Ask a Dutchman!

[dutchfire]

Sure, just PM me.

 

[The_J]

thanks .

 

[Takhisis]

If that helps people get points off their infractions, I'll re-dutchfireise myself and learn Dutch.

 

[Arctic Daishi]

What do you think of Geert Wilders and his Party for Freedom?

Do you think their opposition to extremist Islamism sometimes goes a little too far?

 

[Tahuti]

What do you think of Geert Wilders and his Party for Freedom?

Do you think their opposition to extremist Islamism sometimes goes a little too far?

First of all, Geert Wilders doesn't just oppose extremist Islamism. He opposes Islam. However, these aren't exactly new opinions in Dutch politics since Pim Fortuyn and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (herself a former Muslim) have all criticised Islam, from a secular and liberal democratic perspective.
Geert Wilders, however, has more or less gone too far in his opposition to Islam, is quite hypocritical in his criticism of Islam as well, to the point of presenting views that are simply hostile to liberalism. He frequently excuses Christianity and other religions without arguing for a decent excuse, and targets primarily immigration from Muslim countries, which gives suspicion whether his tirades against Islam are simply thinly veiled racism.

So he and his party sucks IMO, which is probably an opinion echoed by all other Dutch CFC members. Islam as interpreted by most Muslims is indeed threatening to Democracy as Wilders claims, but so are all religions when taken literally.

 

[Agent327]

So he and his party sucks IMO, which is probably an opinion echoed by all other Dutch CFC members. Islam as interpreted by most Muslims is indeed threatening to Democracy as Wilders claims, but so are all religions when taken literally.

I'm not sure about the extent of irreligion among 2nd or 3rd generation "guest labourers", but the only anti-democratic movement currently active in the Netherlands is Geert Wilders'. His party structure is solely based on his personal authority, and while he defamates the Qu'ran as being "fascist" (an anachronism if ever there was one), in daily politics the PVV's proposals mainly target 3rd generation immigrants from primarily Muslim countries and what is perceived as "leftist legacy" (conveniently ignoring that the purposely initiated immagration starting in the late previous century was fullheartedly supported by the liberal-conservative VVD he was formerly a member of).

 

[Tahuti]

I'm not sure about the extent of irreligion among 2nd or 3rd generation "guest labourers", but the only anti-democratic movement currently active in the Netherlands is Geert Wilders'. His party structure is solely based on his personal authority, and while he defamates the Qu'ran as being "fascist" (an anachronism if ever there was one), in daily politics the PVV's proposals mainly target 3rd generation immigrants from primarily Muslim countries and what is perceived as "leftist legacy" (conveniently ignoring that the purposely initiated immagration starting in the late previous century was fullheartedly supported by the liberal-conservative VVD he was formerly a member of).

I've already raised that point that Wilders himself is guilty of many of the things he accuses Islam of.

The "Leftist legacy" Wilders criticises isn't as much the guest-worker immigration wave itself (which included Spanish, Serbs, Croats and Greeks alongside Turks and Moroccans) but rather the family reunification of Turks and Moroccans in the 1970s and 1980s, which more or less made their presence in the Netherlands permanent. Temporary immigration for economic purposes is still supported by the VVD (but not the PVV) to this day, though it mostly targets middle class university grad professionals, particularly Indian and Japanese IT professionals. Amstelveen (for non-Dutch members, that's a suburb of Amsterdam) has a lot of such "High-tech" immigrants.

 

[Agent327]

I've already raised that point that Wilders himself is guilty of many of the things he accuses Islam of.

The "Leftist legacy" Wilders criticises isn't as much the guest-worker immigration wave itself (which included Spanish, Serbs, Croats and Greeks alongside Turks and Moroccans) but rather the family reunification of Turks and Moroccans in the 1970s and 1980s, which more or less made their presence in the Netherlands permanent.

Actually, the whole idea that workers, once immigrated, would return rather than stay shows a remarkable naivité; that rarely happens. People emigrate to better jobs, not to return once they find those, but to attain a better life.

At any rate, family reunification has become significantly more difficult.

 

[Tahuti]

Actually, the whole idea that workers, once immigrated, would return rather than stay shows a remarkable naivité; that rarely happens. People emigrate to better jobs, not to return once they find those, but to attain a better life.

At any rate, family reunification has become significantly more difficult.

True. But the push towards opposing family reunification was already a significant current during the Balkenende cabinets. Honestly, it is quite ridiculous, since keeping families separate will hamper integration. There is little point in identifying yourself as Dutch (or any other nationality of the country you live in) when your closest relatives and friends live far away.

 

[innonimatu]

Actually, the whole idea that workers, once immigrated, would return rather than stay shows a remarkable naivité; that rarely happens. People emigrate to better jobs, not to return once they find those, but to attain a better life.

It does happen a lot, but only after they retire and if their origin country is not too far behind in living standards. So if the dutch government wants its immigrants to return home, better get started helping economic progress in their original countries!

 

[Takhisis]

Might as well not have ruined those countries by colonialism. Europe got rich pillaging other places, now the peopel from those places want to live in Europe. *shrug*

 

[Tahuti]

It does happen a lot, but only after they retire and if their origin country is not too far behind in living standards. So if the dutch government wants its immigrants to return home, better get started helping economic progress in their original countries!

For most Dutch people of Turkish and Moroccan descent, it is quite nonsensical to call them immigrants, since they and perhaps even their parents were born in the Netherlands.

 

[Takhisis]

But they're not white, their surnames don't start with 'van' or 'de', and they can't boast about one of their ancestors outdrinking someone ('cos Islam) or having ousted some Papists (well, the Turks might, but they're still heathens).

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Do the Dutch feel Belgium should be a part of their country?

 

[Agent327]

In short: No.

 

[Tahuti]

Do the Dutch feel Belgium should be a part of their country?

I do not. I wouldn't even support annexing only the Flemish part of Belgium.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

I do not. I wouldn't even support annexing only the Flemish part of Belgium.

Because it brings down average literacy? (like in Victoria 2)

 

[Takhisis]

I need a guide to Dutch cheeses.

 

[Tahuti]

I need a guide to Dutch cheeses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_cheese

I can confirm the existence of Old Amsterdam, despite Wikipedia saying it needs citation, though it's more a brand than a variety. You also have Beemsterkaas, which is not mentioned in the list. Also, if you want to see the capital of Dutch cheese, go to Alkmaar, famous for its cheese market.

 

[The_J]

According to the supermarkets around here, there's Gouda and nothing else.
:/