Ask a Dutchman!
- Thread starter Agent327
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mayor
Heart & Mind
I wish people would stop being so incredible touchy and overly sentimental.
commercial with naked women -> mysoginy
Black Peter -> racism
memorial for WW2 German soldiers -> antisemiet
The list is endless. Nowadays you can't say anything without pissing someone and be called something bad... it's ridiculous.
commercial with naked women -> mysoginy
Black Peter -> racism
memorial for WW2 German soldiers -> antisemiet
The list is endless. Nowadays you can't say anything without pissing someone and be called something bad... it's ridiculous.
anandus
Errorist
It doesn't have anything to do with being 'sentimental', I don't explicitily disprove of it, I just observe it as a fact.
It is intended to be racist, because that was the norm of society in the time the story was written.
And those examples of misogeny and antisemitism aren't correct, more proper parallels would be how women are often portrayed in fairytales (eg. damsels in distress), as that used to be the view in earlier times and that jews are cruel moneylenders, as was the view in the 16th century, like in the Merchant of Venice.
Fairytales and Shakespeare are forms of misogeny and antisemitism still used these days. Just like Sinterklaas is a racist play.
And about being touchy and sentimental: Isn't it the other way around?
Isn't it 'being touchy' that you are not allowed to talk about the slavery or colonial past nowadays?
mayor
Heart & Mind
I was talking about the atmosphere in general where it seems, to me, that people just try to see something bad in everything.
I know the story of Black Peter thank you, but what it was intended does not mean it still is. stretched analogy; Coca Cola was meant as a cough syrup, it isn't used with that intend today.
Black Peter is no longer the 'bad' slave/servant of a 'good' master. Peter has evolved into a skilled helper and entertainer of children. His instruments of fear, the rod and the bag, with which he'll bring you to Spain, don't play a, dominant, part anymore.
About the other examples. That where merely examples of the overreacture, irrational nature of people nowadays. I'm not saying it is, I was merely stating what groups were/are calling it.
I know the story of Black Peter thank you, but what it was intended does not mean it still is. stretched analogy; Coca Cola was meant as a cough syrup, it isn't used with that intend today.
Black Peter is no longer the 'bad' slave/servant of a 'good' master. Peter has evolved into a skilled helper and entertainer of children. His instruments of fear, the rod and the bag, with which he'll bring you to Spain, don't play a, dominant, part anymore.
About the other examples. That where merely examples of the overreacture, irrational nature of people nowadays. I'm not saying it is, I was merely stating what groups were/are calling it.
Actually, as I already indicated, the helperfigure (which acquried blackness only in mid-19th century) isn't depicted as a "slave", not is St. Nicolas a "master". I don't know what kind of children's tales anandus has been hearing (and there may be plenty of local differences, obviously) I don't recall ever hearing such a twist to the Nicolas story. As a kid I was far more afraid of that strange bearded man who expected you to sit in his lap than the helpers who were painted black.
Whether or not the change of picture of Peter to a black helper was racist, I don't see how that makes the tradition racist all of a sudden. If black Dutchmen were affronted by this caricature figure, don't you think we'd have heard more about it? (And since it is blacks that are depicted, that seems rather more relevant than a bunch of white people being overly politically correct.) As a citizen of multicultural Amsterdam you should certainly know that the tradition is widely celebrated - although of course there is a growing tendency to emphasize Christmas these days.
Whether or not the change of picture of Peter to a black helper was racist, I don't see how that makes the tradition racist all of a sudden. If black Dutchmen were affronted by this caricature figure, don't you think we'd have heard more about it? (And since it is blacks that are depicted, that seems rather more relevant than a bunch of white people being overly politically correct.) As a citizen of multicultural Amsterdam you should certainly know that the tradition is widely celebrated - although of course there is a growing tendency to emphasize Christmas these days.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
You can't call him Sinterklaas anymore. His politically correct name is: Holiday Klaas.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I might be spending the whole summer in Enschede. What kind of questions do I need to start asking so that I may survive the horrid, cultureless, desolate wastelands that awaits?
mayor
Heart & Mind
I have you know, that I do not appreciate your choice of words with which you describe my hometown.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I have you know, that I do not appreciate your choice of words with which you describe my hometown.
WOOOT
I picked Enschede because from what I understand, for what I'm looking for it's the raddest, baddest, most awesome city in the nation.
Vibrant atmoshpere in a well designed city with lots of young university students, a hip music scene, a touch of conservative old-world Netherlands, and people speak a ton less English there than in the west.
I might have a lot of questions for you. For starters, where should I live if I just want to hang out and learn the language? I have 3 months to go from taking an intro course (that I will do next semester) to fluency. I'm going hard. How much rent should I expect to pay? What's the cost of living if I want to drink coffee in the morning and beer in the evening in a social environment?
Second, how easy is it to get ADHD prescription in the Netherlands, or bring a bunch into the EU from outside? Some countries don't care if you already have a prescription, all stimulants are out of the question.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
So you want 'the raddest, baddest, most awesome city in the nation'? Rotterdam it is.
Too many English speakers there from what they tell me, but I hear Rotterdam is truly a gem.
WOOOT
I picked Enschede because from what I understand, for what I'm looking for it's the raddest, baddest, most awesome city in the nation.
Vibrant atmoshpere in a well designed city with lots of young university students, a hip music scene, a touch of conservative old-world Netherlands, and people speak a ton less English there than in the west.
I might have a lot of questions for you. For starters, where should I live if I just want to hang out and learn the language? I have 3 months to go from taking an intro course (that I will do next semester) to fluency. I'm going hard. How much rent should I expect to pay? What's the cost of living if I want to drink coffee in the morning and beer in the evening in a social environment?
Second, how easy is it to get ADHD prescription in the Netherlands, or bring a bunch into the EU from outside? Some countries don't care if you already have a prescription, all stimulants are out of the question.
Which summer months will you be here? These people have student housing on campus (almost unique in the Netherlands!) http://www.acasa.nl/nl/
These people have rooms in the neighbourhood of Enschede http://www.sjht.nl/&lang=en_US Looking at their site and sending them an e-mail is probably a good idea.
I don't know how many people are at the university during the summer, but on the other hand, it might be easier to find a room during that period.
You can also try kamer.nl and kamernet.nl to find private rooms. Finding temporary rooms is often a bit easier than permanent ones. Your mileage may vary on these sites. You can also put an add on them saying you're looking for a room, I think.
I'm not familiar with the prices in Enschede, but in Nijmegen they are ~€300 per month. Official student housing is usually cheaper+better, but hard to get, especially if you are not registered at the local uni. If you are registered, they will usually have an international office that can help you.
People in the Netherlands make their own coffee in the morning and buy their bread and cheese at the supermarket and make sandwiches at home, which they also bring to work/school for lunch. We are cheap that way. A glass of beer (0.3l) is probably like €2, you might get one for ~€1 in a student bar. A bottle of beer in the supermarket is $0.50
Not much experience with prescription drugs, but I think if you bring a prescription from an American doctor and show it to a Dutch doctor, he will probably just give you a new recipe so you can get the stuff at the local pharmacy. If you want to be sure, you might want to call a doctor before you leave the US. I wouldn't advice bringing *a lot* of drugs with you in an air plane, they usually don't like that and you will have some explaining to do.
Make sure you figure out what to do with your health insurance! Especially if you want to work in the Netherlands (though I suppose you need a special visa for that as well, as a non-EU person?)
Hope I covered most of it, if not, ask again here or at #fiftychat if I'm there.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
awesome awesome! thanks so much, especially those cultural bits I forget to even think about like how people do their mornings. This is all very good news.
So...you have already a speed limit of 130 on the highways, so why the heck are there everywhere signs for 120? This doesn't make any freakin' sense, these 10 km less 
.
According to this, 300 to 700 are cheap.
I currently pay 330 (or so) for 14 m² with shared facilities, but I guess in this city here there's quite some lack of rooms.
.According to this, 300 to 700 are cheap.
I currently pay 330 (or so) for 14 m² with shared facilities, but I guess in this city here there's quite some lack of rooms.
And if it's a univeristy city there's a yearly influx of people looking for rooms.
As per the 130/120 km/h limits: it started as an experiment, where certain stretches of road were allowed 130 km. This has now been extended to more stretches, making for a possible overall confusion. (Especially since raising the limit by 10 km will most likely only affect oil consumption - gas for our friends overseas.) Considering such objections as "noise harassment" (not quite sure if there's an equivalent term in English)* and objections by local communities (inner city/habited areas frequently use 30 km/h and speedbumps to discourage speeding and/or cars in general) the overall speed limit is now indeed somewhat unclear.
The reason for this partial lifting of the speed limit would most likely be the fact that speeding is condoned rather than punished, especially at night. Although there are ofcourse the automated speeding check spots (which are clearly visible, so you must be blind to actually get a speeding ticket there). Or perhaps that our road and waterways ministry just loves to put traffic signs wherever possible.
* If you are familiar with Dutch highways you probably have noticed the used of sound walls/barriers in habited areas, as they are also used in Germany occasionally - if memory serves me right here.
As per the 130/120 km/h limits: it started as an experiment, where certain stretches of road were allowed 130 km. This has now been extended to more stretches, making for a possible overall confusion. (Especially since raising the limit by 10 km will most likely only affect oil consumption - gas for our friends overseas.) Considering such objections as "noise harassment" (not quite sure if there's an equivalent term in English)* and objections by local communities (inner city/habited areas frequently use 30 km/h and speedbumps to discourage speeding and/or cars in general) the overall speed limit is now indeed somewhat unclear.
The reason for this partial lifting of the speed limit would most likely be the fact that speeding is condoned rather than punished, especially at night. Although there are ofcourse the automated speeding check spots (which are clearly visible, so you must be blind to actually get a speeding ticket there). Or perhaps that our road and waterways ministry just loves to put traffic signs wherever possible.
* If you are familiar with Dutch highways you probably have noticed the used of sound walls/barriers in habited areas, as they are also used in Germany occasionally - if memory serves me right here.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Yeah, they're very quiet unless you go through one.
