those). Tamar's was pretty unreliable too, but not as much as Robert's, and it got a redesign. Now, Scotland is the only Civ left with that design that was clearly a misfire. I didn't expect them to change it, considering that they didn't say anything in the video/livestream, and they certainly would, since it would be a considerable change that they would want to show off, but it's certainly disappointing to see that Robert lost his possibly last opportunity to actually have an ability.

I have heard this before, and understand this defense, except it doesn’t match what my own experiences in game. I don’t know what’s different about your experiences, but I often see other civs conquering each other. While I understand it’s a little unpredictable, it’s quite common for one civ to lose cities to another through conquest, so I have triggered it in my Scotland games multiple times per game. For this reason, I have always rolled my eyes at people complaining “the AI can’t take cities”, because that’s not true in my games.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Once again, from Potato's Livestream, I found out that the Governor Loyalty Bonus for the Mapuche doesn't stack. Sad, but not the worst news.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Vietnam

• [Vietnam and Kublai Khan Pack] Thành: No longer provides a Great General point.

A pretty big but absolutely deserving nerf. Vietnam outside of the BBG mod is so broken, unkillable before their timing push, and then kill everyone with their timing push.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

A pretty big but absolutely deserving nerf. Vietnam outside of the BBG mode is so broken, unkillable before their timing push, and then kill everyone with their timing push.

I was gonna talk about the Thanh nerf then forgot. Also, I agree with you so much. Doesn't affect Vietnam that much, but makes them less unkillable.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I have heard this before, and understand this defense, except it doesn’t match what my own experiences in game. I don’t know what’s different about your experiences, but I often see other civs conquering each other. While I understand it’s a little unpredictable, it’s quite common for one civ to lose cities to another through conquest, so I have triggered it in my Scotland games multiple times per game. For this reason, I have always rolled my eyes at people complaining “the AI can’t take cities”, because that’s not true in my games.

I've played a couple of games with Scotland and I've never been had a civ conquer cities from my allies or friends, it's my friends conquering my enemies, hence the complaints. It's way too dependent on things that are almost entirely out of the players' hands.

 

[Melkus]

Did a small AI Battle Royale with some NFP modes, default map settings on Continents, to check possible AI improvements:

- luxury improvements in Corp Mode still very broken, but lots of farms and unique improvements (not sure if more than before)
- still no effort to reconquer free cities in dramatic ages
- almost no AI civ ships, plenty for barbs and coastal city states (didn't roll a lot of maritime civs though), but the Dutch dominated a two tile lake with 2 battleships... (this was supposed to be fixed)
- camps indeed keep spawning longer, which led to major problems for the AI when those late camps spawned line infantry or voi chiens and wrecked armies
- relatively slow development overall (map conditions looked normal, but the more active barbs might be to blame here)
- Khmer cities do indeed grow fast

This was not an especially scientific effort, just observing the action a bit - but unimpressed so far.
(I do like the civ reworks and the balance changes - especially that crossbows have been put in a reasonable place.)

 

[fy00sh]

Just got up and read the patch notes, here's my thoughts:

Must be adjacent to a Bonus or Luxury resource not adjacent to another Château.

Oh boy I'm glad they extended this to Bonus resources, but also I really hope this means that the Châteaux can't be adjacent to each other, and not that each luxury or bonus resource can only have one Château adjacent.

Inca Terrace Farm: Now gives +1 Housing (was +0.5).

GOOD!!!!!!!! If they're gonna produce tons of food, they might as well get tons of housing to accompany it.

Pairidaeza: Appeal bonus reduced to +1 (was +2).

Booooooo. Persia IMO is most fun as a Culture civ, and this single change just severely weakened their strategy. Might be a while before I consider playing Persia again.

Isibongo: Buildings in the Ikanda receive +2 Gold and +1 Science.

Ah, so it was the buildings and not the district itself. I like that getter! Also it seems they misspoke during the livestream, cos they definitely said +2 science and +2 gold, but here it's only +1 science. Suppose it's more balanced that way.

Berserker: Combat Strength increased to 48 (was 40). -5 Combat Strength when defending penalty now only applies to melee attacks.

Ok, good, they're finally usable. Now I think they'll actually be a very fun unit to use. ^_^

Samurai: Unlocked with Feudalism (was Military Tactics).

Oooooh, nice. Very thematic and flavorful.

Idle Governors now must be addressed (assigned to a city or by closing the screen) before advancing to the next turn.

THANK YOU. I always hated not being notified when my neutralized Governor was able to be re-slotted.

Fixed an issue where bonus resources would not be removed from a tile after a district is built on it.

So this was a bug and not a feature, it seems. Ah well, I liked it better before but this is probably more balanced.

• "Cultural Domination" term clarified in Culture victory sections of World Rankings and Civilopedia.

• Cultural Domination provides ongoing effects:
  • International Trade Routes to foreign cities you culturally dominate provide +4 Gold.
  • Spy missions in foreign cities you culturally dominate are 50% faster to complete.
  • Your citizens exert 25% more Loyalty pressure on foreign cities you culturally dominate.

YES!!! A way to actually use Tourism that isn't just winning a Culture Victory! Thank you!!!

Industry improvements cannot be built on Luxury Resources that are on Volcanic Soil.

Why tho????? I don't get it. Hoping someone reverses this with a mod.

Sad to see no buffs to Warrior Monks, and no further nerfs to monopoly tourism.

 

[Solovey]

Hmmm.... first try of the TSL Mediterainian Large looks pretty .... empty, flat and sealess.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Also, on the Scout Pet thing, it doesn't work on Cats. It says, and I quote:

"One does not simply pet a cat."

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Yeah, the Samurai starting on a civic rather than a tech is a great change for Japan.

 

[Menocchio]

Also, on the Scout Pet thing, it doesn't work on Cats. It says, and I quote:

"One does not simply pet a cat."

Inaccurate!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I have heard this before, and understand this defense, except it doesn’t match what my own experiences in game. I don’t know what’s different about your experiences, but I often see other civs conquering each other. While I understand it’s a little unpredictable, it’s quite common for one civ to lose cities to another through conquest, so I have triggered it in my Scotland games multiple times per game. For this reason, I have always rolled my eyes at people complaining “the AI can’t take cities”, because that’s not true in my games.

Like what was said above it also depends on if your friends/allies were conquered, not just any civ. Simply giving them a bonus similar to John Curtin's where you get a bonus for liberating any city would even be a plus than what it currently has.

Hmmm.... first try of the TSL Mediterainian Large looks pretty .... empty, flat and sealess.

Well Hungary certainly doesn't border the Mediterranean so at least the map is somewhat large.