Are handguns pointless?

[HighlandWarrior]

handguns are needed. if someone is trying to kill my family i will at least try to kill them first.

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.
---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

i think he is arguing that we should be allowed to have tanks

 

[Nobody]

A hunting knife.

Hes going to Shoot you with a knife??

 

[Norlamand]

Guns are the best. They offer protection and entertainment in times of peace and are an invaluable tool in times of strife.

After a natural disaster if I have a gun but no food and you have a food supply but no gun........I have a food supply. That can be applied to many other supplies and services......

 

[IglooDame]

Guns are the best. They offer protection and entertainment in times of peace and are an invaluable tool in times of strife.

After a natural disaster if I have a gun but no food and you have a food supply but no gun........I have a food supply. That can be applied to many other supplies and services......

"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone.” – Al Capone

 

[nonconformist]

I think that an interesting statistic is that while the assault rate uin the US and UK are near-identical, the murder rate in the US is ludicrously higher.

 

[Tulkas12]

I think that an interesting statistic is that while the assault rate uin the US and UK are near-identical, the murder rate in the US is ludicrously higher.

This is an interesting statistic indeed, one known by basically any Gun Rights guy. I am one, I know, and trust me I do not care. This is a cultural difference, I would rather have the 22k die a year from guns than loose guns. I know it seems absurd, but this is how I, and many others, feel.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

After a natural disaster if I have a gun but no food and you have a food supply but no gun........I have a food supply. That can be applied to many other supplies and services......

I guess you approved of the armed looters in New Orleans after Katrina.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

This is an interesting statistic indeed, one known by basically any Gun Rights guy. I am one, I know, and trust me I do not care. This is a cultural difference, I would rather have the 22k die a year from guns than loose guns. I know it seems absurd, but this is how I, and many others, feel.

id rather lose guns than my heart.

while i support gun ownership, i think the system is flawed.

there has to be some way to curb the deaths and still have guns. if we cant, then guns should go.

guns arent as important as 22,000 people.

 

[warpus]

This is an interesting statistic indeed, one known by basically any Gun Rights guy. I am one, I know, and trust me I do not care. This is a cultural difference, I would rather have the 22k die a year from guns than loose guns. I know it seems absurd, but this is how I, and many others, feel.

The right to bear arms trumps saving 22,000 lives a year?

 

[CaptainF]

If handguns were pointless, they wouldnt be so popular.



Thats only in the movies. In real life, Ninjas get blown away just like anyone else...there are no "Neo" types that can dodge bullets....thats only in the movies.

Lost in translation.

I guess i'm just too flippant for the internet!

 

[Leonel]

Hes going to Shoot you with a knife??

Well criminals are crafty people!

Why? Do YOU know how to shoot with a knife? CRIMINAL?

 

[IglooDame]

id rather lose guns than my heart.

while i support gun ownership, i think the system is flawed.

there has to be some way to curb the deaths and still have guns. if we cant, then guns should go.

guns arent as important as 22,000 people.

Do you know how many lives guns save every year?

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Do you know how many lives guns save every year?

i know that, its just saying that he would rather have 22,000 dead than lose guns is a bit insensitive to me.

thats also why i said i would like the system revamped too to keep guns in the right hands

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Do you know how many lives guns save every year?

Probably nowhere near that many. But then I imagine more lives are lost than saved because of automobiles; we have to look at other factors as well.

 

[Norlamand]

I guess you approved of the armed looters in New Orleans after Katrina.

I don't approve of looters at all, but armed citizens would have dampened the enthusiasm of armed or unarmed looters for entering private property. I pity the looter that tries to loot my house. Even my kids know how to safely operate our firearms. Indeed, my 10 year old is one hell of a shot with his SKS.

 

[Tulkas12]

The right to bear arms trumps saving 22,000 lives a year?

Yes. This is not the only thing that is more important than lives. I know its insenstive, its just a fact to me. . . it is that important. I think education is the key to reduce gun crime, lets focus on fixing that instead ok?

 

[Low Tier Hero]

I think the psychology of guns is what really had the most effect.
With a gun, you merely need to pull the trigger and you get a result, much easier to do than shoot a bow or stab someone when you get angry at them.

That being said, I support gun ownership and the right to bear arms.
I do not own one myself, but I certainly wouldnt take that right from others and can clearly see the benefits of owning one.

 

[batteryacid]

I think that I don´t understand why people have them; some reasons why I think that they are useless:

1) Someone is robbing you:
a) you have a gun: You encounter the thief, he sees your gun,and because you are armed, he is forced to take desparate measures and either tries to shoot you first, or you kill him, in either case a life is lost due to replacable goods which I find should not be necessary, as I value life higher thatn property

b) you don´t have a gun and notice a burglar in your house: You will not go into an unnecessary confrontation (in case of owning a gun you will go into confrontation more likely), you play being either asleep and loose some property which can be replaced (you will even not loose money when you have an insurance)

c) You encounter a burgler in the house and you are unarmed: He sees that you aren´t armed and is not forced to take desparate measures, you will be more likely to try to calm him down - It´s very probable that you get out of this situation alive, as most robbers don´t have the mentality to shoot someone when they are not forced to
BtW: Most robbers are scared away by dogs, and not by guns or even warning devices as many studies demonstrate

2) in case you encounter some psychotic murderer (to some people here: there are less cold blood psychotic murderers around than Hollywood and the Charlten Heston make you believe) or a gun fight in the ghetto (whose importance is also exaggarated by media) : A gun doesn´t improve your chance of survival much, because when he wants to kill someone, it is not likely that you have enough time to react

3) Most people are murdered by people they know (Family, Close Friends, neighbours- you just have to read local newspapers: Father kills wife after quarrel, neighbour killed, Mother kills children and herself; Deadly conflict between friends over some bucks, etc.), which is not surprising since murder is in most cases linked to strong emotions. In this all these cases a gun in the house INCREASES the probability to get murdered or murder, since the psychological barrier to shoot some one is far far lower than the psychological and physical barrier to stab or strangle someone. In many cases without guns in play people survive as the attacker´s strong emotions which overwhelmed him are ebbing after some time and he comes to consciousness again

So I in my opinion: A gun gives you a false feeling of being able to handle above mentioned situations, which is not the case.
Every gun improves the probability that someone is killed, therefore guns should be banned totally. To the people who say that they have the right to defend their property: Isn´t life more valuable than property? And If you are so afraid of being robbed: What about an insurance?

 

[Wolfe Tone]

Isn´t life more valuable than property? And If you are so afraid of being robbed: What about an insurance?

My property is more important than the criminals life. Insurance can't replace everything. Plus the minute you claim of insurance it goes up anyway so your still paying for everything yourself.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

It´s very probable that you get out of this situation alive, as most robbers don´t have the mentality to shoot someone when they are not forced to

Batteryacid, I can tell that you haven't lived in South Africa. There, the criminals have a lot less respect for life, and if they break into a house and find an unarmed houseowner, they will think "shoot him, no witnesses, more convenient".

You're making the (imo) benevolent assumption that if you're not armed, you won't be shot, and the assumption that if you have a gun then the burglar will shoot you. If you could play asleep in scenario 1b), why couldn't you do the same otherwise?

Every gun improves the probability that someone is killed, therefore guns should be banned totally.

I suggest that you put up a large sign on your front lawn reading "THIS HOUSE IS A GUN-FREE ZONE".

I wish the joy of many delightful visitors.

Every gun improves the probability that someone is killed, therefore guns should be banned totally.

This argument is so silly that I'll rebut it a second time: Every invention in history improved the probability that someone would be killed. Knives made it easier to just cut someone's throat instead of having to pummel them to death with sharp rocks. Rope improved the probability that people would die from hanging.

I'd pick apart more of your argument, but I suggest you visit ESR, view some of the links, and understand what statistics there are.