April 2021 Update - Patch Notes Discussion

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Really pleasantly surprised to see that Tourism now has a secondary function to winning the game.W00t. Wonder if it affects non-cultural victory games too. Hope so.

 

[Daigotsu Max]

Why can't they use that resource to improve the game?

I knew it. I knew as soon as Firaxis would include something for fun there would be someone crying foul over how they should spend every minute of every day working on bugs.


Personally I remember the patch toward the end of Civ V having just a handful of balance changes, like giving the Minutemen golden age points. In comparison this is quite hefty, even if I don't agree with everything and had wished for different stuff. But still, very welcome as a free update.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Just a personal opinion of mine. I understand why people like them. Yes, it would have been nice to see them change the awfulness that is Bannockburn (which I had hope for when they removed Tamar’s CB ability).

Yes Bannockburn was the one thing that I did want changed in this update.

 

[schondette]

Saved Game Configurations fix is awesome. Actually usable now.

 

[Kwami]

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the balance changes. Let's actually play some games and see how they feel before complaining about what didn't change and what still needs fixing. And here's hoping for a DLL now that NFP is done!

 

[Earl Grey - hot]

Underrated change of this might be the fact that nearly every class of military unit got across the board CS buffs (even non-uniques) while the only non-unique ranged unit to get buffed was the Machine Gun. Coupled with the addition of the Trebuchet unit (and again, just overall buffed melee, cavalry, siege, etc.) across the board, I'd be interested to see if this plays out with cities being easier to conquer - even for the AI.

 

[sonicmyst]

TSL Huge Earth map does not properly show river names for me.

 

[Luxerne]

On another note, it seems that the extra production from mountains after reaching Industrial era is not part of Pachacuti's Qhapaq Ñan ability, despite what the patch notes say, but of the Incan Mit'a ability, so it should still work with a modded Inca leader.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I knew it. I knew as soon as Firaxis would include something for fun there would be someone crying foul over how they should spend every minute of every day working on bugs.

As someone who basically hasn't been able to finish a game since the Gaul/Byzantium pack because the game is incredibly unstable on consoles, yes, I would like them to fix the problems so I can actually play the game. Don't care about petting a dog if I can't finish a game.

 

[slavaskii]

There were 27 civs, if I counted correctly, that received updates. Weren't there 50 civs to begin with and 2/3 were to be changed? Of them, the best changes are undoubtedly those to the Maya, Spain, Khmer, Canada, and Mapuche, and Georgia. These civs either had issues with their start biases or executing their abilities. The worst changes, to me, are split into two categories: ones that buffed already powerful civs (1) or barely impacted/nerfed mediocre ones (2).

In category 1, we have Korea and Inca. As of yesterday, I was convinced that Australia didn't need the coastal bias guarantee, but for a country like Australia, I can now understand it. Australia's problem was with Citadel of Civilization, anyway. Korea is now receiving extra science based on Seowon placement, which presumably was a bug (?) that should've originally been in the game. Extra science to Korea wasn't expected nor necessary, if the mine bonus wasn't working by design, just readjust the description to reflect this. Regarding Inca, they were already a very tall, production-heavy civ. I'm not sure what giving them more housing bonuses actually accomplished besides making them even stronger. You know what would have been a much better change to Inca? Making it so their UU wasn't a ranger replacement for whatever reason.

In category 2, we have Poland, Scotland, Netherlands, Zulu, and Sumeria. As if yesterday's stream wasn't bad enough, Poland's patch notes don't reflect the changes to the Winged Hussar at all; I suppose this is a mistake, but I'm a bit perplexed about where they went. I could write a whole thesis about why Poland's change is worthless and actually detrimental to them, but I would just encourage anyone who argues that Poland is in a good place to look at the new Khmer and tell me why Poland could ever expect to compete with them. Also, just consider, please, how Poland can actually now aid another civ in getting a religious victory through their culture bombs. On encampments, no less!

Scotland was just ignored for zero reason whatsoever. The community has been abundantly vocal about Scotland needing a change and this has been completely ignored. With amenities and happiness being updated in previous patches, it was only rational Scotland would be adjusted to these new numbers; why haven't they been? You don't need to play for that long to realize there's not many advantages to ecstatic cities, and Scotland's measly bonuses don't encourage the extra effort. Don't even get me started on how their other leader ability just doesn't exist at all.

Quick plug for Netherland's Radio Oranje. I don't mind the new changes. With an average of 15 trade routes, you're gaining 30 guaranteed culture from the ability, and it's worth remembering that culture is hard to come by at the beginning. I think it's still weak like Peter's Grand Embassy, but at least it's not that awful. I would just like to point out Radio Oranje was rated as the worst civ ability by this forum and probably did, therefore, deserve something much more than a simple +1.

Now to Zulu - the Ikanda changes don't erase the fact that Zulu's position in the game has been made much worse through the addition of new units. If you're conquering, gold shouldn't be a problem for the Zulu, but where did the science come from...? +1 isn't much at all. I would be interested in trying this ability out to see if you can do some conquest-science economy, but I just believe Zulu didn't really get what they deserved out of this.

Sumeria is a weird case, but I just don't fundamentally believe their changes were that significant. I'm still uncertain how this stacks (is it theoretically possible for Sumeria to get +20 combat strength against other units? I'm not really sure), but they didn't really address Sumeria's main problems. I think that's my biggest grievance about most of these changes, honestly. Sumeria really struggled because their abilities were lackluster and the civ itself was only good because of the UU and UI. Now, it has another 'bonus' plopped onto the ability, but the fundamental problems of Sumeria haven't really changed. Allies won't engage in much combat, so you're almost never going to get those pillage bonuses. A tribal village bonus from barbarians is so situational and will happen, what, 5 times throughout the game, whereas other civs (like Inca now) will be utilizing theirs all game long? Moreover, the tribal village reward is just a lottery ticket - not consistent at all!

Overall, I'm quite negative about what I've seen here, but mainly because our suggestions just haven't been listened to at all, and it's obvious now. If Scotland was changed, if Radio Oranje received something else, if Poland was just... not absolutely terrible, I would've been happy. But calling this the "biggest community update" was a disgrace when the community through the balance mods have done the changes much better. I'm sorry for my constant pining here lately, but when I instinctively scrolled down to Scotland and saw nothing... that was ridiculous. As I said yesterday, this was rushed and they needed to take another week or two to actually listen to us.

Edit: I completely forgot about Egypt being ignored. Consider them placed in category 2 for the same reason as explained with Scotland.

 

[Daigotsu Max]

As someone who basically hasn't been able to finish a game with the Gaul/Byzantium pack because the game is incredibly unstable on consoles, yes, I would like the fix the problems so I can actually play the game. Don't care about petting a dog if I can't finish a game.

That doesn't make the two issues related.

 

[Vargas1]

I've regularly seen Netherlands be ranked as B or even A tier, so I'm not sure where this comes from. Yes, Radio Oranje might be dull, but Grote Rivieren is an incredibly powerful bonus which consistently allows you to get +3, +4 or even +5 districts very early in the game. With this in mind, I think the adjustment to Radio Oranje is absolutely fine; any more, and people would start complaining that 'tEh dUtCh R oP"

As for Egypt, I personally find them kinda dull. But many people say its their favourite Civ in the game.

Honestly, there are a lot of 'fans' here who need to chill. You get yourselves worked up into a fit of expectation, then you become outraged when Firaxis inevitably fail to meet those expectations. This is a free update. Chill out.

I think Netherlands were (and remain) a strong civ based on their bonus, and to a lesser extent the Polder, but it is disappointing to see the domestic part of Radio Oranje still be effectively useless in all but the rarest circumstances.

For Egypt, I will admit I am personally disappointed primarily because I really like their kit in theory (rivers/floodplains, building wonders/districts faster, faith/culture/appeal/tourism from sphinxes), but in comparison to many other civs they are on the weaker side. I think they are an example of one of the original civs that hasn't kept up with the power creep of later-added civs, so I was hoping for something that was at least a boost to their existing abilities.

 

[pxpdoo]

Scout Action: 'Pet.' (In red: "One does not simply pet a cat.")

 

[Earl Grey - hot]

It seems so.

Sumeria

• [Rise and Fall, Gathering Storm] Adventures of Enkidu: Added +5 Combat Strength to units when they and their ally are at war with a common foe.

I agree, the wording of this seems to imply it works for Sumeria's units and their ally's.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Netherlands

• Radio Oranje: Domestic Trade Routes provide +2 Loyalty (was +1) per turn for the starting city. Trade Routes sent or receive from a foreign civilization grant +2 Culture (was +1) to the Netherlands.

So Netherlands is officially twice as good now!

I don't know what the complaint is here. Netherland's main bonus (and it is huge) is Grote Rivieren. The strength of civs must be compaired holistically, not piecemeal. Do not compare Leader uniques to other Leader uniques.

Loving the change to the Chateau. It finally looks like a proper Unique Improvement.

And wow, I can't believe the Inca got a buff.

 

[João III]

As someone who basically hasn't been able to finish a game with the Gaul/Byzantium pack because the game is incredibly unstable on consoles, yes, I would like the fix the problems so I can actually play the game. Don't care about petting a dog if I can't finish a game.

Agreed, I've had to delete and completely reinstall the game twice

 

[King William I]

As someone who basically hasn't been able to finish a game with the Gaul/Byzantium pack because the game is incredibly unstable on consoles, yes, I would like the fix the problems so I can actually play the game. Don't care about petting a dog if I can't finish a game.

Aspyr does the console ports, not Firaxis and based on my buddy's switch experience they don't seem keen to actually fix any bugs. The main reason I'm worried about the upcoming KOTOR remake

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Is the Malon Raider still a standalone unit? Is it the only one left, if so?

It's not the only one, but it got some mechanical changes. It's cheaper too.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I'm very impressed by the Cultural changes.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Nothing for the Vikings? I am disappoint.

Norway (not Viking! Sheesh. Vikings are an occupation, not a people) got a major boost to Berzerkers. Not only can you prebuild them, but their defensive penalty isn't incurred by ranged attacks now.