Are underage drinkers "criminals"?

[downtown]

Simple enough question really. Drinking underage is against the law, and sufficiently against the law (in many countries anyway) that you could actually have to go to court, pay a fine, and get something on your "record". It's also a crime that hundreds of thousands of people commit.

Do you think it is appropriate to label these people "criminals", or should that designation be reserved for only more serious crimes? If they are not criminals, what does one have to do to become a criminal?

 

[Narz]

Technically, yeah, So are jaywalkers & people who download copyrighted music.

But last I checked your juvenile criminal record doesn't follow you into adulthood (unless you commit felonies probably).

 

[Abaddon]

You should be able to drink at any age.

 

[SuperJay]

Eddie, are you okay? Are you okay, Eddie??

 

[MobBoss]

Simple enough question really. Drinking underage is against the law, and sufficiently against the law (in many countries anyway) that you could actually have to go to court, pay a fine, and get something on your "record". It's also a crime that hundreds of thousands of people commit.

Do you think it is appropriate to label these people "criminals", or should that designation be reserved for only more serious crimes? If they are not criminals, what does one have to do to become a criminal?

I guess it depends on what your definition of 'criminal' is.

I'm not sure those that get convicted of such misdemeanors are really 'criminals' in the common use of the word. The label is usually reserved for someone convicted of more serious crimes and felonies.

So you have misdemeanors, gross misdemeanors, and felonies. Speaking generally, misdemeanors are usually settled with fines, gross misdemeanors fines and/or jailtime of sometimes up to 30 days, and felonies which can have prison sentences of many years.

I dont think it really accurate to define someone with the occasional misdemeanor as a 'criminal'.

In fact, in past discussions on marijuana isnt the term 'de-criminalize' used for states that have made marijuana possession a simple misdemeanor with only a fine? With that as our example, I think it would indicate that those convicted of felonies are criminals, and the rest of us....not so much.

EDIT: and concerning the thread poll. I think minor in possession still a serious law although it is only a misdemeanor. Drinking is and should be considered serious and adult behavior for the simple reason of how many people get killed each year doing it - especially young people.

 

[downtown]

I guess it depends on what your definition of 'criminal' is.

Well...yes. That's the point of the thread

I'm not sure those that get convicted of such misdemeanors are really 'criminals' in the common use of the word. The label is usually reserved for someone convicted of more serious crimes and felonies.

So you have misdemeanors, gross misdemeanors, and felonies. Speaking generally, misdemeanors are usually settled with fines, gross misdemeanors fines and/or jailtime of sometimes up to 30 days, and felonies which can have prison sentences of many years.

I dont think it really accurate to define someone with the occasional misdemeanor as a 'criminal'.

In fact, in past discussions on marijuana isnt the term 'de-criminalize' used for states that have made marijuana possession a simple misdemeanor with only a fine? With that as our example, I think it would indicate that those convicted of felonies are criminals, and the rest of us....not so much.

I agree, btw.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I think making people wait 3 more years after they legally become adults, and can even die for their country, is the real crime. And so is persecuting people for the rest of their lives based on such ludicrous crimes as doing recreational drugs.

But that's the way the criminal justice system works these days. Identify the miscreants as early as possible no matter how flimsy the excuse, and get them off the streets as soon as possible, even if they have to manufacture evidence or otherwise suborn justice do so. Do the police consider their criminal records to be wiped clean after they become adults? I think not...

People even call undocumented immigrants who have never even been arrested "criminals". It is a moniker placed on any undesirable these days.

 

[Abaddon]

Why have an age limit to drinking at all?

I can understand a driving limit, and perhaps a time limit (no drinking in school for example!) but why the blanket ban until some magical length of time since birth?

 

[SuperJay]

For a serious response - I don't think committing a crime one time makes you a criminal any more than cooking one meal makes you a chef or drawing a picture makes you an artist.

If so, then technically we are all criminals - I'm sure almost everyone here has violated a minor law at one point or another, like Narz's example of jaywalking. Most of us who can drive have violated the speed limit, technically we're criminals for that.

But in the case of underage drinking, it CAN be pretty serious. I don't feel it's important to label teens "criminals" for doing so; it's much more important to make sure they don't cause harm to themselves or others by drinking alcohol.

 

[Bill3000]

Why have an age limit to drinking at all?

I can understand a driving limit, and perhaps a time limit (no drinking in school for example!) but why the blanket ban until some magical length of time since birth?

Because children are irresponsible with alcohol and it would significantly impair development? Actually with how irresponsible you brits are with it should probably just be banned wholesale there.

 

[Abaddon]

Because children are irresponsible with alcohol and it would significantly impair development? Actually with how irresponsible you brits are with it should probably just be banned wholesale there.

Children are irresponsible with a pot of paint..
Children are irresponsible with a water sprinkler..
Children are irresponsible with a rope swing..

An for a child to drink enough to significantly impair development? You are picking a silly extreme. I doubt if alcohol was made legal you would get this occouring all but in some very extreme cases.

To simply pick a date where you are now classes as "responsible" enough to drink the stuff.. seems really vague and clutching out in the dark IMO.

 

[Agent 1337]

No, of course not.

 

[Agent 1337]

Because children are irresponsible with alcohol and it would significantly impair development? Actually with how irresponsible you brits are with it should probably just be banned wholesale there.

I don't think OP is referring to children. I think he's referring to teenagers and adults who aren't 21 yet, since you won't see a 12 year old or younger doing drugs or alcohol, that's something teenagers and adults do.

 

[Bill3000]

I don't think OP is referring to children. I think he's referring to teenagers and adults who aren't 21 yet, since you won't see a 12 year old or younger doing drugs or alcohol, that's something teenagers and adults do.

People under the age of 18 are children, and Abaddon (who I was replying to) is from England. Also, you certainly do see 12 year olds doing drugs, alcohol, and smoke.

Children are irresponsible with a pot of paint..
Children are irresponsible with a water sprinkler..
Children are irresponsible with a rope swing..

An for a child to drink enough to significantly impair development? You are picking a silly extreme. I doubt if alcohol was made legal you would get this occouring all but in some very extreme cases.

To simply pick a date where you are now classes as "responsible" enough to drink the stuff.. seems really vague and clutching out in the dark IMO.

It's actually irrelevant. Children shouldn't be drinking alcohol, period, much like how they shouldn't be smoking or putting anything in which harms their body. And considering that irresponsible use can very easily lead to death, unlike your irrelevant examples, this is why this is so.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I don't know about the nuances of the english language and America's criminal justice system in this regard, but don't you guys have distionctions for felonies, offenses, misdemeanors and crimes and what not ?
The common German translation for crime is Verbrechen, but strictly speaking the term "Verbrechen" only applies to aggravated assault or worse.
Underage drinking is against the law, but calling the delinquents criminals is over the top.

 

[Yeekim]

Children are irresponsible with a pot of paint..
Children are irresponsible with a water sprinkler..
Children are irresponsible with a rope swing..

An for a child to drink enough to significantly impair development? You are picking a silly extreme. I doubt if alcohol was made legal you would get this occouring all but in some very extreme cases.

To simply pick a date where you are now classes as "responsible" enough to drink the stuff.. seems really vague and clutching out in the dark IMO.

It is not just magically becoming "responsible" enough at some rather arbitrary date. It simply is so that alcohol consumed during pre-teen and teen age does have much more detrimental effect on one's health and general development than when it is consumed in adulthood.

I don't think OP is referring to children. I think he's referring to teenagers and adults who aren't 21 yet, since you won't see a 12 year old or younger doing drugs or alcohol, that's something teenagers and adults do.

You must have been hiding under a really big rock...

 

[MobBoss]

I think making people wait 3 more years after they legally become adults, and can even die for their country, is the real crime. And so is persecuting people for the rest of their lives based on such ludicrous crimes as doing recreational drugs.

But that's the way the criminal justice system works these days. Identify the miscreants as early as possible no matter how flimsy the excuse, and get them off the streets as soon as possible, even if they have to manufacture evidence or otherwise suborn justice do so. Do the police consider their criminal records to be wiped clean after they become adults? I think not...

People even call undocumented immigrants who have never even been arrested "criminals". It is a moniker placed on any undesirable these days.

Well, for starters, alcohol is a drug that alters behavior, mood and thinking. Being able to enlist in the military, or being able to vote does neither. Also, its just a simple face that even at 18, 19 and 20, ones brain still has not finished developing. I can see where an 18 year old would have the cognitive ability to make a decision to vote or enlist in the military and still lack the wisdom or self-control to limit their alcohol consumption to an effective degree. Young people also tend to take greater risks in their behavior simply because they havent learned not to do so yet. That makes alcohol consumption even that more dangerous for them.

Why have an age limit to drinking at all?

I can understand a driving limit, and perhaps a time limit (no drinking in school for example!) but why the blanket ban until some magical length of time since birth?

Because its the responsible sociatal thing to do. I see no wisdom what-so-ever in allowing a 10 year old to drink themselves silly....do you?

 

[Abaddon]

And considering that irresponsible use can very easily lead to death, unlike your irrelevant examples, this is why this is so.

What is so specially about moving past your 18th birthday that suddenly means this is no longer a problem?

 

[Bill3000]

What is so specially about moving past your 18th birthday that suddenly means this is no longer a problem?

This is why America's age is 21.

 

[Formaldehyde]

When I was growing up, a number of parents allowed their teenage kids to drink at home on special occasions. Imagine my surprise one night finding my high school girlfriend in her pajamas completely soused when I went over to her place. A strong majority openly drank at the high school prom.

MADD and draconian criminal laws changed all that. Parents who act that way today frequently end up arrested and in the news. Teenagers probably still drink at proms, but they have to be much more discrete about it.