Ask A Homeschooler

[nc-1701]

Trust me, unless they're in a particular field where they use it regularly, they're definetly not "intimately familiar" with those particular subjects. My mom has a masters in education, but toss her science or math subject matter beyond the 5th-6th grade level that she's taught her whole career and she's usually stuck until she does some reviewing, because it's material that she's barely touched since high school or college

Yeah, well my Dad has been a very big help to me on mathmatics type things... As well as actual computer stuff. Though your right he is much less of a help on science etc. he does however attempt (Matter of pride I guess) to stay current in scientific research on most technical fields.

And after all, how many Americans do you think actually have a parent with a masters, let alone a PhD?

Very few...

Finally, most people end up learning directly from textbooks. With there parents helping them, which is really not that differant from what goes on in a school. The teacher may not be as knowedgeable, but the teacher kid ratio is far better, and finally teachers are not that knowledgeable either... I remember one online teacher I had who would answer my math questions with "IDK?" I don't know if that's normal in public schools though...

 

[bhsup]

Assuming that your parent(s) are more or less average people, who really aren't intimately familiar with anything beyond basic science or mathematics, how do they teach you the more advanced levels of those subjects (I'm not talking about AP Calculus or etc, but normal high-school level algebra, algebra II, geometry, trig, biology, chemistry, algebra-based physics and so on)?

I realize this wasn't addressed to me, but my cousin home schools all of her children. There is a pretty comprehensive support network, at least around this area, for home schoolers. They even offer classroom instruction for the advanced courses, taught by home schooling parents who are actually trained in that field. On the example of the math you mentioned, if I remember right the math teacher for their advanced math was a retired college professer who got involved to help his grandson who was being homeschooled.

How good of an education do they get? I cannot say everyone gets the same, but I can truthfully tell you that my cousin's kids are three of the brightest and socially stable/balanced kids I have ever met. Lord knows I couldn't read and write Latin when I graduated high school.

 

[Masquerouge]

Many people are also homeschooled for religous reasons, all though that's not the case for me.

Ah, good.

Do you take classes that you don't like?

 

[Love]

What happends when you dont know the answer?

 

[nc-1701]

What happends when you dont know the answer?

Ummmm... I don't really understand the question. SAame thing that happens when you don't know in school I guess...

Ah, good.

Do you take classes that you don't like?

Yeah, I hate English...

 

[Masquerouge]

Ummmm... I don't really understand the question. SAame thing that happens when you don't know in school I guess...


Yeah, I hate English...

And are there classes that you have to take in order to validate your homeschooling?

 

[nc-1701]

And are there classes that you have to take in order to validate your homeschooling?

No, not really in some states you have to pass tests. but that's it. Of course in order to make say colleges happy you do have to take all those classes, but not legally for the state or anything.

Drivers ed being an exception, I have to take that from a private driving school if I want my license.

 

[puglover]

Ah, good.

Do you take classes that you don't like?

I'm no mathematician.

 

[Whomp]

I'm curious if you feel there are any advantages or disadvantages you'll have beyond your academic work but how you'll adjust in the workplace. Thoughts?

An educator told me her biggest concern for home schooling was thinking critically. She doesn't teach with a textbook so her students have to develop their own answers and discuss their findings. It's provoked some interesting discussions. Do you feel you miss any of this?

 

[nc-1701]

I'm curious if you feel there are any advantages or disadvantages you'll have beyond your academic work but how you'll adjust in the workplace. Thoughts?

An educator told me her biggest concern for home schooling was thinking critically. She doesn't teach with a textbook so her students have to develop their own answers and discuss their findings. It's provoked some interesting discussions. Do you feel you miss any of this?

Not really, I suppose I have somewhat less social interaction early on etc. But I don't really feel that I'll turn out any differently than my peers who went to a public school.

Well, from what I understand 99% of teachers don't do that, and just teach the book so I'm probably not missing anything. I don't really feel I miss it either I have CFC where I can disscuss, and debate many topics, I also discuss current happenings with my Dad alot. Not as school, but just because it gives us something to talk about together, and is a common interest we have.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Homeschooling is good for some people, but that sterotype is there for a reason. Most of these kids are NOT college bound. Obviously, the CFC sample is.

Well, I think you've made a faux pas there, and I challenge your conclusions. To say that most are not college bound may or may not be true (I lack knowledge, so I can't say for sure); where I was (i.e., the private school of which my homeschool was subsidiary) what you say is simply not true. The problem with the term "homeschool" is that there are very many varieties, as others have pointed out; there are religious and non-religious ones; there are some that are on-line, and others that are traditional, book-based; and there are several popular curriculum formats. You can't really compare one fairly to the others.

At any rate, in the public schools in my area, it would be fair to say that most students are not college bound. So once again, homeschooling breaks even at worst and far exceeds the standards at best.

My original statement was that it is a misconception that homeschoolers are "dumb or won't get into a good college." You yourself have agreed with that--many go to Ivy League schools. If you're going to compare the homeschooled worst to the worst of the public schools, well, I don't think that's fair, because quite frankly the worst public school students DROP OUT, while even the worst homeschoolers are likely to finish (even if barely) due to their environment. But again, this is not the point. It's just not fair to establish a stereotype and condemn every single one of us because your own personal, limited experience gives you a different feeling.

In truth, I feel there is one important point that's been raised here: homeschooling is best for a specific kind of person. If you have a child who is a troublemaker and can't get along with others, is always fighting, never gets works done, etc., then it's safe to say that you shouldn't homeschool him. He'll be in the lowest percentile anyway, though.

If, on the other hand, you have a gifted child who is quite capable of exercising self-restraint and maintaining the responsibility of scheduling his own work, then he will do very well.

I like to think of homeschooling as the perfect example of democracy. You set your own hours, shape things your way, and this large degree of freedom helps instill in you a strong sense of independence and responsibility that is just not possible in a typical public school, which for lack of a better term is like a dictatorship these days. But there are always those who abuse the system, just as in a real democracy. "Freedom is not the liberty to do as you please, but the responsibility to do as you ought."

I still have to say I believe what you said is patently wrong, and here's why: All the statistics I have seen indicate homeschoolers outperform their public (and even private) school peers. Here' an interesting study from a few years ago (it's a bit dated, admittedly, from 1999, but the facts speak for themselves).
http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v7n8/

In the commentary, it is noted that the results of this survey do not go against previous ones, such as "(Gustavsen, 1981; Mayberry, 1987; Ray, 1990, 1997; Wartes, 1988)" meaning that there's no spin-campaign going on. It's not as though all of a sudden homeschooling is portrayed as successful and good, whereas it was recognized as inferior before.

Several key points:

As shown in Table 2.8, home school parents have more formal education than the general population. While slightly less than half of the general population attended or graduated from college, almost 88% of home school students have parents who continued their education after high school.

Home school students rarely watch more than 3 hours of television per day; nearly 40% of the students nationwide watch that much television.

Also, you'll want to check out the data dealing with achievement, such as Table 3.3:

The corresponding percentiles shown in the table are the within grade percentile scores for the nation that correspond to the given scaled scores. For example, home school students in Grade 3 have a median composite scaled score of 207 which corresponds to the 81st percentile nationwide. The median home school student in third grade out- performs 81% of the third graders nationwide.

According to this table, the average homeschooled senior scores in the 86th percentile. Now, I don't know where you get your statistics, but to me this suggests homeschoolers are not exactly sub-par. If I am wrong, please show me verifiable evidence (like a scientific study) that most homeschoolers are worse off. Until then... Q.E.D.

 

[Elrohir]

Assuming that your parent(s) are more or less average people, who really aren't intimately familiar with anything beyond basic science or mathematics, how do they teach you the more advanced levels of those subjects (I'm not talking about AP Calculus or etc, but normal high-school level algebra, algebra II, geometry, trig, biology, chemistry, algebra-based physics and so on)?

Some people just figure it out. Some have friends who neighbors who specialize in this sort of thing help out. (I had a next door neighbor "teach" writing to me one year - she'd grade my papers, and give input and stuff like that, because she had a Masters in English) Others take classes with a homeschool co-op or university model school, or something like that, where you can take one or more classes. Those are often good, because you can still be homeschooled for most of your subjects, but when it comes to complex things or things that work best in a group, it's easier to get done.

What happends when you dont know the answer?

They beat you with a horsewhip. That's why we're so smart - we have to be, if we want to sit down! In all seriousness, I've never heard of a homeschool parent doing anything absurd like that; generally they just go back over it and stuff.

I'm curious if you feel there are any advantages or disadvantages you'll have beyond your academic work but how you'll adjust in the workplace. Thoughts?

An educator told me her biggest concern for home schooling was thinking critically. She doesn't teach with a textbook so her students have to develop their own answers and discuss their findings. It's provoked some interesting discussions. Do you feel you miss any of this?

I think I will definitely have an academic advantage over many of my peers. I don't claim to be a genius, but I think I am generally more knowledgeable than most of the kids my age.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think that I think critically. Of course, that could be the brainwashing. All joking aside, I don't think the average homeschooler is any more brainwashed or any less of a critical thinker than the average American of the same age.

 

[shortguy]

Matter of fact, I don't really think I've learned anything of substance in all my 12 years of public schooling

I understand that belittling public school is en vogue, but that statement is just preposterous. Am I to assume that you have poor handwriting, rudimentary reading skills, and few arithmetic skills, or were you doing calculus at age 5?

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

I was home schooled in maths for many years. My school is a few years behind me in maths.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

^^

I would stay in public school in maths. Would be easy enough.

 

[Love]

^^ Yeah......

 

[downtown]

According to this table, the average homeschooled senior scores in the 86th percentile. Now, I don't know where you get your statistics, but to me this suggests homeschoolers are not exactly sub-par. If I am wrong, please show me verifiable evidence (like a scientific study) that most homeschoolers are worse off. Until then... Q.E.D.

I haven't forgotten about you, I'm just trying to find data thats online, since I have it in books and articles.

The data I was using compared Ohio Standardized test scores and high school graduation rates of the 4 biggest "homeschool unions" (which are technically public schools, as the state pays for the equipment. A "school" manages the ciriculum, and makes sure that kids are doing their schoolwork, but the work is completed at home, and is in every other respect, homeschooled) with that of other public schools.

Ohio School Districts are given a grade from 1 to 27 on how they managed these criteria. The highest homeschool grade was 15, which would have made them one of the worst public school districts in the state.

Now, the shocker to me was the study that showed that 88% of parents who homeschool their kids have higher education. I dont think that number has been higher than 25% at any of the schools I've worked with, where broken families are by far, the norm. Internet Schooling is somwhat new in the education and homeschooling world, and becoming very popular (I havent read all of the study you gave me yet, so I'm not exactly sure how they define homeschooler), and I'm not sure if the study reflects that. I'm sure that educated parents would do a much better job homeschooling, just like students who attend public, or pirvate districts where parents are educated do far better. Community Education levels are prob. the single best indicator of how likley a school district is to succeed...even more so than income.

I agree, I think homeschooling has a place in education, and is best for some people, namely, the very bright and talents who live in districts where public school are awful, and privates cannot be afforded. I do worry that homeschooling, does not develop leadership or social skills very well, unless the parents are very involved, and get the student in other groups, like it appears Elihor does.

I do not think it is superior though. When avaible, Charter, Magent and Private schools, I think, do a better job at educating the "whole" student than a homeschool experience would. I do not have enough confidence in the parents.

 

[Sophie 378]

I'll join this thread too! I was home educated until I was ten, when we moved out of London, to a place where they actually spent at least some of the lesson times teaching rather than attempting to keep order. It was great - I had no schedule at all. Nothing. The only thing I was made to do was a few pages of sums when the parents suddenly realised that we didn't have any maths books. They taught me to read, and we had some French tapes and videos, but other than that it was pretty much just setting me free on our thousands of books. They'd explain stuff when I asked, * and take me to museums, and tell me about what they were doing and we were seeing, and so on. All my teachers have commented on my extraordinary bredth of general knowledge, and I did very well in school (getting an A- is a failure in my book), but I have to admit I'm a bit socially inept. My sister and I were taken to groups for French, music and drama, but we didn't have the everyday socialising that I think children probably need to learn to be a member of society rather than just a participant.

* My parents are both doctors, and my mother's an ex-teacher as well (with two degrees), so they could answer almost any question I could think of. Any that they couldn't, they could find a book that would help.

 

[Elrohir]

@downtown

Matt, have you considered that maybe those who use satellite schools exclusively, or for the majority of their work aren't representative of the homeschool movement as a whole? That would explain the disconnect. I only know a few people who use satellite curriculum at all, and generally it's just for one or two classes. It sounds to me like you're looking at a specific subset of homeschoolers, and then extrapolating what you've observed out for all homeschoolers, which isn't fair to the rest. That would explain the disconnect between your experiences, and the gathered data on the movement as a whole.

 

[puglover]

And are there classes that you have to take in order to validate your homeschooling?

Not in Kansas. But I have to have a transcript ready if I want to get into college.