Ask a Dutchman!

[mayor]

You're part of the Dutch royalty?

I was talking about Anandus and me, but now that you ask...

 

[Tahuti]

You're part of the Dutch royalty?

While I'm not Dutch royalty myself, I do have an ancestor in common with Dutch Royalty, being a descendent of Charlemagne.

 

[christos200]

I guess the Netherlands have been lucky in more than one respect...

As hard as it is me for me to accept it, you are right. The Greek State sucks. Why cant Greece become a Modern European State like Netherlands?

Anyway, I have a question?

How do you view:

a) Charlemagne
b) The Holy Roman Empire (Not Charlemagne's. I mean the Empire that started with Otto)

 

[Tahuti]

a) Charlemagne

I remember that according to my elementary school history books, that while he was considered important, he was overshadowed by King Clovis of the Franks.

b) The Holy Roman Empire (Not Charlemagne's. I mean the Empire that started with Otto)

Most Dutch people are hardly aware of its past existence. The history schoolbooks I remember referred to the HRE as 'Germany', except when the Holy Roman Emperor was in personal union with Habsburg Spain, in case of which it was referred to as the 'Spanish Empire' (awful history, I know). The Holy Roman Empire did actually play a pivotal part in Dutch history when the treaty of Westphalia was concluded in 1648, which formally recognised the secession of the Dutch provinces from the Holy Roman Empire.

 

[christos200]

Most Dutch people are hardly aware of its past existence. The history schoolbooks I remember referred to the HRE as 'Germany', except when the Holy Roman Emperor was in personal union with Habsburg Spain, in case of which it was referred to as the 'Spanish Empire' (awful history, I know). The Holy Roman Empire did actually play a pivotal part in Dutch history when the treaty of Westphalia was concluded in 1648, which formally recognised the secession of the Dutch provinces from the Holy Roman Empire.

Really? we in Greece learn first the entire history of the Byzantine Empire (and we have to remember all Emperors) and we have also to learn all western europe history until Luther.

 

[Agent327]

How do you view:

a) Charlemagne

I remember that according to my elementary school history books, that while he was considered important, he was overshadowed by King Clovis of the Franks.

Elementary school is a long, long way back, but I don't remember that at all. But Charlemagne's empire didn't really survive him; he may be overrated, but probably more so in France than in Holland. I do remember the Charlemagne-inspired literature, such as Charles and Elegast (Karel ende Elegast), from high school. And then ofcourse there was the ill-fated mission of Boniface, killed by the recently conquered Frisians.

b) The Holy Roman Empire (Not Charlemagne's. I mean the Empire that started with Otto)

Most Dutch people are hardly aware of its past existence. The history schoolbooks I remember referred to the HRE as 'Germany', except when the Holy Roman Emperor was in personal union with Habsburg Spain, in case of which it was referred to as the 'Spanish Empire' (awful history, I know). The Holy Roman Empire did actually play a pivotal part in Dutch history when the treaty of Westphalia was concluded in 1648, which formally recognised the secession of the Dutch provinces from the Holy Roman Empire.

I suppose it's correct that for most Dutchmen the HRE is an illusionary entity. I don't remember the HRE being treated to a great extent from high school. I must say that for me personally it still is to a large extent; it was an empire with an emperor with virtually no power outside his own territories, and no central institutions to speak of.

Really? we in Greece learn first the entire history of the Byzantine Empire (and we have to remember all Emperors) and we have also to learn all western europe history until Luther.

I remember when it was still customary in elementary school to memorize years and associated facts ('1600 Battle of Nieuwpoort'); totally useless if you're not acquainted with the background of these events...

 

[sophie]

While I'm not Dutch royalty myself, I do have an ancestor in common with Dutch Royalty, being a descendent of Charlemagne.

But doesn't essentially every European at this point?

 

[Takhisis]

I was talking about Anandus and me, but now that you ask...

Of course, your Highness, you're incognito. Should I call you your lowness instead?

While I'm not Dutch royalty myself, I do have an ancestor in common with Dutch Royalty, being a descendent of Charlemagne.

Which, as he kinda got around, is something most of the continent can boast about…

 

[Terxpahseyton]

But doesn't essentially every European at this point?

Not everyone was as sexually active as August the Strong.
Also - finally a question which may actually matter and only one response. I expected more Well thanks anyhow

 

[Agent327]

I did not think the question serious.

While I'm not Dutch royalty myself, I do have an ancestor in common with Dutch Royalty, being a descendent of Charlemagne.

I met a semi-retired professor of law, who made the same claim... While it's not entirely impossible, it's at the same time highly unlikely that there are many descendants of Charlemagne alive today - if only because of the high rate of child mortality common to pre-medicine humanity. It is, moreover, far more likely that anyone today in, say Western Europe, is not a descendant than the opposite. Charlemagne was but a single man in his age and fathering many children was nothing special right up to modern times. And quite apart from this statistical fact, lineage wasn't recorded for most people until quite a few centuries after Charlemagen. So one may claim to be one of his descendants, but proving it is quite another matter. Which, by the way, is also why I did not think the question serious, and still don't.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I did not think the question serious.

Well, it is. I am not a "uh look at me I am making thinly veiled insinuations that I consume illegal subsistences - Ain't I cool and hipp and stuff" - dude. Got over that kind of stuff somewhere along puberty. It is for me and I know many others a serious concern.

 

[mayor]

Not everyone was as sexually active as August the Strong.
Also - finally a question which may actually matter and only one response. I expected more Well thanks anyhow

I didn't have much to add to JELEEN's answer, really

 

[Gigaz]

I have a question: Do you own a travel trailer?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I didn't have much to add to JELEEN's answer, really

But aren't there complex politics going on somehow?

 

[dutchfire]

The current cabinet (ie. the CDA/VVD/PVV backed cabinet, which no longer has a majority in the lower house and which will soon be replaced) wants to keep the Wietpas, so basically introduce it nationally in januari '13. However by that time likely/hopefully the new VVD/PvdA will have formed. I don't know if they intend to keep the Wietpas. The liberal part of the VVD should be opposed, but the Law and Order part of the party seems to have the upper hand and they wrongfully think the Wietpas will reduce criminality.

Speaking of which, as everyone with half a brain anticipated, the Wietpas has increased problems in the south where it has already been introduced. Therefor mayors from that area have asked for it to stop and have warned against introducing it nationally. Detail: The mayor of Maastricht, the largest town in the far south and also the place with the largest drug tourism problems, has been one of the most vocal opponents of the Wietpas, and he is actually a member of the VVD.

Since mayors control the local police, there is some chance that if the Wietpas is pushed to become national, that mayors will just order their police department not to control for it, which would make our entire drugs legislation even more of a mess.

So yeah, there is quite a soap going on, but hopefully the new coalition will just do away with the whole thing, making it a footnote in history.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Thanks, that was informative But I am confused. There is a common political principles, which says that when in doubt, federal law overrules regional law. Superior and inferior law. However, there are also known cases where there aer certain things for which federal law holds only as long as regional law doesn't overrule it.
How is the situation in the Netherlands that majors could just take the piss at federal law?

 

[Agent327]

They are not 'taking a piss'. If national (we don't have federal) laws are practically impossible to enforce - or even counterproductive, as in this case, it is at the discretion of local law enforcement what actually will be enforced. That is not really a legal matter, but a matter of available personnel. Already many traffic violations are handled by computer, not by police officers patrolling the streets. And I seriously doubt this is a typical Dutch situation. Which laws will be enforced in practice will always depend on available police officers to enforce specific laws. (A typical example would be the impracticality of strict enforcement of gun laws in the US - which has a huge illegal arms traffic. By contrast, gun-related crime is still - luckily - rather exception than rule in the Netherlands. Arms possession is strictly regulated and there no large small arms manufacturers - at least not in the Netherlands themselves.)

Well, it is. I am not a "uh look at me I am making thinly veiled insinuations that I consume illegal subsistences - Ain't I cool and hipp and stuff" - dude. Got over that kind of stuff somewhere along puberty. It is for me and I know many others a serious concern.

I see we are referring to different questions. But the 'weedpass' question I already answered in a previous post.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Ah, so the national government or some other higher political instance can not tell the local executive what to do. Can not tell its police what to do. Am I getting this right? Do you even have a national police force? What then is it used for?

 

[dutchfire]

Well, I guess the situation can best be described by: It is complicated.

The mayor is responsible for the public order and safety in his town. This means he can do things like ban or allow demonstrations (or move them to another place/time) if safety is a concern.
Police (and fire) departments are done on a regional level. The mayors of all the towns in such a region sit in the board of this regional police department. They can prioritize what the police looks into (e.g. more traffic speed controls near a school). Of course, if you can prioritize, you can also deprioritize, so a mayor might want to instruct them not to focus too much on certain controversial issues or issues he does not find relevant for his citizens. Now, this is of course rather limited, if a mayor would tell the police not to investigate a murder then that wouldn't work out. There is quite a bit of bluff involved in this, how far can a mayor go, when will the national government intervene? I also don't know how much power the law actually gives, since these cases usually don't go to court.

For example, mayors have rather recently threatened to stop their officers from enforcing a law that would deport certain illegal kids. I think some compromise was eventually reached.

Currently, there are plans to change our regional system to a more national police, and these plans are currently becoming rather concrete, I think, but as everything, we will just have to wait to see what happens.

 

[anandus]

The problem with the Wietpas ("weed pass") is that it took the trade of soft drugs out of the well-regulated coffeeshops and onto the unregulated streets, with all the distrubances that street dealing brings (not to mention the slippery slope towards other drugs).
The original intent was to limit drug tourism and keep them out of the coffeeshops, but the effect it has had is that not only the tourists are buying on the streets, but the local customers as well, because you need to register to get the pass.
And of course not everyone is keen on being a registered drug user. Rightfully so, of course. You wouldn't want the database to leak or be hacked and your name on the internet as a drug user , or that future employers can reference the database (to mention just two examples).

I hardly ever use softdrugs, maybe three or four times a year, but if this law is upheld and from january onwards a wietpas is necessary in the whole country (also here in Amsterdam), I'm 'forced' to buy it on the street, as I don't want to be registered.