Are we at CFC Intellectuals?

[Gogf]

You can say that but under your definition stephen Hawking without his speech machine wouldn't be an intellectual and so frankly would most people. If you want to rewrite the definition fine? Whatever just don't expect it to be acknowledged by me.

xpost.

How can we judge if someone is an intellectual if we can't understand them?

 

[Sidhe]

Two points. One. You publicly asked for an opinion and you got one with no detestable language in it at all. Two. I have not called you an idiot or thick or any other such name in this thread, so please dont malign me by saying I did. Again, if you dont wish to hear the opinion of others on why we might not think you an intellectual, then why ask?



How is it discrimination? Please explain.



I dont think most people here are intellectual at all, and have in fact laid no claim to such a label. Respectfully, I think a lot of people here are ignorant of certain topics they try to appear intellectual on, but they are hardly idiots.



Are you asking for my definition or the text book definition?

The definition is the definition, since when can people just completely redifine words on a whim. You were insulting and rude, and discriminatory, you know I don't spell well, it's like mocking a cripple, kindly refrain from flinging insults around, I asked why under the definition I wasn't and so far I've seen no reason to say that I'm not. I read philsophy, I'm studying physics to a degree level. I am well read on culture and history. I persue dialogue in intelectual forums including this one? Why am I not an intelectual? Hell I even like discussing philosophy with my friends in bars, I'm practically Rene Descartes

How can we judge if someone is an intellectual if we can't understand them?

Are you saying you can't understand me?

Look I didn't write the definition but just making up extra categories and slotting them in is sophistry at its finest.

 

[Gogf]

The definition is the definition, since when can people just completely redefine words on a whim.

Since Noah Webster.

You were insulting and rude, and discriminatory, you know I don't spell well, it's like mocking a cripple, kindly refrain from flinging insults around, I asked why under the definition I wasn't and so far I've seen no reason to say that I'm not.

It's not discriminatory to say that you're not an intellectual because you can't write clearly. It's not very nice either, but it's certainly no discriminatory.

I read philsophy I'm studying physics to a degree level. I am well read on culture and history. I persue dialogue in intelectual forums? Why am I not an intelectual?

CFC is not an "intellectual forum." I also don't see why reading philosophy, studying physics, or reading about culture or history makes you an intellectual. It makes you interested in the world.

 

[Atlas14]

How can we judge if someone is an intellectual if we can't understand them?

By their actions. I don't have to hear Eli Whitney clearly express and explain to me how he invented electricity for me to legitimately deem him an intellectual.

 

[MobBoss]

The definition is the definition, since when can people just completely redefine words on a whim. You were insulting and rude, and discriminatory, you know I don't spell well, it's like mocking a cripple, kindly refrain from flinging insults around, I asked why under the definition I wasn't and so far I've seen no reason to say that I'm not. I read philsophy I'm studying physics to a degree level. I am well read on culture and history. I persue dialogue in intelectual forums? Why am I not an intelectual?

Again, you ask a question in which you know you would not like the answer. So why do you ask?

And why is it insulting and rude to point out irony?

And how is me not thinking you an intellectual discriminatory against cripples? I think cripples can be intellectuals just fine. I personally do not regard you as crippled at all for what its worth.

And as Eran asked....why does it upset you so that someone would consider you average?

 

[Gogf]

By their actions. I don't have to hear Eli Whitney clearly express and explain to me how he invented electricity for me to legitimately deem him an intellectual.

That's true, but I was referring to forum members. By and large, we don't know about any intellectual accomplishments being made by forum members.

 

[brennan]

Why without his chair? He clearly has the mental capability to express himself, he just needs some physical assistance with it.

It's more than a little physical assistance.

I think you are trying to place constraints on the label that should not be there. 'Intellectual' is a word in the English Language with a meaning, if you are going to use it, stick to the meaning or language loses it's purpose.

All 'intellectual' really means is a person who is interested in matters of the intellect. Many members here show such an interest when they post and to try to scoff that they are not 'intellectual' unless they can show themselves to be part of an elite is to do them a dis-service.

 

[Sidhe]

Again, you ask a question in which you know you would not like the answer. So why do you ask?

And why is it insulting and rude to point out irony?

And how is me not thinking you an intellectual discriminatory against cripples? I think cripples can be intellectuals just fine. I personally do not regard you as crippled at all for what its worth.

And as Eran asked....why does it upset you so that someone would consider you average?

Why do you consider me average? Is it because I can't spell or is it because we've had arguments before and you think me illogical or just that you dislike me personally? Show me where I've made an illogical argument in the last week? Other than being ironic? In other words what are you basing this on the fact I can't spell very well because of my dyslexia, your own personal bias or considered crticism? I'm annoyed more by Fifty than by you and I reported him as well because he was being a bit of a bigot, indulging in intelectually facile argument and "intelectual" snobbery.

But declaring yourself an intellectual despite what anyone (in fact, probably everyone) may think smacks of arrogance and an over-estimation of your abilities.

This in particular annoys me, so fifty is the arbiter of what everyone thinks now too? Arrogance basically.

 

[Gogf]

It's more than a little physical assistance.

I think you are trying to place constraints on the label that should not be there. 'Intellectual' is a word in the English Language with a meaning, if you are going to use it, stick to the meaning or language loses it's purpose.

All 'intellectual' really means is a person who is interested in matters of the intellect. Many members here show such an interest when they post and to try to scoff that they are not 'intellectual' unless they can show themselves to be part of an elite is to do them a dis-service.

I'm not trying to scoff at anybody. But let me rephrase my definition in light of your example involving Mr. Hawking .

I think that having the mental capability to clearly express yourself in your native tongue is an important part of being an intellectual.

 

[Atlas14]

That's true, but I was referring to forum members. By and large, we don't know about any intellectual accomplishments being made by forum members.

Well exactly, on a forum it is very hard to determine whether someone is genuinely an intellectual. It seems this thread is using the definition of genius for intellectual, and my reply would be that it is even more difficult to determine if someone is a genius on this forum.

 

[Gogf]

Why do you consider me average? Is it because I can't spell or is it because we've had arguments before and you think me illogical or just that you dislike me personally? Show me where I've made an illogical argument in the last week? Other than being ironic? In other words what are you basing this on the fact I can't spell very well because of my dyslexia, your own personal bias or considered crticism?

Because he doesn't consider you above average. The assumption is that most people are average. The onus is on you to prove that you are above it. I don't think that you have convinced MobBoss.

 

[Sidhe]

Because he doesn't consider you above average. The assumption is that most people are average. The onus is on you to prove that you are above it. I don't think that you have convinced MobBoss.

No but then I'm wondering if this is his own bias and since he's made the accusation it's up to him to justify it.

I'm fine with being labled average, but by Mob Boss or fifty I take it with a pinch of salt, and understandably so.

Well exactly, on a forum it is very hard to determine whether someone is genuinely an intellectual. It seems this thread is using the definition of genius for intellectual, and my reply would be that it is even more difficult to determine if someone is a genius on this forum.

Just to make it clear the label intelectual has nothing to do with genius.

a is not equal to b
and b is not equal to a

Let's clarify that the dictionary definition is what we should be discussing, not what personal opinion is unless the author of the original post wants to claim that is in fact what he meant, in which case no there aren't may if any geniuses here, as genius is defined by what you do not your intelect, good example Richard Feynman IQ 120, well below genius level IQ(whatever the hell that means) But one of the most well respected physisists of the 20th century and believe me he's in a pretty tightly packed field.

I think the IQ measurment has done more to destroy the meaning of genius than anything else in the 20th century.

 

[brennan]

It seems this thread is using the definition of genius for intellectual,

Quite. And 'genius capable of communicating well' at that.

 

[MobBoss]

Why do you consider me average? Is it because I can't spell or is it because we've had arguments before and you think me illogical or just that you dislike me personally?

I dont dislike people for merely being average. What would be the point?

Show me where I've made an illogical argument in the last week? Other than being ironic? In other words what are you basing this on the fact I can't spell very well because of my dyslexia, your own personal bias or considered crticism?

I could care less about your claim to dyslexia. I think you average because you show average intelligence and ability in your posts and debate skills. While you may not agree, I think most of the regulars here more than able to defeat you in logical debate. Why? Because you tend to take opposition to your premise personally just like you have alleged of me here, and thus you let emotion and not logic rule your arguement.

Even by the definition you provided, someone who argues from emotion is not an intellectual.

This in particular annoys me, so fifty is the arbiter of what everyone thinks now too? Arrogance basically.

You dont consider directly comparing yourself to Rene Descartes arrogant? I would.

 

[Gogf]

No but then I'm wondering if this is his own bias and since he's made the accusation it's up to him to justify it.

And I would think that the onus is on you to show that you're NOT average.

 

[Sidhe]

And I would think that the onus is on you to show that you're NOT average.

Well I have an IQ over 140 in fact a fair bit over and not on some internet site either, a proper test, had one when young becuase I was skipped ahead a year at the age of 6 and 9, does that mean I'm average?

Actually it probably means nothing, as I treat that with the contempt it deserves, I'm talking about average intelectually? If he means average intelectual I couldn't agree more

gen·ius /ˈdʒinyəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jeen-yuhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural gen·ius·es for 2, 3, 8, gen·i·i /ˈdʒiniˌaɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jee-nee-ahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation for 6, 7, 9.
1. an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart.
2. a person having such capacity.
3. a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an IQ above 140.
4. natural ability or capacity; strong inclination: a special genius for leadership.
5. distinctive character or spirit, as of a nation, period, or language.
6. the guardian spirit of a place, institution, etc.
7. either of two mutually opposed spirits, one good and the other evil, supposed to attend a person throughout life.
8. a person who strongly influences for good or ill the character, conduct, or destiny of a person, place, or thing: Rasputin, the evil genius of Russian politics.
9. genie (defs. 1, 3).

I qaullify by Atlas's definition

 

[Sidhe]

I dont dislike people for merely being average. What would be the point?



I could care less about your claim to dyslexia. I think you average because you show average intelligence and ability in your posts and debate skills. While you may not agree, I think most of the regulars here more than able to defeat you in logical debate. Why? Because you tend to take opposition to your premise personally just like you have alleged of me here, and thus you let emotion and not logic rule your arguement.

yes but since your not exactly good at winning arguments that makes you distinctly average also, although you claim you are, if we're being honest your perhaps one of the worst resorters to logical fallacy I've ever seen, you can barely go a page without sying somthing that's alogical fallacy, and then you never answer questions that disprove your case, so in all honesty if I'm average your less than average at least IMO, do you think there's any bias in what I say?

Even by the definition you provided, someone who argues from emotion is not an intellectual.



You dont consider directly comparing yourself to Rene Descartes arrogant? I would.

No it doesn't mean that an intelectual is someone who uses rreason rather than emotion to explore the world? Ie not of an artistic but intelectual bent; Please, stop trying to rewrite definitions the definiton of an intelectual is point 7, I qualify in every category, just say OK I'm wrong and we'll leave it at that and then we can stop resorting to making biased judegments about each other to prove our intelectual averageness, again show me where in the last wekk I've resorted to emotion, not that that isn't a valid means of debate as you should well know, it may be somewhat of a logical fallacy, but it certainly is a strong means to sway opinion? Cmon show me where I've been illogical or particularly resorted to emotion to prove a point this week?

7. a person who places a high value on or pursues things of interest to the intellect or the more complex forms and fields of knowledge, as aesthetic or philosophical matters, esp. on an abstract and general level.

 

[MobBoss]

Well I have an IQ over 140 in fact a fair bit over and not on some internet site either, a proper test, had one when young becuase I was skipped ahead a year at the age of 6 and 9, does that mean I'm average?

Actually it probably means nothing, as I treat that with the contempt it deserves, I'm talking about average intelectually? If he means average intelectual I couldn't agree more

gen·ius /ˈdʒinyəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jeen-yuhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural gen·ius·es for 2, 3, 8, gen·i·i /ˈdʒiniˌaɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jee-nee-ahy] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation for 6, 7, 9.
1. an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart.
2. a person having such capacity.
3. a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an IQ above 140.
4. natural ability or capacity; strong inclination: a special genius for leadership.
5. distinctive character or spirit, as of a nation, period, or language.
6. the guardian spirit of a place, institution, etc.
7. either of two mutually opposed spirits, one good and the other evil, supposed to attend a person throughout life.
8. a person who strongly influences for good or ill the character, conduct, or destiny of a person, place, or thing: Rasputin, the evil genius of Russian politics.
9. genie (defs. 1, 3).

I qaullify by Atlas's definition

To be clear, no, I do not mean 'average intellectual'. I mean average 'cfc poster'.

And your claim to be of genius level intellect is all well and good. However, as fifty stated, all I have to go on is what you have posted in debate here at CFC. People can claim anything over the net. And ss you havent shown any particular 'genius' anymore than most of the average posters here at CFC have on any particular topic, I thus believe you to be 'average' just like most of the posters here are average.

You want to be insulted by that? /shrug.

 

[Sidhe]

To be clear, no, I do not mean 'average intellectual'. I mean average 'cfc poster'.

And your claim to be of genius level intellect is all well and good. However, as fifty stated, all I have to go on is what you have posted in debate here at CFC. People can claim anything over the net. And ss you havent shown any particular 'genius' anymore than most of the average posters here at CFC have on any particular topic, I thus believe you to be 'average' just like most of the posters here are average.

You want to be insulted by that? /shrug.

And all I'm saying is coming from you that means nothing, as you are biased. I'd take average from anyone but you or Fifty, otherwise it's pinch of salt, although fifty has said I'm below average in the term intelectual, whatever that means? So essentially my point is, is your opinion really that valid, is mine of you?

And to be honest whether anyone believes me or not is of little consequence to me, facts is facts, I do not become more stupid because of biased opinion or likewise average because smoeone who has a serious dislike for me says so. If x says it fine, but I'm looking at context here.

 

[Gogf]

And all I'm saying is coming from you that means nothing, as you are biased. I'd take average from anyone but you or Fifty, otherwise it's pinch of salt, although fifty has said I'm below average in the term intelectual, whatever that means? So essentially my point is, is your opinion really that valid, is mine of you?

Well, no offense intended, but I would describe you as average in terms of CFC members. In fact, I think very few people would rise above that characterization for me.