Arguments that don't work

Flying Pig

Utrinque Paratus
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This thread is for arguments which come about a lot in this forum and are wrong; they don't prove anything, in an attempt to stop people using them:


  • Formal fallacies

    Formal fallacies are arguments that are fallacious due to an error in their form or technical structure. All formal fallacies are specific types of non sequiturs.

    Ad Hominem: an argument that attacks the person who holds a view or advances an argument, rather than commenting on the view or responding to the argument.
    Appeal to probability: assumes that because something could happen, it is inevitable that it will happen. This is the premise on which Murphy's Law is based.
    Argument from fallacy: if an argument for some conclusion is fallacious, then the conclusion could be false.
    Bare assertion fallacy: premise in an argument is assumed to be true purely because it says that it is true.
    Base rate fallacy: using weak evidence to make a probability judgment without taking into account known empirical statistics about the probability.
    Conjunction fallacy: assumption that an outcome simultaneously satisfying multiple conditions is more probable than an outcome satisfying a single one of them.
    Correlative based fallacies
    Denying the correlative: where attempts are made at introducing alternatives where there are none.
    Suppressed correlative: where a correlative is redefined so that one alternative is made impossible.
    Fallacy of necessity: a degree of unwarranted necessity is placed in the conclusion based on the necessity of one or more of its premises.
    False dilemma (false dichotomy): where two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options, when in reality there are several or more.
    If-by-whiskey: An answer that takes side of the questioner's suggestive question.
    Ignoratio elenchi (irrelevant conclusion or irrelevant thesis)
    Homunculus fallacy: where a "middle-man" is used for explanation, this usually leads to regressive middle-man. Explanations without actually explaining the real nature of a function or a process.
    Masked man fallacy: the substitution of identical designators in a true statement can lead to a false one.
    Naturalistic fallacy: a fallacy that claims that if something is natural, then it is "good" or "right".
    Nirvana fallacy: when solutions to problems are said not to be right because they are not perfect.
    Negative Proof fallacy: that, because a premise cannot be proven false, the premise must be true; or that, because a premise cannot be proven true, the premise must be false.
    Package-deal fallacy: consists of assuming that things often grouped together by tradition or culture must always be grouped that way
    Red Herring: also called a "fallacy of relevance." This occurs when the speaker is trying to distract the audience by arguing some new topic, or just generally going off topic with an argument.

    Propositional fallacies

    Affirming a disjunct: concluded that one logical disjunction must be false because the other disjunct is true.
    Affirming the consequent: the antecedent in an indicative conditional is claimed to be true because the consequent is true; if A, then B; B, therefore A.
    Denying the antecedent: the consequent in an indicative conditional is claimed to be false because the antecedent is false; if A, then B; not A, therefore not B.

    Quantificational fallacies


    Existential fallacy: an argument has two universal premises and a particular conclusion, but the premises do not establish the truth of the conclusion.
    Proof by example: where things are proven by giving an example.

    Formal syllogistic fallacies
    Syllogistic fallacies are logical fallacies that occur in syllogisms.

    Affirmative conclusion from a negative premise: when a categorical syllogism has a positive conclusion, but at least one negative premise
    Fallacy of exclusive premises: a categorical syllogism that is invalid because both of its premises are negative.
    Fallacy of four terms: a categorical syllogism has four terms.
    Illicit major: a categorical syllogism that is invalid because its major term is undistributed in the major premise but distributed in the conclusion.
    Fallacy of the undistributed middle: the middle term in a categorical syllogism is not distributed.

    Informal fallacies
    Informal fallacies are arguments that are fallacious for reasons other than structural ("formal") flaws.

    Argument from repetition (argumentum ad nauseam): signifies that it has been discussed extensively (possibly by different people) until nobody cares to discuss it anymore
    Appeal to ridicule: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument is made by presenting the opponent's argument in a way that makes it appear ridiculous
    Argument from ignorance ("appeal to ignorance"): The fallacy of assuming that something is true/false because it has not been proven false/true. For example: "The student has failed to prove that he didn't cheat on the test, therefore he must have cheated on the test."
    Begging the question ("petitio principii"): where the conclusion of an argument is implicitly or explicitly assumed in one of the premises
    Burden of proof: refers to the extent to which, or the level of rigour with which, it is necessary to establish, demonstrate or prove something for it to be accepted as true or reasonable to believe
    Circular cause and consequence: where the consequence of the phenomenon is claimed to be its root cause
    Continuum fallacy (fallacy of the beard): appears to demonstrate that two states or conditions cannot be considered distinct (or do not exist at all) because between them there exists a continuum of states. According to the fallacy, differences in quality cannot result from differences in quantity.
    Correlation does not imply causation (cum hoc ergo propter hoc): a phrase used in the sciences and the statistics to emphasize that correlation between two variables does not imply that one causes the other
    Equivocation (No true Scotsman): the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning (by glossing over which meaning is intended at a particular time)
    Fallacies of distribution
    Division: where one reasons logically that something true of a thing must also be true of all or some of its parts
    Ecological fallacy: inferences about the nature of specific individuals are based solely upon aggregate statistics collected for the group to which those individuals belong
    Fallacy of many questions (complex question, fallacy of presupposition, loaded question, plurium interrogationum): someone asks a question that presupposes something that has not been proven or accepted by all the people involved. This fallacy is often used rhetorically, so that the question limits direct replies to those that serve the questioner's agenda.
    Fallacy of the single cause ("joint effect", or "causal oversimplification"): occurs when it is assumed that there is one, simple cause of an outcome when in reality it may have been caused by a number of only jointly sufficient causes.
    Historian's fallacy: occurs when one assumes that decision makers of the past viewed events from the same perspective and having the same information as those subsequently analyzing the decision. It is not to be confused with presentism, a mode of historical analysis in which present-day ideas (such as moral standards) are projected into the past.
    False attribution: occurs when an advocate appeals to an irrelevant, unqualified, unidentified, biased or fabricated source in support of an argument
    contextomy (Fallacy of quoting out of context): refers to the selective excerpting of words from their original linguistic context in a way that distorts the source’s intended meaning
    False compromise/middle ground: asserts that a compromise between two positions is correct
    Gambler's fallacy: the incorrect belief that the likelihood of a random event can be affected by or predicted from other, independent events
    Incomplete comparison: where not enough information is provided to make a complete comparison
    Inconsistent comparison: where different methods of comparison are used, leaving one with a false impression of the whole comparison
    Intentional fallacy: addresses the assumption that the meaning intended by the author of a literary work is of primary importance
    Loki's Wager: the unreasonable insistence that a concept cannot be defined, and therefore cannot be discussed.
    Moving the goalpost (raising the bar): argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded
    Perfect solution fallacy: where an argument assumes that a perfect solution exists and/or that a solution should be rejected because some part of the problem would still exist after it was implemented
    Post hoc ergo propter hoc: also known as false cause, coincidental correlation or correlation not causation.
    Proof by verbosity (argumentum verbosium)
    Prosecutor's fallacy: a low probability of false matches does not mean a low probability of some false match being found
    Psychologist's fallacy: occurs when an observer presupposes the objectivity of his own perspective when analyzing a behavioral event
    Regression fallacy: ascribes cause where none exists. The flaw is failing to account for natural fluctuations. It is frequently a special kind of the post hoc fallacy.
    Reification (hypostatization): a fallacy of ambiguity, when an abstraction (abstract belief or hypothetical construct) is treated as if it were a concrete, real event or physical entity. In other words, it is the error of treating as a "real thing" something which is not a real thing, but merely an idea.
    Retrospective determinism (it happened so it was bound to)
    Special pleading: where a proponent of a position attempts to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule or principle without justifying the exemption
    Suppressed correlative: an argument which tries to redefine a correlative (two mutually exclusive options) so that one alternative encompasses the other, thus making one alternative impossible
    Wrong direction: where cause and effect are reversed. The cause is said to be the effect and vice versa.

    Faulty generalizations

    Accident (fallacy): when an exception to the generalization is ignored or to use an amazingly unlikely situation to prove/disprove a general rule
    Cherry picking: act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position
    Composition: where one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some (or even every) part of the whole
    Converse accident (a dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter): when an exception to a generalization is wrongly called for
    False analogy: false analogy consists of an error in the substance of an argument (the content of the analogy itself), not an error in the logical structure of the argument
    Hasty generalization (fallacy of insufficient statistics, fallacy of insufficient sample, fallacy of the lonely fact, leaping to a conclusion, hasty induction, secundum quid)
    Loki's Wager: insistence that because a concept cannot be clearly defined, it cannot be discussed
    Misleading vividness: involves describing an occurrence in vivid detail, even if it is an exceptional occurrence, to convince someone that it is a problem
    Overwhelming exception (hasty generalization): It is a generalization which is accurate, but comes with one or more qualifications which eliminate so many cases that what remains is much less impressive than the initial statement might have led one to assume
    Spotlight fallacy: when a person uncritically assumes that all members or cases of a certain class or type are like those that receive the most attention or coverage in the media
    Thought-terminating cliché: a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance.

    Red herring fallacies

    A red herring is an argument, given in response to another argument, which does not address the original issue. See also irrelevant conclusion

    Ad hominem: attacking the personal instead of the argument. A form of this is reductio ad Hitlerum.
    Argumentum ad baculum ("appeal to force", "appeal to the stick"): where an argument is made through coercion or threats of force towards an opposing party
    Argumentum ad populum ("appeal to belief", "appeal to the majority", "appeal to the people"): where a proposition is claimed to be true solely because many people believe it to be true
    Association fallacy (guilt by association)
    Appeal to authority: where an assertion is deemed true because of the position or authority of the person asserting it
    Appeal to consequences: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument concludes a premise is either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences for a particular party
    Appeal to emotion: where an argument is made due to the manipulation of emotions, rather than the use of valid reasoning
    Appeal to fear: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument is made by increasing fear and prejudice towards the opposing side
    Wishful thinking: a specific type of appeal to emotion where a decision is made according to what might be pleasing to imagine, rather than according to evidence or reason
    Appeal to spite: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument is made through exploiting people's bitterness or spite towards an opposing party
    Appeal to flattery: a specific type of appeal to emotion where an argument is made due to the use of flattery to gather support
    Appeal to motive: where a premise is dismissed, by calling into question the motives of its proposer
    Appeal to novelty: where a proposal is claimed to be superior or better solely because it is new or modern
    Appeal to poverty (argumentum ad lazarum): thinking a conclusion is correct because the speaker is financially poor or incorrect because the speaker is financially wealthy
    Appeal to wealth (argumentum ad crumenam): concluding that a statement is correct because the speaker is rich or that a statement is incorrect because the speaker is poor
    Argument from silence (argumentum ex silentio): a conclusion based on silence or lack of contrary evidence
    Appeal to tradition: where a thesis is deemed correct on the basis that it has a long-standing tradition behind it
    Chronological snobbery: where a thesis is deemed incorrect because it was commonly held when something else, clearly false, was also commonly held
    Genetic fallacy: where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context.
    Golden Age fallacy: Also known as the Nostalgia fallacy. Where the solution to a particular problem is asserted as a return to the assumed social values or worldview of an earlier "Golden Age"; when said problem is deemed not to have existed, or was less significant than in the present time (and which is typically a historically incorrect assertion).
    Judgmental language: insultive or pejorative language to influence the recipient's judgment
    Poisoning the well: where adverse information about a target is pre-emptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that the target person is about to say
    Sentimental fallacy: it would be more pleasant if; therefore it ought to be; therefore it is
    Straw man argument: based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position
    Style over substance fallacy: occurs when one emphasizes the way in which the argument is presented, while marginalizing (or outright ignoring) the content of the argument
    Texas sharpshooter fallacy: information that has no relationship is interpreted or manipulated until it appears to have meaning
    Two wrongs make a right: occurs when it is assumed that if one wrong is committed, another wrong will cancel it out
    Tu quoque: a Latin term used to mean a type of logical fallacy. The argument states that a certain position is false or wrong and/or should be disregarded because its proponent fails to act consistently in accordance with that position

    Conditional or questionable fallacies

    Definist fallacy: involves the confusion between two notions by defining one in terms of the other
    Luddite fallacy: related to the belief that labour-saving technologies increase unemployment by reducing demand for labour
    Slippery slope: argument states that a relatively small first step inevitably leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant impact

    Fallacies that I have seen here - READ THIS BIT GUYS!

    Undermining: refusing to attack someone's argument while trying to undermine it - your argument must be rubbish if you need to quote Wikipedia
    Cross-Threading: A form of the Ad Hominem, but needs rubbing in - I find it unbelievable that you have views like this when you said in this thread that...
    Blaming: Running for cover by claiming that you've been wronged - You're flaming me, I'm leaving or with undermining - You're being so rude because you've run out of arguments - I win

Any more gladly accepted
 
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This might fall under the jurisdiction of the "dumb things people say" thread. Also, this probably isn't going to lessen the extent to which bad arguments are used here so much as invite trolls and flamers :(
 
Hopefully at least one person will read it and think "Oh yeah, that's really stupid!" and then stop being an idiot.
 
[*]"You're an idiot" : Where somebody says 'your views on xyz are iincompatible with this' - the person giving an argument does not affect whether or not it is right

We call that ad hominem here, I think. You're example is kind of... mismatched.

[*]Nazi! : where you say something along the lines of 'that's nazi, how could you say such a thing?'. Hitler probably approved of road safety and loved his mum.

This is called Godwin's Law.
 
Godwin's law says that there will be nazi comparisons in longer threads, the argument is damning something becasue Hitler advocated it.
 
How about the argument from really long post?

;)
 
argumentum ad fallicum idiotum: the fallacy that occurs when a young male thinks he's smarter and/or more logical and/or less prone to commit fallacies by knowing the names of fallacies and pointing out the names of fallacies and other such annoying nonsense.
 
This thread needs to be stickied imo.
 
The title is wrong. Alot of these things may work in a debate.

It depends on the opponent and on the audience. Even a low like an adhominem can crush a vulnerable opponent and may even get the audience on your side.
 
This thread needs to be stickied imo.

I don't see how that is going to help.

The title is wrong. Alot of these things may work in a debate.

It depends on the opponent and on the audience. Even a low like an adhominem can crush a vulnerable opponent and may even get the audience on your side.

That doesn't change the fact that they're bad arguments.
 
argumentum ad fallicum idiotum: the fallacy that occurs when a young male thinks he's smarter and/or more logical and/or less prone to commit fallacies by knowing the names of fallacies and pointing out the names of fallacies and other such annoying nonsense.

Argumentum ad unus postus furtum: The irrational occurrence that is caused by someone posting a joke before you can.
 
The title is wrong. Alot of these things may work in a debate.

It depends on the opponent and on the audience. Even a low like an adhominem can crush a vulnerable opponent and may even get the audience on your side.

Precisely - that's why I said this. They don't actually show anything
 
I really, really doubt that there are a hundred or so arguments (101 instances of ":" in the post) that appear a lot in this forum; for this thread to be more useful than just linking to the Wiki page with the same list, it should a) focus on the most common arguments, so as to have more efficient impact, and b) use examples from the forum with explanations of why they are wrong, so that people understand the relevance.
 
That doesn't change the fact that they're bad arguments.

If it works, it works.
Sometimes fallacies can still win an argument. It's the only way to win an argument when all the facts, all the evidence and all reason points to the other direction. Useful for political animals.

Ofcourse with proper argumentation you stand a much better chance against a smart opponent and won't make you an ass in front of a smart audience.
 
THE point of a discussion is to establish truth, not to win.
That depends. At work, it's to convince people that your idea is the best idea. Then, when it fails, you have to convince people that it failed because of someone or something else. Perhaps you can convince people that if they didn't follow your idea, the situation would have been even worse (god bless ceteris paribus!). Then you get promoted.
 
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